Author Topic: Re: Philly/Trenton-area tomato pie (Split Topic)  (Read 32751 times)

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Online Pete-zza

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Re: Philly/Trenton-area tomato pie (Split Topic)
« Reply #50 on: June 12, 2007, 06:42:34 PM »
trying to think what else I need.

Joe,

You should get a good set of measuring cups and spoons if you don't already have them, and a few spatulas. A good instant read thermometer will also be useful. If and when you become addicted to pizza making, you may end up like many of us who purchased IR thermometers. Otherwise I think you have identified the gear you will want to have to make the De Lorenzo type of pizza. If you later migrate to other kinds of pizzas, there are other items you might want to purchase, but for now I think you are in pretty good shape with the basics.

Peter


Offline MTPIZZA

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Re: Philly/Trenton-area tomato pie (Split Topic)
« Reply #51 on: June 13, 2007, 02:36:36 PM »
Joey, yes I definately think DeLorenzos uses some sort of wild yeast for leavening, this is why they have their unique flavor as well as the other ingrediants they use.

Offline JoeyBagadonuts

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Re: Philly/Trenton-area tomato pie (Split Topic)
« Reply #52 on: June 13, 2007, 03:24:57 PM »
Joey, yes I definately think DeLorenzos uses some sort of wild yeast for leavening, this is why they have their unique flavor as well as the other ingrediants they use.

Well, I guess you can buy wild yeast or do it at home.
I am wondering if they start their own back in the 1930's and maybe use a starter of some sort. Is that possible?

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Re: Philly/Trenton-area tomato pie (Split Topic)
« Reply #53 on: June 13, 2007, 05:38:57 PM »
MTPIZZA,

I hear you, but I am still having a difficult time getting my mind around the process. Maybe if I walk through my thought processes, something will come back to you.

In thinking through this subject in relation to a commercial operation, I would think that the easiest way of introducing flavors into a dough, along with some collateral textural and aroma attributes, would be to use scrap dough in the new dough. The scrap dough could even be the regular dough that was set aside from the rest of the dough for several days in order to intensify the contributions of that dough when added to the additional ingredients of flour, water, salt, yeast, etc. to make the dough as part of the final mix. Normally, this scrap dough would use commercial yeast, as would the final dough as a separate addition, since the leavening power of the scrap dough would be diminished after several days. This method would have the advantage that it would be easy to instruct workers, especially low-cost labor, how to make the dough reliably and consistently. And one could perhaps use a lot of the scrap dough in the process of making the final dough from which the pizzas are to be made, with corresponding increases in the flavor, texture and aroma profiles of the finished dough and pizza.

If the scrap dough method is ruled out because it uses commercial yeast, that means that one would also have to rule out the classic preferments like poolish, sponge and biga because they are also based on using commercial yeast. Classic old dough (and chef and pate fermentee) methods based on using commercial yeast would also have to be ruled out.

I think this pretty much leaves us with two methods, a “natural” old dough method and a mother dough method, both of which are based on using wild yeast. Both of these forms were described briefly by pizzanapoletana (Marco) in one of his early posts on this forum. I have excerpted below (in italics) the part of Marco’s post on this aspect. As will be noted in the excerpted portion, Marco prefers the mother dough method, which is a direct method, to the natural old dough method, which is an indirect method.

The old dough method, is a way of using a piece of acidified dough from the previous batch (thus including salt and usually made with a natural wild yeast starter otherwise doesn't have leavening power). When using a culture starter from another regions, like the Italians one, I strongly recommend not to use the old dough method, but instead the Mother dough method.

