Author Topic: Re: Philly/Trenton-area tomato pie (Split Topic)  (Read 33598 times)

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Online Pete-zza

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Re: Philly/Trenton-area tomato pie (Split Topic)
« Reply #125 on: July 09, 2007, 03:37:37 PM »
Just out of curiosity...the recipe/formula you used.....in cups...how many "cups" of flour do you start with....? I used 3 cups to make a batch; usually good for 2.5 pies....but, I 'm just trying to understand your proportions without gettting out a scale.......can you provide a dummy-proof translation?

beaunehead,

I used to fairly routinely convert weights of flours in my dough formulations to volume measurements until forum member November informed me in a PM that my conversions were inaccurate. I was careful in making the conversions (I used the method recommended by King Arthur), and I even double-checked the conversions for accuracy before posting, but it appears that I was on the “light” side on my conversions. Since I did not want to mislead anyone, I stopped doing those conversions and stated only the weights in the dough formulations I posted. November shortly thereafter rose to the challenge and created a tool that can be used to make weight-to-volume conversions for several different ingredients, including several brands and types of flour. The tool is the one I now use, and it can be accessed at http://foodsim.toastguard.com/ (the tool is the one on the left-hand side).

For purposes of using the tool, you may want to use the Gold Medal all-purpose flour from the pull-down menu as a proxy for the Pillsbury all-purpose flour that I used. The tool has a default value, which is what I use, but you can enter your own values if you’d like. To measure out the flour from your flour container after determining the volume measurements from the tool for the flour quantity I posted in the last dough formulation (5.77 ounces), you should first stir the flour in the container to loosen it, then lift the flour from the container to your measuring cup(s), using a tablespoon or something similar, and when the measuring cup is filled to slightly overflowing, level the top of the measuring cup with the flat edge of a kitchen knife or something equivalent. I do much the same with measuring spoons but just dip the measuring spoons into the flour and then level. You shouldn’t shake or tamp the measuring cup(s). I think you can now see why I prefer to use a scale to measure out weights of ingredients, and flour in particular.

You will note that the tool works in both directions—to convert mass (weight) to volume, and to convert volume to weight. I use the tool all the time when converting ingredients specified in recipes by volumes to weights. I do the same with water. The results then enable me to derive the baker’s percents and use one or more of the dough calculating tools.

If you need help with November’s tool, let me know. I can also help you with the dough formulation for any particular size of pizza, and for any particular number of pizzas that you'd like to make.

BTW, were you able to learn what kind of yeast is used at De Lorenzo’s? And what was on the pizza you had in the way of toppings?

Peter
« Last Edit: March 12, 2013, 11:28:00 AM by Pete-zza »


Offline lilbuddypizza

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Re: Philly/Trenton-area tomato pie (Split Topic)
« Reply #126 on: July 09, 2007, 04:26:09 PM »
Haven't been on this (or any other) boards for a while because i've been busy with my new bakery (a good thing).  I saw this topic today only because i'm on vacation and thought i'd reply.  Tomato pie has been a staple of the bakery that i now own since 1940 or earlier.  The slices are square and it is cheeseless.   I have never been a huge tomato pie fan.  slices of flavorless dough with a pasty tomato topping.  I decided to embrace the "tomato pie" and make a REALLY good one:  Dough thick but light and airy, crust crisp, and a rich sauce thats flavorful without being so overspiced that it stays with you all day.  The response has been overwhelming and has kept me busy.  Its become a huge part of what we sell and we also offer other flavor selections as well.  I'll post some pics.
     Just for laughs, I ran a pizza shop (not mine) that sold traditional round pies for years and it was alway a problem finding a mozz that was good and affordable.  My new place is situated 2 blocks from a mozz and ricotta factory which is good AND affordable..........and no one wants cheese on the pies.  WTF!!

MAN! Looks tasty..... ;D

Offline beaunehead

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Re: Philly/Trenton-area tomato pie (Split Topic)
« Reply #127 on: July 09, 2007, 05:00:52 PM »
BTW, were you able to learn what kind of yeast is used at De Lorenzo’s? And what was on the pizza you had in the way of toppings?

No....I have never asked. I had one with tomatoes and cheese; the other had sausage and onions on top of the others...

and, I did notice that that the oiling of the toppings is done also before the first stage in the oven....and at the time of the "second" baking....

you never know...you could call there, tell them you're nowhere nearby and heard the place was "chosen" No. 2 in the whole usa by the authors of the book, Everybody Loves Pizza...http://www.gapersblock.com/detour/review_everybody_loves_pizza/      and wanted to try your hand at it....they might be flattered....even.

Stuart

Offline DWChun

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Re: Philly/Trenton-area tomato pie (Split Topic)
« Reply #128 on: July 09, 2007, 07:53:01 PM »
I decided to embrace the "tomato pie" and make a REALLY good one:  Dough thick but light and airy, crust crisp, and a rich sauce thats flavorful without being so overspiced that it stays with you all day.

