Author Topic: Essen1's NY-style pizza project  (Read 103678 times)

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Offline chickenparm

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #660 on: August 23, 2011, 12:39:52 AM »
Mike,

Many Thanks for the kind words!!.Im sorry to hear about your losses as well.I can see you have been through alot yourself.I guess we all face these things one time or another.

For sure,will continue to strive to make pizzas better and better as much as I can do so.I post what I share and hope others can benefit or learn to do even more than I did.
 :)
-Bill


Offline norma427

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #661 on: August 23, 2011, 07:02:54 AM »
Mike,

Your newbies quick dough pizza really looks delicious!  :)  Nice job, and especially since you made it for your mother.

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #662 on: August 23, 2011, 12:11:59 PM »
Mike,

Very nice job, as usual. It helps to have an emergency dough recipe or two on hand to meet short term needs.

I would characterize your latest pizza as having shades of a Peter Reinhart NY style but without the high dough hydration. What you made is also close to a Papa John's clone pizza but with a bit thinner crust. If your mother liked your latest effort, she might also like a PJ emergency clone pizza as well. I described one such version at Reply 52 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.msg66312.html#msg66312. I just wouldn't use the words "Papa John's" to Mom. The mere utterance of such words are enough to induce some people, particularly pizza lovers, into a catatonic state. Another such word is "Domino's". I would simply describe the pizza as a "classic American style pizza" inspired by Tom Lehmann, a highly respected pizza expert.

BTW, what type and brand of flour did you use?

Peter

Offline Essen1

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #663 on: August 23, 2011, 12:13:55 PM »
Bill,

The way I see it is that it's part of life and nature. At some point, we'll all leave this planet.

But enough talk about death and sadness....let's enjoy pizza  :chef:


Norma,

I actually really liked the texture of the crust.

I was thoroughly impressed with the dough given the short time frame it was made in. And when my mother bit into the outer crust lengthwise it revealed an airy inside, almost Tartine bread-like. Very nice. And the coloration was phenomenal, better than I have achieved recently.

Mike

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Offline Essen1

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #664 on: August 23, 2011, 12:24:14 PM »
Mike,

Very nice job, as usual. It helps to have an emergency dough recipe or two on hand to meet short term needs.

I would characterize your latest pizza as having shades of a Peter Reinhart NY style but without the high dough hydration. What you made is also close to a Papa John's clone pizza but with a bit thinner crust. If your mother liked your latest effort, she might also like a PJ emergency clone pizza as well. I described one such version at Reply 52 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.msg66312.html#msg66312. I just wouldn't use the words "Papa John's" to Mom. The mere utterance of such words are enough to induce some people, particularly pizza lovers, into a catatonic state. Another such word is "Domino's". I would simply describe the pizza as a "classic American style pizza" inspired by Tom Lehmann, a highly respected pizza expert.

BTW, what type and brand of flour did you use?


Peter


Peter,

Thanks.  :)

I currently am still nursing a 50lb bag of ConAgra Harvest Bread Flour. Not a bad flour. My mother was really impressed with the dough. She made an interesting comment actually:

 "With a smaller outer crust and perhaps a bit thinner main crust, that could be close to an Avellino pizza"

I cant' mention the name Papa John's or Domino's. She's not a person that likes pizzas from chains. But either way, like I said before it's quite a good dough. I'm thinking of taking that formula and see if I can coax a 24 hr fermentation out of it. With less yeast, of course.
Mike

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Offline jpc

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #665 on: August 23, 2011, 07:03:35 PM »
Finally got my hands on Polly-O. Finally!

It's harder to find here in Cali but a family member had a meeting with some regional managers of our smaller independent supermarkets (Lunardi's) here in the Bay Area and while she was there brought me a couple of 16oz blocks.

I forgot that Lunardi's carried it, which is probably the only source here for Polly-O, until member Scott R refreshed my memory. I just love that cheese. Much better than anything around here, imho.


Which Lunardi's carries it?  I haven't seen it in the Campbell (formerly Cosentino's) location.  Being a former east coaster, I'd love to find some...


