Author Topic: Polly wanted another Cracker "DKM that is"  (Read 6656 times)

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Offline JConk007

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Polly wanted another Cracker "DKM that is"
« on: February 02, 2009, 08:30:06 PM »
Got the new 14 " cutter pan soo...
What else? fill that and 2 others for the Saturday pizza party. I did the DKM thin crisp and crackery last time. so I tried the other thin crispy this time. I used KA Sir Lancelot  instead of AP flour. I also did a 9 Hr room rise followed by a 10 hrs in the  fridge  followed by 1 1/2 hrs on the counter then The trick I picked up from Peter who picked it up from someone else 100 degree oven for a short while.Helps make this low hydration dough much easier to work with and roll out. I think the extended rise and the Sir Lancelot the flavor was wonderfull I used Stella Block Mozz. coarse hand shredded and topped it off with Ill Villaggio Parmigiano Reggiano. Fine grated by hand machine. This was a  first and a splurge for me at $18 /lb. but I probably wont make another pie without it its that good! Using the good old Lehman calc tool it looked like this.

Flour   100%   456g
Water   36%    165g
ADY      1.2%   5.5g
Salt      1.2%   5.5g
Oil        3.5%    16g
Sugar    1.2%   5.5g


Thickness factor .0625
waste 1.5%
This was enough for 2 -14" and 1 -9"  cutter pans I had and  still enough for a football pie which I forgot to take a pic of
before it was devoured. I blame that on the wild horse ;)
Dock  both sides and par bake for 4-5 min., top in pan, cook for 10 min at 475
« Last Edit: February 02, 2009, 09:15:12 PM by JConk007 »
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Offline JConk007

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Re: Polly wanted another Cracker "DKM that is"
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2009, 08:42:02 PM »
Heres the 1/2 sausage a touch well done also by request. I just love this recipe its quick and easy and the testers said it was better than Kinchleys !! The local joint that Packs em in. That makes me very happy
If you have not tried it DO IT! and if you dont have a cutter pan. after you roll out 1/16" thick trace around the pan you have I used a deep dish again with and extra 1/2 inch used the roller to get it in worked out fine that is this pizza.
YUM
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Polly wanted another Cracker "DKM that is"
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2009, 09:04:41 PM »
John,

Those are some great looking pizzas. I wondered whether you would find the KASL cracker-style dough tough to roll out. But you were smart to use heat to warm it up. It is an almost foolproof method. In my case, I use my homemade proofing box. 

I believe you mean to say that the sugar in the dough formulation you posted is 1.2%, not 5.5%. Also, I should mention that when I made several of my versions of DKM's recipe I used a thickness factor like yours, which yielded a very thin and crispy crust. However, I believe that DKM's dough has a thickness factor that is closer to 0.08-0.09, and maybe even a bit higher. That should yield a more cracker-like and tender crust than a super crispy one.

Did you pre-bake the skins? Also, now that you have had a chance to play around with the new 14" cutter pan from pizzatools.com, have you warmed up to it yet?

Peter

Offline JConk007

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Re: Polly wanted another Cracker "DKM that is"
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2009, 09:28:45 PM »
 oops thanks peter, I fixed that. They all like the crunch of this recipe. I am able to get it very very thin before a careful transfer. I do plan to try the laminate method some time. I also think once you have done the final trim /cut of the  dough your should let it rest a bit before the pre bake. Yes I did mention I pre- baked for like 4-5 min. its  more of an eye thing than a timer. You can see in the 9" picture with fresh toppings  the dough has been pre or par?  baked, and shrinks up in the pan a bit.
As for the cutter pan Yes, I love it and I am sure it will serve me for years to come. I did lightly gease it and cleaned it well when done. Honestley I could not see or taste a big difference in any of the pans I used. 1 Pizzatools.com cutter ,1 allied cutter and 1 no name lighter gauge deep dish 14" I  just thought the darker and heavier gauge would provide better distribution/transfer of heat. Not so in this recipe. I think the Deep dish baking at 45 min may be a different story I will try that new one soon, against the allied 9 inchers I have.
John
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Polly wanted another Cracker "DKM that is"
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2009, 09:48:39 PM »
the dough has been pre or par?  baked

John,

Par-bake is a more common expression than pre-bake. But, somewhere along the way I decided to draw a distinction in my writing between a crust that is baked and then promptly finished (like you did) and one that is baked and set aside for use at another time. The latter crusts are typically stored in the refrigerator or freezer or at room temperature if used the same day. Par-baked crusts are a business in themselves, and there are many companies that sell them to pizza operators. Most of the chain thin and crispy crusts are par-baked crusts.