In the mother dough method, a piece of dough made with only water and flour plus the culture starter, is refreshed with a 50% addition of water and flour, and after is left to ferment for a minimum time of 3-6 hours, a piece is cut off (the dauther) and used as fermenting agent or in large quantity as preferment. This way, thanks to the strong innoculating of the original mother dough into the refreshment, there is a better chance to avoid contaminations.
(http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,861.msg8679.html#msg8679, Reply 10). (Note: “dauther” in the above excerpt is intended to be “daughter”)

As between these two methods, I believe the old dough method would most likely be the easier one to implement in a pizzeria such as De Lorenzo’s, especially if contamination issues are not of concern and also if the dough preparation is to be done by low-cost labor. What I don’t have a good grasp of is how effective this method is for making dough on one day to be used the next, especially if the dough out of the mixer is left to ferment (presumably at room temperature), punched down, and then refrigerated, as previously described in relation to the De Lorenzo operation. The two times I used this method it took over a day of fermentation/ripening of the dough, at room temperature, to get a usable dough. Admittedly, my starter culture was not wildly active to begin with, so that may have been the reason I didn’t achieve great success with that method. That may also be the reason why some bakers, even artisan bakers, add a bit of commercial yeast to their natural starters and preferments. In my case, I went to the direct method or variations of it.

Peter
« Last Edit: June 04, 2010, 08:13:08 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline JoeyBagadonuts

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Re: Philly/Trenton-area tomato pie (Split Topic)
« Reply #54 on: June 13, 2007, 07:54:43 PM »

"The two times I used this method it took over a day of fermentation/ripening of the dough, at room temperature, to get a usable dough. Admittedly, my starter culture was not wildly active to begin with, so that may have been the reason I didn’t achieve great success with that method."


Peter,

What was your results with this type of crust?


In the Old Dough method described above, what does "acidified dough" mean?

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Re: Philly/Trenton-area tomato pie (Split Topic)
« Reply #55 on: June 13, 2007, 10:11:54 PM »
Joe,

When I went to find the posts in which I discussed this subject, I discovered that I made and discussed three pizzas using the natural old dough method in one form or another, not two. The posts, along with photos, are these:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,986.msg9547.html#msg9547 (Reply 55),
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,986.msg9680.html#msg9680 (Reply 63), and http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,986.msg10000.html#msg10000 (Reply 64).

One of the things you should keep in mind in reading the above posts is that I was using 00 flour, which is an imported relatively low protein Italian flour that does not brown well when used to make doughs (mainly Neapolitan style doughs) that are to be baked in a conventional home oven. The crust browning would be much more pronounced if a U.S. style high protein flour were to be used. Also, I was feeling my way around with my experiments especially since there wasn’t much available on the forum or elsewhere to guide me. Even flying blind I ended up with some very good tasting pizzas. But I never felt I mastered the process to call it a big success, which to me means being in control of the process, not the other way around.

FWIW, according to notes that I prepared during one of my visits (9/16/06) to Una Pizza Napoletana in NYC, Anthony Mangieri was then using (or so he said) a combination of a natural old dough and a natural starter. Even his times were long. He told me that he was using a natural starter, based on wild NYC yeast, which he refreshed every 24 hours. After 24 hours, he would combine some of the natural starter with old dough and let that ferment for 24 hours more. I can't say that he is still using that regimen. Anthony is asked about his methods so much by people who want to do something similar to what he is doing that it is possible that he was trying to throw me off of the scent. I would perhaps do the same if I was in his shoes. I think you now can see why I keep probing what De Lorenzo's is doing in its dough making.

As to your question about an acidified dough, during the fermentation process, whether using commercial yeast or wild yeast, there are several organic acids (e.g., acetic acid, lactic acid, propionic acid, etc.) that are produced in the dough in the presence of bacteria (primarily lactobacillus) that ultimately contribute to the flavor and aroma of the finished crust. Usually, the greater the amount of the starter or preferment used, the greater the production of such acids, and the greater their effect on the finished dough into which the acidified dough is introduced as part of the final mix.