Great looking tomato pie!

..........and no one wants cheese on the pies.  WTF!!

Hehe, well I think I'd be just fine without cheese too from the looks of the pie in the photo.


DW

Offline MWTC

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Re: Philly/Trenton-area tomato pie (Split Topic)
« Reply #129 on: July 10, 2007, 02:16:00 PM »
If you need help with November’s tool, let me know.

 :o


 :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

MWTC  ;D

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Philly/Trenton-area tomato pie (Split Topic)
« Reply #130 on: July 10, 2007, 02:43:01 PM »
MWTC,

I'm mindful of the fact that not everyone likes or feels comfortable with using technical/mathematical tools. In beaunehead's case, it would be better to first determine the number and sizes of pizzas he wants to make and then use one of the dough calculating tools to determine the amount (weight) of flour before using November's tool to do the conversion of the weight of flour to a volume measurement. That was the basis of my offer to beaunehead.

Peter

Offline MWTC

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Re: Philly/Trenton-area tomato pie (Split Topic)
« Reply #131 on: July 10, 2007, 03:21:04 PM »
I think you missed the humor in my reply. Just being silly. I was thinking of another tool.  :-D

MWTC  :chef:

Offline sourdough girl

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Re: Philly/Trenton-area tomato pie (Split Topic)
« Reply #132 on: July 10, 2007, 03:27:54 PM »
Peter,

I can appreciate your offer to beaunehead because, as a newbie chasing not only my NEPA fried dough crust but also trying to get that crisp, chewy, tangy wild yeast crust, I have to admit being overwhelmed by all the information and calculations... and calculating TOOLS on these boards!  My last iteration was pure failure due to trying to cook the poor pie on my Webber kettle and not having near enough lump charcoal loaded in...  so, I tried switching to my not-nearly-hot-enough kitchen oven...  so, now I'm not sure if the calculations I did were correct... or if it was just that I didn't have enough heat.

It's enough to make a sourdough girl want to just throw her hands in the air!  Hats off to you for wanting to help in anyway possible!

~sd

p.s.   just read MWTC's reply.... YOU NAUGHTY BOY!!   :-[
Never trust a skinny cook!

Offline BenLee

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Re: Philly/Trenton-area tomato pie (Split Topic)
« Reply #133 on: September 11, 2007, 01:18:00 PM »
just went to Delorenzo's over the weekend.  They had a blue bag of Sorrento cheese under the counter.  Pies were amazing as usual.  I also noticed that they cook their pizzas in two ovens.  They cook it first in the bottom oven then transfer it to the top oven.  I wonder if they are two different temperatures or they just do it to keep track of the pies in the oven to churn them out in the order they put them in.


Online Pete-zza

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Re: Philly/Trenton-area tomato pie (Split Topic)
« Reply #134 on: September 11, 2007, 02:21:25 PM »
BenLee,

If I had to guess, I would say that it is an order management matter. At off-peak times, they may be able to get away with using only one of the two ovens and rotating the pies solely within that oven without ending up with too many cool spots created by just-finished pies. At peak times, using both ovens and moving pizzas around to allow the cool spots on the stones to recover for the new pizzas going into the ovens is an efficient way to manage the process. To avoid confusing themselves and trying to remember which pizza went where, the oven tenders may always start the pizzas in the bottom oven and move them up to the top oven if needed. That way, they don't have to open the doors often to check on where the pizzas are and they don't let too much heat out of the oven. Of course, my explanation may need adjustment if they also move pizzas back from the top oven to the bottom oven  ???.

Peter

Offline BenLee

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Re: Philly/Trenton-area tomato pie (Split Topic)
« Reply #135 on: September 11, 2007, 02:34:48 PM »
BenLee,

If I had to guess, I would say that it is an order management matter. At off-peak times, they may be able to get away with using only one of the two ovens and rotating the pies solely within that oven without ending up with too many cool spots created by just-finished pies. At peak times, using both ovens and moving pizzas around to allow the cool spots on the stones to recover for the new pizzas going into the ovens is an efficient way to manage the process. To avoid confusing themselves and trying to remember which pizza went where, the oven tenders may always start the pizzas in the bottom oven and move them up to the top oven if needed. That way, they don't have to open the doors often to check on where the pizzas are and they don't let too much heat out of the oven. Of course, my explanation may need adjustment if they also move pizzas back from the top oven to the bottom oven  ???.


Peter

I'm not sure.  Then again, I don't think there is such thing as an off peak time at Delorenzos. 

Offline MTPIZZA

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Re: Philly/Trenton-area tomato pie (Split Topic)
« Reply #136 on: September 12, 2007, 09:22:06 AM »
Yea they usually have the phone off the hook cause its so busy...