Offline Essen1

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #666 on: August 23, 2011, 07:08:28 PM »
JPC,

There is no Lunardi's in Southern Cali as far as I know. They're a local, independent supermarket in the Bay Area.
Mike

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Offline Essen1

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #667 on: August 23, 2011, 07:19:23 PM »
JPC,

Wait, my bad. You meant the Campbell/San Jose location  :-[  Whoops.

Here's a tip: They store Polly-O not in their cheese counter or the cheese display on the floor. It's usually where the milk is, as far as I remember. But maybe not all locations carry it. The one in Belmont does, though. Or try the Los Gatos location which is closer to you.

I'd call first before making the trip.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2011, 07:21:20 PM by Essen1 »
Mike

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Offline Essen1

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #668 on: August 24, 2011, 01:38:27 AM »
After brooding a bit over Tom's Emergency Formula whenever I had a chance at work today, which can be found here by member Grilling24x7 - http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9453.msg81835.html#msg81835 - about how to expand the fermentation time to 24 hrs without losing all the nice characteristics of the crust I came up with this formula:

Flour (100%):
Water (57%):
IDY (.6%):
Salt (2%):
Oil (6.5%):
Sugar (3.5%):
Total (169.6%):
Single Ball:
509.18 g  |  17.96 oz | 1.12 lbs
290.23 g  |  10.24 oz | 0.64 lbs
3.06 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.01 tsp | 0.34 tbsp
10.18 g | 0.36 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.82 tsp | 0.61 tbsp
33.1 g | 1.17 oz | 0.07 lbs | 7.35 tsp | 2.45 tbsp
17.82 g | 0.63 oz | 0.04 lbs | 4.47 tsp | 1.49 tbsp
863.57 g | 30.46 oz | 1.9 lbs | TF = 0.07575
431.78 g | 15.23 oz | 0.95 lbs

I lowered the yeast amount, increased the water amount a tiny little bit, lowered the sugar value since a longer fermentation will bring out the natural sugars in the flour, increasing the total value, but raised the salt level by .25 points to control fermentation. At least that's the plan.  :-\  Don't know if it'll work but we'll see.

I will also do an individual dough ball rise since I am apparently the only one on here who does the bulk rise.  ???

So I'm switching things up and will experiment a bit more with single/individual fermentation instead of bulk. Will definitely be beneficial regarding the outcome and learning curve.

I'll report back. In the meantime, comments are welcome as always.
Mike

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Offline pizzablogger

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #669 on: September 01, 2011, 10:41:48 AM »
On my phone, so I cannot post links, but Pizzeria Avellino was reviewed on Slice today....someone reading this thread and looking at the Avellino pictures posted here may have suggested Slice check it out  :)

Pizza in the Slice review doesn't look as good as what's been posted here. -k
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Offline Essen1

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #670 on: September 01, 2011, 11:51:15 AM »
PB,

Here's the story behind Avellino as was told to me by Marcello's owners Luc & Annie.

When Avellino first opened, they offered a rustic type of pizza, thin-crust but not necessarily NY-style. The guy who first opened the place was a former employee at Marcello's. After about 6 or 8 months he had to sell it for reasons I'm not familiar with.

Then the current guys took over and from what I know, they're from New York. I have never heard that any of them have worked at Arinell's. But it could be true. However, I had both and must say that Avellino is a much better crust than Arinell's in my book. But I guess that also depends on who you ask.
Mike

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Offline Essen1

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #671 on: September 01, 2011, 11:59:44 AM »
« Last Edit: September 01, 2011, 03:54:00 PM by Essen1 »
Mike

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Offline Essen1

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #672 on: September 01, 2011, 12:15:27 PM »
A couple of excerpts from reviews of the early days of Avellino:

Quote
8/31/2009

This place is great.  If you ask me, what makes a really good pizza is the cheese.  Sauce is one thing, crust is also important, but without good cheese you don't really have pizza.  The cheese here is amazing, just enough gorgonzola to be noticed, but not enough to overpower.  My wife and I really like the rustica style pies, but then again we are from the west coast.  They make enough types of pies that people with a new york bias won't be disappointed.  All are affordable, and slices are available for those who are too timid to get a whole pie.  Seriously, though, if you just get a slice what are you going to eat for breakfast the next morning?