Peter

Offline MTPIZZA

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Re: Philly/Trenton-area tomato pie (Split Topic)
« Reply #56 on: June 14, 2007, 07:30:24 AM »
Peter after reading your post, I feel they must be using the Marco approach to their dough method. They clearly do not use 00 Caputo flour I would know that flour anywhere, and you can tell by the pictures posted that they use some other type of flour. As for the leavening from old dough if they kept a large batch on the side replenishing it daily I would find that there would be more than enough to keep the dough making process going. I remember a post on youtube where a breadmaker had a very large plastic tub where he took off the lid and there was a spongy mass sticking to the top. When mixing his dough he pulled out a hunk but didn't use all of it.. just a portion and put it into the mixer. Therefore he still had plenty to refresh and let sit for the next days use. When I'm making my dough I just cut off a sticky spongey piece and put in my flour with water, salt , a little sugar and away I go... I still have more than half of my original culture to add to and have ready for the next time. Its not a matter of not having enough so much as it is a matter of just keeping it going by refreshing with more flour and water only.
DeLorenzo must just keep a couple days worth going... one day is ripening while another that has been resting is used... But since we really have no way of seeing the process I guess maybe they supplement with a little yeast... but I swear I don't smell any in the finished product.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2007, 07:34:03 AM by MTPIZZA »

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Re: Philly/Trenton-area tomato pie (Split Topic)
« Reply #57 on: June 14, 2007, 08:36:01 AM »
But since we really have no way of seeing the process I guess maybe they supplement with a little yeast... but I swear I don't smell any in the finished product.

MTPIZZA,

I once spoke to one of the bakers at the highly regarded NYC Sullivan Street Bakery, which has become famous worldwide (thanks to the internet) for its No Knead dough method, and he confessed to me during my cross examination that they add a small amount of IDY to their natural starters used to make sourdough bread, for which they are held in high esteem. Apparently there is a commercial reason for doing this, such as shortening the fermentation time or because of concerns over the reliability of natural starters if used alone. In the latter vein, I once read that Anthony Mangieri at UPN was unable to open his establishment on a couple of occasions because of problems with his naturally fermented dough. When I subsequently asked him about that, he said that it was not true. But I still wonder.

Peter

Offline JoeyBagadonuts

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Re: Philly/Trenton-area tomato pie (Split Topic)
« Reply #58 on: June 14, 2007, 04:16:53 PM »
Alls I can say is WHOA!

Alot of information.

I need to find out how they are doing it. There has got to be a way to get the scoop on what they are doing.

MTPIZZA,

How did you obtain a piece of raw dough from them?
I know the run of the mill pizza shop will sell you some dough, but i dont think Delorenzo's will.
If it was possible to obtain a pies worth of raw dough, and assuming there is yeast in it, I am wondering if I would be able to try the old dough method to try and replicate.


Offline JoeyBagadonuts

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Re: Philly/Trenton-area tomato pie (Split Topic)
« Reply #59 on: June 14, 2007, 04:20:48 PM »
Maybe I can bribe one of the waiter boys.

Maybe I need to go to the spy shop to see if they have any cameras on a bendable wire, so when I sit in the back by the kitchen I can shimmy it around the corner.

Offline scott r

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Re: Philly/Trenton-area tomato pie (Split Topic)
« Reply #60 on: June 14, 2007, 05:34:43 PM »
Joey, like many of us here on the forum who have persued copying our favorite pizzerias dough, you may be surprised to find out that they are not doing anything special.  Most pizzerias are so bad with their dough management that they make the places that are just simply doing everything right (without any secret recipes) look like gods. Add to that a pizzeria that is actually willing to spend the money to crank their oven up to 650, or use a coal oven and you have our destination pizzerias.  It is actually surprising to me how few pizzerias fit this mold, and obviously DeLorenzo's is one of them.

A properly mixed well fermented dough made with bakers yeast is probably what they are producing. I actually would be quite shocked to find out that they are really using wild yeast.  This is the case with all of the famous pizzerias I have dissected (sally's, Patsy's, pepe's, grimaldi's, totonno's etc.)