Offline PizzaBrewer

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Re: Philly/Trenton-area tomato pie (Split Topic)
« Reply #137 on: September 18, 2007, 09:13:24 AM »
Haven't been on this (or any other) boards for a while because i've been busy with my new bakery (a good thing).  I saw this topic today only because i'm on vacation and thought i'd reply.  Tomato pie has been a staple of the bakery that i now own since 1940 or earlier. 

Bakerboy, where is your bakery??

---Guy
Man does not live by bread alone.  There's also tomato, cheese and pepperoni.

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Philly/Trenton-area tomato pie (Split Topic)
« Reply #138 on: September 20, 2007, 09:42:04 PM »
Guy,

bakerboy (Barry) was on the forum recently but I believe he missed your post about his bakery. If I had to guess, I would say it is the Black Lab Breads bakery, whose website is at http://www.blacklabbreads.com/. Everything I read at that website seems to fit based on what bakerboy has said in the past in his posts.

Peter

Offline abatardi

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Re: Philly/Trenton-area tomato pie (Split Topic)
« Reply #139 on: September 20, 2007, 10:01:47 PM »
bakerboy your crust looks amazing, care to share your technique? :-)

- aba
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Offline robert40

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Re: Philly/Trenton-area tomato pie (Split Topic)
« Reply #140 on: September 22, 2007, 01:06:43 PM »
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned elsewhere. But Alexander "Chick" DeLorenzo passed away yesterday.
I can't seem to post a link to the obit but it can be found at nj.com.

Truly sad news.

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Re: Philly/Trenton-area tomato pie (Split Topic)
« Reply #141 on: September 22, 2007, 03:03:59 PM »
Robert40,

Thanks for the truncated link. After a few more posts you should be able to post complete links.

To preserve the article on "Chick" DeLorenzo, I have copied and pasted the article below:

'Chick' DeLorenzo, purist for tomato pies, dies
Founder of famous Chambersburg pizzeria
Saturday, September 22, 2007
BY MICHAEL RATCLIFFE

Alexander "Chick" DeLorenzo, founder of the famous DeLorenzo's Tomato Pies pizzeria located on Hudson Street in Trenton, died yesterday at his home in Borden town City. He was 85.

A U.S. Army veteran of World War II, he founded his eatery in Chambersburg in 1947, about the same time two of his brothers -- Pasquale and Americo "Ricky" DeLorenzo -- founded their own tomato pie restaurant, also called DeLorenzo's, on nearby Hamilton Avenue.

Pasquale DeLorenzo died in January 2006 at the age of 79.

Chick DeLorenzo and his wife, Sophie, ran their small but popular restaurant on Hudson Street for nearly 50 years before retiring in 1995 and turning over the business to his daughter and son-in-law, Ei leen and Gary Amico of Hamilton, and grandson, Sam Amico.

Sophie DeLorenzo died in 2004 at age 83.

"A pizza could be any pie. But tomato pie is the real name for pizza. It's whole tomatoes, as op posed to sauce, and the emphasis is on the tomatoes, not the cheese," Chick DeLorenzo once told a Times reporter.

When the Hudson Street eatery first opened, Sophie DeLorenzo canned New Jersey tomatoes at home for use on her husband's pies, which back then were baked in a coal-fired brick oven.

Later, they began using toma toes shipped from California.

During an interview with The Times in 1996, shortly after he retired, Chick DeLorenzo recalled how he once flew out to California in a panic when he heard that his sole tomato supplier was going out of business. Thankfully, he said, it turned out to be a rumor.

Chick DeLorenzo and his wife shared a tomato pie each of the six nights their restaurant was open, according to The Times' archives.

In the early days of the business, customers could buy a small pie for 25 cents and a large pie for 50 cents. The pizza was wrapped in newspaper so patrons could carry it home.

Over the years, the prices went up and boxes were introduced, but the popularity of
DeLorenzo's creation never seemed to dim. The restaurant was featured in a 2005 documentary, "Pie Eyed: The Movie." Chick DeLorenzo loved the opera and Atlantic City, but most of all he loved spending time with his family. He is survived by a large number of relatives.

Calling hours will be tomorrow from 4 to 8 p.m. at Brenna Funeral Home on Hamilton Avenue. A Mass of Christian Burial will be celebrated 9:30 a.m. Monday at St. Joachim's Church on Butler Street, with entombment to follow at St. Mary's Mausoleum in Hamilton.


