Author Topic: Random NY pies  (Read 19394 times)

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Offline Johnny the Gent

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Re: Random NY pies
« Reply #300 on: October 05, 2014, 08:36:35 PM »
A couple pies using 8 day old dough. 64% hydration, 4.5% vinegar (68.5% total hydration), AP flour (12% protein) ,  1.5% salt, .8% cake yeast.  Note the high yeast % and absence of oil - this dough was intended to be a same day bread dough. Last minute I decided to set aside some dough for pies. Pies opened with oil on top side, Frank Giaquinto style. Loved it!

Wife's request: Margherita, Brazilian style (with sliced tomatoes and fresh basil post bake)

My pie: Prosciutto and green onion (prosciutto & green onion laid on once pie was done, set under the broiler for approx 30 seconds).
Il miglior fabbro


Offline norma427

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Re: Random NY pies
« Reply #301 on: October 05, 2014, 09:43:35 PM »
Johnny,

Those two pizzas look very tasty.  What does vinegar do for the dough and final pizzas crust?   Do you notice any differences when not using vinegar?

Norma
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Offline jvp123

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Re: Random NY pies
« Reply #302 on: October 05, 2014, 10:00:37 PM »
Very nice looking Johnny!  The vinegar sort of blew my mind.  :-D  Not even sure I want to ask what thats all about.  :-D
Jeff

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Random NY pies
« Reply #303 on: October 05, 2014, 10:23:04 PM »
Johnny,

Those two pizzas look very tasty.  What does vinegar do for the dough and final pizzas crust?   Do you notice any differences when not using vinegar?

Norma
Norma,

You might take a look at Reply 2 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=13174.msg129554#msg129554 . You might also recall that the late Otis Gunn once asked Tom Lehmann about using vinegar in a pizza dough, at http://thinktank.pmq.com/threads/emergency-dough.216/ .

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Random NY pies
« Reply #304 on: October 06, 2014, 08:20:52 AM »
Norma,

You might take a look at Reply 2 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=13174.msg129554#msg129554 . You might also recall that the late Otis Gunn once asked Tom Lehmann about using vinegar in a pizza dough, at http://thinktank.pmq.com/threads/emergency-dough.216/ .

Peter

Peter,

Thank you for the links.  Yes, I do recall Otis Gunn once asked Tom Lehmann about using vinegar in a pizza dough, but I forgot what Tom Lehmann replied.  I see Johnny's used a high amount of yeast, so he probably used the vinegar to help the yeast ferment better in his dough.  I recall you tried vinegar in a dough.  I also recall November used apple cider vinegar in his Dutch Apple Pizza dough. 

Norma 
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Offline Johnny the Gent

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Re: Random NY pies
« Reply #305 on: October 08, 2014, 07:06:56 AM »
Johnny,

Those two pizzas look very tasty.  What does vinegar do for the dough and final pizzas crust?   Do you notice any differences when not using vinegar?


Thanks Norma. I'm starting to think that vinegar may be inhibiting the "liveliness" of the dough, at least in the manner which I use it (autolyse).  The final crust does seem to be a little heavier, a bit more gummy, and the outer crust shell a bit more dense.  The pics may not be indicative of this, because oven spring and crumb structure is about the same - it's the texture that is different.  I may need to try it a couple more times to confirm this, but I'm pretty sure it's something I've noticed.  There is the flavor aspect though - a nice, subtle acetic tang, just a bit more complex than a multiday fermented dough. A normal dough (sans vinegar) seems lighter in comparison.
Il miglior fabbro

Offline norma427

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Re: Random NY pies
« Reply #306 on: October 08, 2014, 08:13:25 AM »
Thanks Norma. I'm starting to think that vinegar may be inhibiting the "liveliness" of the dough, at least in the manner which I use it (autolyse).  The final crust does seem to be a little heavier, a bit more gummy, and the outer crust shell a bit more dense.  The pics may not be indicative of this, because oven spring and crumb structure is about the same - it's the texture that is different.  I may need to try it a couple more times to confirm this, but I'm pretty sure it's something I've noticed.  There is the flavor aspect though - a nice, subtle acetic tang, just a bit more complex than a multiday fermented dough. A normal dough (sans vinegar) seems lighter in comparison.