If they are really using a wild yeast culture it will be very obvious if you taste an uncooked piece of dough they have given you.  Bring the dough home and put it in the fridge for safe keeping (in case they do use wild yeast and you want to culture it later).  take a tiny little piece of the dough and leave it out on your counter to rise.  When it has stopped rising (probably within a few hours of them giving it to you), taste it.  If it is really sour they are using wild yeast.  If it is just a tiny bit sour or not at all they are using commercial yeast.

When my dough using wild yeast reaches the end if its rise it burns your tongue with the acidic sour flavor.

Offline JoeyBagadonuts

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Re: Philly/Trenton-area tomato pie (Split Topic)
« Reply #61 on: June 14, 2007, 07:28:01 PM »
Man,
everyone seems to believe something different. Some think bakers yeast, some think wild, some think no yeast at all.

Here is a question. Could it be possible that they add the yeast and only allow it to rise a very short period of time? Wha t type of effect would this have on the dough and the finished crust? Would the dough be even stretchable? Would it get a nice dark brown crust?

Whatever they are doing, I bet it is really simple. If we just knew the ingredients we would be on our way. But of course there are lots of other factors to figure in.
I am starting to wonder since this recipe is from the 1930's, if they created this pie using a typical home oven and started using a commercial oven when they opened up shop. This also raises some questions of what sort of ingredients were available back then. Did they even have all these different types and grades of flours back then. what were the popular yeasts used back then? etc....

Someone mentioned that the crust and dough did not have a yeast smell or flavor at all and when i was browsing the flour aisle at the grocery store I thought about this when I looked down at a bag of Gold Medal Self-Rising flour. And I thought to myself, "Could it even be possible?".
« Last Edit: June 14, 2007, 07:29:41 PM by JoeyBagadonuts »

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Re: Philly/Trenton-area tomato pie (Split Topic)
« Reply #62 on: June 14, 2007, 08:56:21 PM »
Here is a question. Could it be possible that they add the yeast and only allow it to rise a very short period of time? What type of effect would this have on the dough and the finished crust? Would the dough be even stretchable? Would it get a nice dark brown crust?

Joe,

I assume in the material quoted above that you are talking about commercial yeast. In that case, yes, it would be possible to make a dough to be used within a few hours. However, to get sufficient fermentation and volume (rise) in the dough, you would have to use a fair amount of yeast, usually multiples of the normal amount. It is also common in these circumstances to use warmer water than usual. What you have basically described is what is known among pizza operators as an "emergency" or "short term" dough. It is typically made when an operator runs out of dough or something happens to their regular dough that makes it unusable. The finished crust will usually be on the light side and the crumb will be breadlike. There will not be as much flavor and other positive attributes as a crust made from a dough that has been fermented for a much longer time because there is too little time for the biochemical activity in the dough to produce the byproducts of fermentation that are responsible for the flavor, crust, texture and aroma of the finished crust and crumb.

To give you a better idea of what I am talking about, you might take a look at Replies 407 and 408 and related photos at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,576.msg27251.html#msg27251. For a more recent article on emergency doughs, see the Tom Lehmann Q&A toward the bottom of the page at http://www.pmq.com/mag/20070607/article.php?story=lehmann. If De Lorenzo's is in fact using cold fermentation of its doughs, they would not be making emergency doughs.

Flours have changed dramatically since the 30's due to technological and agricultural advances, so today's flours are much better than was used back in the 30's, with many more choices than were available back then. Even in the 70's, the most common flour used for pizzas was all-purpose flour and, to a somewhat lesser degree, bread flour. High-gluten flour was available but it was used more for applications like bagels rather than for pizza dough. Today, high-gluten flour may well be the most common flour used to make NY style pizzas. Yeast preferences also evolved over time, starting with fresh yeast and migrating to active dry yeast (ADY) and, finally, instant dry yeast (IDY). All three forms are still in use today, but fresh yeast is in decline and being increasingly replaced by ADY and IDY.