Peter

Offline JConk007

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Re: Polly wanted another Cracker "DKM that is"
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2009, 09:54:55 PM »
 Thanks for the clarification (IE Boboli is a par bake). Makes good sense. and I am willing to bet thats what the local place Kinchleys is using par bake. Feel its the only way  they could do as many as they do or maybe they have a huge sheeter and a full timer on the dough. I also noticed the old cook there opened his own place Nellies and it tastes identical same supplier? and equally as fast I mean even when its packed it a 5-7 min wait and bingo pizza.
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Offline November

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Re: Polly wanted another Cracker "DKM that is"
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2009, 11:59:02 PM »
Peter,

Until I first saw you use the term "pre-bake" to describe a partially baked pizza crust, I had never heard it used that way before.  Pre-baking has always meant one of two things to me, 1) a 100% baked product intended to be used in another application (other than baking), or 2) a blind-baked product intended to be used for additional baking.  "Blind-baking" is after all the more formal term for "pre-baking" when dealing with pie crusts. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind-baking)  "Par-baking" by its simplest definition means partially baked, although a less general definition also includes the rapid freezing and storage following the partial bake.  However, if that less general definition is used, it would exclude a lot of various baked goods such as those from Boboli, since they are not frozen.

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Offline November

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Re: Polly wanted another Cracker "DKM that is"
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2009, 12:17:39 AM »
John,

Those pizzas look good and very much like the DKM original.

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Polly wanted another Cracker "DKM that is"
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2009, 10:31:38 AM »
November,

For quite some time, in my reading at the PMQ Think Tank and Pizza Today Bulletin Board, I would find both terms used. The terms were pretty much used interchangeably but the term "par-bake" was by far the more common usage. To be honest, I found the use of the two terms to be somewhat irritating because it meant that I would have to use both terms (sometimes with and without hyphens) whenever I wanted to do a search on the subject at the abovementioned forums. To this day, I find it irritating.

From my reading, the most common context in which the term "par-bake" was used was in relation to crusts that were prepared commercially by companies for use by pizza operators. Some pizza operators make their own rather than buying them, with a common example being deep-dish crusts. I think in that case making prepared crusts in advance makes sense because deep-dish pizzas usually take a lot longer to bake than regular pizzas. It is also easy to do. Interestingly, Wikipedia even goes so far as to make parbaking a deep-dish pizza crust a component of that style (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago-style_pizza). It's possible that some pizza operators specializing in cracker-style pizzas will make their own parbaked crusts but I do not sense from my reading that that is a common practice. I know also that there are some pizza operators who will prepare par-baked crusts in advance when they have to make pizzas--especially in volume--at an offsite location, such as at a fair, or where there are limited facilities to prepare pizzas from scratch.

In my own case, after considering all of the possibilities as noted above, I simply decided to create my own naming convention, and to refer to crusts that are to be partially baked and then promptly finished as "pre-baked" and to use the term "par-baked" for everything else. Since I don't "pre-bake" deep-dish crusts or regular crusts, my most common usage of the term "pre-bake" is for cracker-type crusts--in those instances in which I do partially bake them. I will also use the term in respect of pizzas made by others where a pizza crust is partially baked and then promptly finished.

I might add that I have also found the semantic difference to come in handy when revisiting my own posts. As soon as I see the terms, I know what I did. The distinction also comes in handy when searching my own posts. Boboli gets around the naming problem by simply referring to their product as "pizza crusts". That is perhaps a better marketing approach than referring to their crusts as par-baked or pre-baked.

Peter


Offline Steve

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Re: Polly wanted another Cracker "DKM that is"
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2009, 09:01:49 PM »
Fantastic looking pizzas!!  :chef:

I've gotta get back to making cracker-style... I've been focusing on NY-Style lately.

Keep up the good work!!
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Offline JConk007

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Re: Polly wanted another Cracker "DKM that is"
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2009, 09:15:32 PM »
I live just outside of NY so I am having fun trying all this good stuff here on the forum. But the DKM cracker is easy and a great hit here at home , a Favorite with everbody and I can do it in the rain snow or shine right in the wolf oven,
Go for it Steve.
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Offline JConk007