Johnny,

It is interesting that you are starting to think that the vinegar may be inhibiting the liveliness of the dough.  I sure don't know but the crust might have been a little heavier from the long ferment time.  Didn't you ferment for 8 days?  That is a long while to ferment without sugar added to your dough with the high amount of yeast.  Did you reball at all?  I will tend to think that the subtle acetic tang was from the long fermentation instead of the vinegar.  What do I know though.  :-D I really like your experiments and was surprised that your crusts had such good browning.  :chef:

Norma
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Offline Johnny the Gent

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Re: Random NY pies
« Reply #307 on: October 18, 2014, 07:29:29 PM »
Found a frozen doughball in the back of the freezer. At least a couple of months frozen. Thawed and looking good, I got busy. Smooth, sweet tomato sauce with minced garlic, oregano, EVOO and basil, whole milk mozz, mandolin sliced sweet onion, pepperoni. What a pie!
Il miglior fabbro

Offline jvp123

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Re: Random NY pies
« Reply #308 on: October 18, 2014, 07:51:02 PM »
Like the onions idea a lot - great looking pie JTG!
Jeff

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Re: Random NY pies
« Reply #309 on: October 18, 2014, 09:23:54 PM »
Like the onions idea a lot - great looking pie JTG!
Hard to beat an on. and pep pie......niiiiice Johnny.  :chef:
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Offline jvp123

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Re: Random NY pies
« Reply #310 on: October 18, 2014, 09:36:55 PM »
Hard to beat an on. and pep pie......niiiiice Johnny.  :chef:

Agree, and I think the mandolin slice technique is a nice touch - I'd imagine, it makes the onion so thin it melts and then kinda sweetens the sauce which is a nice contrast with the pep.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2014, 09:40:54 PM by jvp123 »
Jeff

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Re: Random NY pies
« Reply #311 on: October 18, 2014, 09:52:51 PM »
Agree, and I think the mandolin slice technique is a nice touch - I'd imagine, it makes the onion so thin it melts and then kinda sweetens the sauce which is a nice contrast with the pep.
Exactly....ultra thin onion `waters off` better and melds in with the cheese/sauce better.....if you take a handfull of them and sorta fluff up/ separate them and then apply on pie absolutely last before going in oven you will get some nice burnt edges on that onion too....oh my.... :drool:
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Offline jvp123

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Re: Random NY pies
« Reply #312 on: October 18, 2014, 09:58:23 PM »
Exactly....ultra thin onion `waters off` better and melds in with the cheese/sauce better.....if you take a handfull of them and sorta fluff up/ separate them and then apply on pie absolutely last before going in oven you will get some nice burnt edges on that onion too....oh my.... :drool:

yeah if you fluff them a bit you get the best of both worlds.  ;D
Jeff

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Re: Random NY pies
« Reply #313 on: October 18, 2014, 10:27:37 PM »
yeah if you fluff them a bit you get the best of both worlds.  ;D
Yep....It`s a good word ain`t it.....one of my favorites.   >:D
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Offline woodmakesitgood

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Re: Random NY pies
« Reply #314 on: October 18, 2014, 10:57:44 PM »
Found a frozen doughball in the back of the freezer. At least a couple of months frozen. Thawed and looking good, I got busy. Smooth, sweet tomato sauce with minced garlic, oregano, EVOO and basil, whole milk mozz, mandolin sliced sweet onion, pepperoni. What a pie!


I'm also finding that a frozen dough ball at the back of the freezer is a-ok.

Online Chicago Bob

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Re: Random NY pies
« Reply #315 on: October 18, 2014, 11:42:40 PM »

I'm also finding that a frozen dough ball at the back of the freezer is a-ok.
The month old ones in the back of the refrig section are are the perplexing dandies.   ;)
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Offline Johnny the Gent

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Re: Random NY pies
« Reply #316 on: October 19, 2014, 06:18:11 AM »
Johnny,

It is interesting that you are starting to think that the vinegar may be inhibiting the liveliness of the dough.  I sure don't know but the crust might have been a little heavier from the long ferment time.  Didn't you ferment for 8 days?  That is a long while to ferment without sugar added to your dough with the high amount of yeast.  Did you reball at all?  I will tend to think that the subtle acetic tang was from the long fermentation instead of the vinegar.  What do I know though.  :-D I really like your experiments and was surprised that your crusts had such good browning.  :chef:

Norma

Norma, you have a point - it did ferment for 8 days, which may be why the crust seemed a little "heavy". No sugar, either. I didn't reball. I've not noticed any "tang" from long fermented doughs, I have definitely with vinegar, albeit very slightly, when used in the 4-5% range.  Thanks for your thoughts!
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Offline Johnny the Gent

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Re: Random NY pies
« Reply #317 on: October 19, 2014, 06:22:19 AM »
Agree, and I think the mandolin slice technique is a nice touch - I'd imagine, it makes the onion so thin it melts and then kinda sweetens the sauce which is a nice contrast with the pep.

Exactly....ultra thin onion `waters off` better and melds in with the cheese/sauce better.....if you take a handfull of them and sorta fluff up/ separate them and then apply on pie absolutely last before going in oven you will get some nice burnt edges on that onion too....oh my.... :drool:

Bingo!  ;) Yes, the ultra thin onion slices "become one" with the cheese, swallowed up in the furious cheese boil. I laid them on after the cheese, and before the pepperoni. 
Il miglior fabbro