I can assure you that De Lorenzo's is not using self-rising flour. Self-rising flour contains a chemical leavening agent (baking powder, plus a bit of salt) and is not normally used for making pizza doughs of the type we have been discussing.

Peter

EDIT (1/25/13): Since the link to the above Lehmann Q&A is no longer operative, see the Wayback Machine link to the same item at http://web.archive.org/web/20080121183450/http://www.pmq.com/mag/20070607/article.php?story=lehmann
« Last Edit: January 25, 2013, 11:47:08 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline JoeyBagadonuts

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Re: Philly/Trenton-area tomato pie (Split Topic)
« Reply #63 on: June 14, 2007, 09:08:00 PM »
Well, back to the limited grades of flour and types of yeast back in the 1930's.  I came across an article in which they stated that the recipe has not changed. So, over time, if they were to start using different flours and different grades of yeast, wouldnt this yield a different product? After reading that, I assume they are still using the very ingedients they started with back in the 1930's. Whats Active Dry Yeast or Instant Yeast available back then? Was the most common flour all-purpose?
Someone stated that they thought the dough had an eggy smell to it. I think it was MTPIZZA. Would using an egg give it that deep brown color?

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Re: Philly/Trenton-area tomato pie (Split Topic)
« Reply #64 on: June 14, 2007, 09:49:40 PM »
Joe,

Just because the recipe (which is simply a list of ingredients) remained the same does not mean that the implementations of the ingredients didn't change. Products change all the time, and products come and go, so pizza operators are often left with little choice but to adapt and make substitutions if they plan on staying in business. I would say that the likelihood of getting the identical ingredients today that were used back in the 30's is zero. They just don't exist anymore, and were replaced by newer and better products. I would venture to say that De Lorenzo's pizzas are better today than they were in the 30's.

Dry forms of yeast were invented starting sometime in the 40's. Before then, fresh yeast was what bakers used. Some operators still prefer fresh yeast, for a variety of reasons, including personal taste preference and cost (fresh yeast is the cheapest of the three forms if used in large enough volume). The American Institute of Baking conducted tests using all three forms of yeast in doughs and couldn't detect any differences in their performance. There are applications where one form of yeast may offer advantages over another, so all three forms of yeast are available for those applications. 

Eggs will indeed provide increased crust coloration. Some pizza operators use eggs, but such use is falling out of favor because of potential cross-contamination issues and because health inspectors frown on such use. Eggs are a very expensive way of getting more color in a crust, even if dry forms (which are OK with inspectors) are used. Most operators use some form of sugar (usually sucrose, or table sugar), or dried dairy whey, or dry milk products if they are after increased crust color. I don't think De Lorenzo's needs eggs or whey or dry milk products to get more color in its crusts. In fact, at too high levels, these ingredients can cause excessive bottom crust browning, and even blackening, when used in doughs that are baked at very high temperatures in a typical deck oven.

Peter

Offline scott r

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Re: Philly/Trenton-area tomato pie (Split Topic)
« Reply #65 on: June 14, 2007, 10:22:22 PM »
Man,
everyone seems to believe something different. Some think bakers yeast, some think wild, some think no yeast at all.

Joey, they are either using commercial yeast or wild yeast,  no yeast is impossible from the pictures I have seen, and there is no way they are using baking powder.   Just buy a dough ball, taste it raw, and you will know if it is commercial or wild yeast. 

Offline JoeyBagadonuts

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Re: Philly/Trenton-area tomato pie (Split Topic)
« Reply #66 on: June 14, 2007, 10:48:17 PM »
Joey, they are either using commercial yeast or wild yeast,  no yeast is impossible from the pictures I have seen, and there is no way they are using baking powder.   Just buy a dough ball, taste it raw, and you will know if it is commercial or wild yeast. 