Offline MTPIZZA

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Re: Philly/Trenton-area tomato pie (Split Topic)
« Reply #142 on: September 22, 2007, 07:20:27 PM »
Thanks for posting that Peter, it wasn't too long ago I had a great time with Chic. He hobbled in from the back kitchen with his cane and sat down next to us. When you were in his pizzeria you were considered family. He told me a funny story about the Roebling family who were a wealthy business family and involved in the politics in Trenton. Apparantly Chic used to supply the political meetings with pies something in the neighborhood of hundreds of pies from his coal pizza oven. The Roeblings as I heard were involved in making commercial wire/cable for bridges etc..and they also must have been in the coal business as their family supplied Chic with his coal for his ovens. Chic almost ran out once and called Mrs. Roebling to say he needed more coal that they were running out. So she said Ok..we are going to place a rail track in your back yard and we can back up a coal car and you have all you want... Chic then told me he said... "Oh my God no --where will Sophie hang my underwear and clothing to dry??? (nobody had dryers back then obviously)...he chuckled loudly as I sat there laughing with him putting a piece of tomato pie in my mouth.
I then asked him if just a plain tomato pie was his favorite.. and he said will no it wasn't -- he loved a tomato and clam pie... Then as I turned around in the booth to finish my pie, I felt the tap of his cane on my shoulder and he said to me... So, hows your pie...crispy enough for ya?... I smiled and said yes and of course he knew why I was smiling... just the best... I'll never forget Sophie and Chic... wonderful wonderful people. God bless them...

Offline bakerboy

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Re: Philly/Trenton-area tomato pie (Split Topic)
« Reply #143 on: October 23, 2007, 07:03:37 PM »
pizzabrewer, hope you got my email.  please introduce yourself if you stop by.
Pete, your right on.  Blacklab breads is my gig.
Abatardi, i will gladly give the recipe and technique i use for the focacccia in the pics.  there are 2 versions.  one uses only a natural sourdough starter and the other is a commercial yeast version.  I'll post both, hopefully with pics, in the sicilian pizza section.
sorry to be so late getting back.

Offline petef

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Re: Philly/Trenton-area tomato pie (Split Topic)
« Reply #144 on: November 17, 2007, 11:08:28 PM »
Opps, I saw this thread too late.
I should have posted my review here of Pete's Steak House - Tomato Pie

See my other post titled... Pete's Steak House - Tomato Pie
Which is located in Ewing/Trenton New Jersey



Offline abatardi

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Re: Philly/Trenton-area tomato pie (Split Topic)
« Reply #145 on: November 18, 2007, 12:22:16 AM »
bakerboy, wow, thanks - that would be great.

- aba
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Offline pizzoid

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Re: Philly/Trenton-area tomato pie (Split Topic)
« Reply #146 on: December 09, 2007, 04:59:57 PM »
Big thread, a lot to digest.

Does anyone have recommendations (or dis-recommendations), if one is barreling down I-95 on a tight schedule and can't tolerate adding an hour of time detouring for lunch, which one of the locations to try in Trenton, or if it's preferable to wait for Alfred's in Blackwood? I'm thinking about local knowledge of parking, traffic congestion, etc., or one of the places always takes an hour to get your order out. We'll be passing by on Saturday.

Pete's Steak House, Top Road Tavern, DeLorenzo's are one's I'm considering around Trenton.

Thanks, Al

Offline BenLee

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Re: Philly/Trenton-area tomato pie (Split Topic)
« Reply #147 on: December 09, 2007, 11:58:39 PM »
delorenzo's, but I don't think they open til 3 pm

Offline petef

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Re: Philly/Trenton-area tomato pie (Split Topic)
« Reply #148 on: December 10, 2007, 02:39:44 AM »
Pete's Steak House, Top Road Tavern, DeLorenzo's are one's I'm considering around Trenton.

If on a tight schedule, geographically, Top Road Tavern is easiest to get to from I-95,
so try them first and see how long the wait is. If the wait is too long, go a few blocks
south and make a RIGHT to go west on Olden Ave. Go about 1 mile to the intersection
of Rt 31 and Olden Ave. where you will find Pete's Steak House.

Maybe call to find the wait time...

Top Road Tavern & Pizza
1042 Brunswick Ave
Trenton, NJ 08638
(609) 393-5911

Keep us posted :)

---pete---


« Last Edit: December 10, 2007, 02:44:21 AM by petef »

Offline mmarston

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Re: Philly/Trenton-area tomato pie (Split Topic)
« Reply #149 on: January 11, 2008, 09:35:43 AM »
Many years ago my high school friends and I used to get tomato focaccia from a bakery not far from Fisherman's Wharf in the North Beach neighborhood of San Francisco. We could get a very large piece, like ½ a large baking pan to share for around $2. It was delicious, filling and cheap. I cannot recall the name but I think it was on Taylor Street. I'm sure it's no longer there as the neighborhood changed dramatically and a commercial bakery could probably not afford to keep the space.

I had mostly forgotten about it until I saw this thread and now I'll have to try making some.

Michael
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