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Re: Polly wanted another Cracker "DKM that is"
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2009, 03:21:23 PM »
Saturday night PIZZA!
Did the favorite cracker DKM thin and Cripy from the  recipe section on the forum. This as I have mentioned is just a great simple light  and crispy delight!
As peter mentions in other cracker posts the flour for the crust I dont feel is as important as the quality toppings. The crust is so thin 1/16"  or less! The crust does not make or break the great pie. Its the crispy and cracker that makes it light and enjoyable. I used KAAP this time after using the sir lancelot  last time and there was no noticeable difference. It still tasted great. 1 1/2 day fridge 2 hrs in the warming drawer at 95 degrees and roll  out very thin (thinnest yet) With the remains from the 2 14" pizzas I Laminated them just to see if there was a difference doing it that way. I noticed very little. I also Docked both sides this time and more than the past 2 attempts and bubbles were really kept to a minimum. he double 2 sided dock was a noticable difference.
I used Hand shredded Stella Mozz. and a touch of hand shredded yellow cheddar for color and taste. Sauce was Don pepino sauce mixed with 6-1s and Penzey seasoning.Mixed up sausage and the pepperoni. I was also making several Lehman NY also so needed more sauce than I had so I added the 1 can to my homemade sauce. Pre bake shell for 5  min extra crispy the bake at 475 for 7-9 min. I had 3 goin at once so I was shuffling up and down brick and off. all in all YUM
LOVE this pizza as did all the testers
John
« Last Edit: April 19, 2009, 03:28:57 PM by JConk007 »
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Offline ThunderStik

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Re: Polly wanted another Cracker "DKM that is"
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2009, 03:27:28 PM »
Where might I find the recipe for this?

How does it work on a stone with no pan?
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Polly wanted another Cracker "DKM that is"
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2009, 03:50:44 PM »
ThunderStik,

John Conk can correct me on this, but I believe he made a "thinner" version of the DKM dough recipe given at http://www.pizzamaking.com/pizzainnstyle.php. There are several threads on the forum that are devoted to DKM's recipe.

There was also a lot of experimental work on that recipe at this thread: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5762.0.html. Several members, John and I included, chose to use a cutter pan to bake the pizzas but it is possible, as other members have demonstrated, to bake the pizzas on a pizza stone.

Peter

Offline ThunderStik

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Re: Polly wanted another Cracker "DKM that is"
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2009, 04:28:12 PM »
Thanks Pete, I think this will be my next project.
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Offline JConk007

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Re: Polly wanted another Cracker "DKM that is"
« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2009, 10:58:43 PM »
Yes Peter you are correct. Thats the recipe I used, before I had a real handle on the dough clculator tool. so i just kept rollin!
I  went Very thin on the roll out but did use a cutter pan. You can get a 14 or 16" check oven! at www.pizzatools.com Any pan will work that is not some thin aluminum POC.
I highly recommend the cutter pan for this style of crust. I also used my deep dish pan roll out then trace with wheel cutter and slip it into pan, not as easy as cutter pan but came out great  It is an easy recipe to prepare and always came out good for me on all attempts I think it could be done on stone only but I have never tried it. The trick is the prebake in pan for the few minutes. Just make sure you look at all the posts and pictures available on this style as the brain dough seems quite weird at first to get your mind to accept I mentioned this in my first attempt here.http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7592.0.html
Have fun and be careful this ones addicting!
john
« Last Edit: August 11, 2009, 11:06:39 PM by JConk007 »
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Offline ThunderStik

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Re: Polly wanted another Cracker "DKM that is"
« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2009, 11:59:54 PM »
Thanks for the pointers guys. I guess I better find a cutter pan. Since I only bake on stones I have no idea how they measure the pans.

Is the diameter measurement the flat bottom or the top of the lip (major OD). I have only a little over 16 inches of total depth to play with.
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Polly wanted another Cracker "DKM that is"
« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2009, 12:14:48 AM »
ThunderStik,

My cutter pan has a sloping edge. The one I have came from pizzatools.com (Lloyd Pans) and is the 14" size, with the PSTK coating, as shown at http://www.pizzatools.com/SearchByCategory.aspx?CategoryCode=052000. I like the cutter pan a lot but there is no reason why you can't bake on a pizza stone. For me, one of the advantages of the cutter pan is that I can place the cheese and toppings right to the edge of the pan and not worry that the toppings will slide off when I load the pizza onto the stone. You also get that crispy overcooked cheese at the edge of the pizza, which I happen to like.

Peter

Offline ThunderStik

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Re: Polly wanted another Cracker "DKM that is"
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2009, 08:39:01 AM »
So how do they measure the pans?
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Polly wanted another Cracker "DKM that is"
« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2009, 09:14:39 AM »
ThunderStik,

Since just about all pizza pans and screens are measured in whole sizes/inches, I would say that the cutter pans are identified by the top diameter. Another well known manufacturer of tapered pans, Allied Metal USA, also appears to use the same numbering convention: http://www.alliedmetalusa.com/catalog.cfm/ses_/c,list,x,1,60,x/ses_thispage/1/. I believe John Conk is using an Allied cutter pan, although it may not be named as such.

Peter