They are not your typical pizzeria. I highly doubt they are going to let you just by the dough.
Someone on here, I think MTPIZZA, said her obtained a piece of scrap dough from their somehow. I would like to know how he got it.


Offline MTPIZZA

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Re: Philly/Trenton-area tomato pie (Split Topic)
« Reply #67 on: June 15, 2007, 07:18:35 AM »
Our family has been going to DeLorenzos since the 40's, I grew up on this pizza. They used to have high back wooden booths, served Kerns soda..(their cream soda was heaven, but Kerns I believe is out of business). Their pizza was light and delicious, we would all fight over the crusts edges so we could rub and eat them in the oil left on the pizza tray. My father once coaxed Chic one of the brothers to sell him a dough ball. When we got it home we foolishly baked it up in our regular oven and the pizza was amazing even coming from a conventional home electric oven. We didn't think to save a piece of raw dough and culture it. Years passed---and a little while back while having a pizza there I asked Eileen (owners daughter) if she would sell me raw dough, she refused. I understood and didn't think bad of it, they just don't sell them. Then while paying at the register, I happen to get talking to the kid who was helping Gary flatten the doughs, while we were talking he was cutting and trimming a piece of dough around the edges and was holding the scraps in his hand. I started talking to him about why he was cutting away some of the dough and while talking he threw me a big piece joking that one of the guys in the back eats the dough raw... I couldn't believe it -- I had a piece of raw dough in my hands a gift from above!
I placed it into the pizza box with my takehome leftovers and when I got home I started my own dough buy diluting with distilled water and adding fresh flour a little at a time.. it started leavening immediatly but slowly... by the third day or so, I had the prize dough which I can attest, whatever yeast it is...wild from Italy all those years ago or whatever --it has amazing flavor. So through strictly innocent means I was able to obtain my own slice of heaven so to speak.

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Re: Philly/Trenton-area tomato pie (Split Topic)
« Reply #68 on: June 15, 2007, 08:23:06 AM »
Peter, I have replicated the pies but it is only my own recipe and I can't vouch for what they do to make their dough. I only know what I smelled from the raw piece I had obtained to make my mother dough with. I use a standard recipe for one 12 inch pie... 3/4 C flour, 1/4 cup mother dough, 1/2 Cup + or minus water pinch of sugar and 1/2 tsp salt... mix rise in fridge a day or two...

MTPIZZA,

Have you ever used the above dough recipe, or any other using your De Lorenzo's cultured starter, to make a pizza with a crust that is crispy/crackery and of a comparable thickness to the De Lorenzo crust? I don't know how you measure out your flour and water and I don't know the composition of your starter in terms of percent flour and percent water, but I estimate that your recipe makes around 6 ounces of dough. For a 12" pizza, that would mean a thickness factor of a bit over 0.05, which would be very thin. Does a crust based on that recipe bake up with a crispiness and thickness comparable to a De Lorenzo crust? If so, what is the bake methodology you are using? You may have already mentioned this, but what kind of flour are you using?

Also, does your dough rise while in ther refrigerator or do you let it rise at room temperature for a while, then reshape and refrigerate, as some say is the method used by De Lorenzo's?

Peter
« Last Edit: June 15, 2007, 08:30:31 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline MTPIZZA

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Re: Philly/Trenton-area tomato pie (Split Topic)
« Reply #69 on: June 15, 2007, 08:41:47 AM »
Peter, yes I used to make my pies using the Crimaldi yeast obtained from sourdough.com and had good results but not DeLorenzo. My method is simple though I must admit I have not used my digital scale in a long time -- I do it by feel. I simply scoop 3/4 Cup of AP flour add about a 2 Tbls of semolina flour, 1/4 cup approx of the DeLorenzo starter dough from the frig. add about 1tsp. salt, pinch of sugar and add 1/2 Cup of distilled water (some of the moisture comes from the starter dough in the final mix) I don't know the hydration of the starter dough but as stated before its like a wet/spongey mass. Yes you are correct I make about a 12 inch individual pie. The dough is then put in the fridge for a day or two, I have even gone longer and the longer in the fridge the better formation of the little crisp bubbles on the crust edge which I like. It imparts a nice crispness when taking a bite. I make a thin pie although not as thin as a cracker would be. It looks like a thin crust pizza with a good edge. The final pie is not bready but is brown with nice chew and crust.
For baking I have moved away from my kitchen oven in favor of my trusty Pizza Bella I have modified which can get above 700 degrees.

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Re: Philly/Trenton-area tomato pie (Split Topic)
« Reply #70 on: June 15, 2007, 09:17:19 AM »
I simply scoop 3/4 Cup of AP flour add about a 2 Tbls of semolina flour, 1/4 cup approx of the DeLorenzo starter dough from the frig. add about 1tsp. salt, pinch of sugar and add 1/2 Cup of distilled water

MTPIZZA,

How close to a De Lorenzo pie have you come using the above recipe and your modified Pizza Bella oven? It would seem that 1) with your obvious fondness for the De Lorenzo pie, 2) your possession of a cultured De Lorenzo dough, 3) your knowledge of De Lorenzo types of ingredients, and 4) the availability of a high bake temperature, you would be in the best position to come closest to making a De Lorenzo clone. And, possibly, to instruct others how to do it.

BTW, adding in the semolina, I estimate the dough thickness factor for your formulation to be closer to 0.06.

Peter

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Re: Philly/Trenton-area tomato pie (Split Topic)
« Reply #71 on: June 15, 2007, 11:11:14 AM »
I placed it into the pizza box with my takehome leftovers and when I got home I started my own dough buy diluting with distilled water and adding fresh flour a little at a time.. it started leavening immediatly

The fact that this dough started leavening immediately makes me think you really do have wild yeast there.  This is great news, and certainly explains why this pizza is so good.  Congratulations on acquiring what must be a very old and reliable starter!  This means I have to make a trip to Philly now!

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Re: Philly/Trenton-area tomato pie (Split Topic)
« Reply #72 on: June 15, 2007, 01:57:00 PM »
Just by observing what or how they make their pies in DeLorenzos is nothing really special but they do have an order for things. After the crust is spread out with semolina side down, the shredded cheese goes on next. Then there is a bucket with the sauce. They ladle from the large bucket into a smaller pyrex measuring cup the sauce. I imagine this keeps the portions close for each pie.
Then from this glass measuring cup they use a plastic spoon type ladle to apply the sauce over the pie. If you notice in the pictures the tomatoes are sitting on top of the cheese and very even distribution. Then lastly they use an olive oil can the ones  with the long tapered spouts and they swirl the oil over all evenly. They don't usually apply oregano unless you ask for it. But they do sprinkle a hint of graded parmesean cheese- just a dusting over the pie. Then into that hot oven. When a pie comes out its bubbling like crazy as they put it on the pizza pan for cutting with a knife. They cut straight across then two more cuts horizontally which produces uneven slices-- and they are square on the one end not pointed like conventional slices would be. I try and duplicate the above as close as I can when I make my pies. The only thing a homeowner would have trouble with is the high temp for the oven.. which seems to be the curse of making pies at home..

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Re: Philly/Trenton-area tomato pie (Split Topic)
« Reply #73 on: June 15, 2007, 08:18:40 PM »
In between all the gabbing we have been doing on the De Lorenzo tomato pie, I was in my kitchen reinvigorating my Italian Ischia starter and making first and second generation doughs. The first generation dough was made using the Ischia starter. Subsequently, a piece of that dough was used to leaven the second generation dough from which I made my first 12" De Lorenzo clone tomato pie, as shown below. No commercial yeast was used.

Peter

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Re: Philly/Trenton-area tomato pie (Split Topic)
« Reply #74 on: June 15, 2007, 08:22:20 PM »
...and in slice form



 

pizzapan