My three boys love both the new york style and the rustica.  The toppings are really good as well.  Outdoor seating will be great for sunny days, and for a place that has only been open a very short while, it is run well.  Again, though I have to mention the pizza rustica, either four-cheese or prosciutto, are worth selling heirloom jewelry for.  Good thing, though, the prices are low enough so that won't come up.

and...

Quote
11/22/2009

Very disappointed that they have changed their menu and no longer make rustic pizzas -such as prosciutto, 4 cheeses, and/or Greco  which were my favorites. They seem to be heading in the direction of becoming a generic pizza restaurant and it's a shame. i guess I'll just go to A-16 for my pizza.


No more rustic pies when the new guys took over.
Mike

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Offline Essen1

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #673 on: September 15, 2011, 12:49:09 PM »
Went back to Avellino yesterday evening with a buddy of mine for more slices.

We both had a hard time pinpointing the flavors of the crust. The other difference I noticed was that the slices cracked on the bottom. The exterior of the crust was very crunchy but had a moist, almost creamy-like interior. I wasn't really able to detect any noticeable amounts of salt but we both agreed that the crust had some sugar in it. Salt was tougher.

The slices were great as usual. We didn't order a whole pie so I wasn't able to check on their bake times and noone else there ordered a whole one, either.

Sorry about the pic quality. They were taken with my and his cell phone. I also had to enhance a couple of them to show the crust a bit better.

I will have to go back and order a whole pie...
Mike

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Offline scott123

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #674 on: September 15, 2011, 01:52:01 PM »
Mike, great additional detective work. I'm curious, were the previous photos from Avellino's re-heated slices or were they from entire pies?

I know some people like that extra crispiness you get from reheating, but I like it floppy.

Offline Essen1

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #675 on: September 15, 2011, 02:08:54 PM »
Mike, great additional detective work. I'm curious, were the previous photos from Avellino's re-heated slices or were they from entire pies?

I know some people like that extra crispiness you get from reheating, but I like it floppy.

Scotty,

They were re-heated in a Baker's Pride for about 1 minute tops. The crust itself was very light despite the crunch and thinner than they look in the pics.
Mike

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Offline Essen1

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #676 on: September 19, 2011, 06:50:39 PM »
Just found this pic of an Avellino crust which shows the thickness, or thinness if you will, much better than in previous photos I have found.

Love all the tiny bubbles inside the crust.

http://sf.popsugar.com/Pizzeria-Avellino-11620777
Mike

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Offline Essen1

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #677 on: September 25, 2011, 06:55:39 PM »
I am currently working on a little “Avellino” crust project – yes, it's not all Luigi's all the time  ;D – and came up with an idea on how to, hopefully, best replicate the Avellino crust, it's lightness and it's crunch.

A few weeks ago I made one of those “Emergency doughs” and that crust had a great crunch, texture and was light. My mother back then mentioned that it was one of the better crusts I've made. So my train of thought was, why not take parts of that same formula, re-shuffle it a little and see what the end result will be.

The original formula can be found here: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7892.msg71897.html#msg71897

What I changed was the hydration, the oil amount, the size of the pie and the Thickness factor.

The original formula called for 56.5% water and I upped it to 60% while at the same time, subtracting the equal percentage amount of 3.5% from the oil amount, lowering it to just 3% instead of 6.5%. The TF went from 0.136 down to 0.075 for a NY-style pizza and the pizza size went up to 16 inches instead of 14 inches. That's pretty much it.

“Avellino” crust formula:

Flour (100%):
Water (60%):
ADY (1.5%):
Salt (1.75%):
Olive Oil (3%):
Sugar (4.4%):
Total (170.65%):
Single Ball:
759.07 g  |  26.77 oz | 1.67 lbs
455.44 g  |  16.06 oz | 1 lbs
11.39 g | 0.4 oz | 0.03 lbs | 3.01 tsp | 1 tbsp
13.28 g | 0.47 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.38 tsp | 0.79 tbsp
22.77 g | 0.8 oz | 0.05 lbs | 5.06 tsp | 1.69 tbsp
33.4 g | 1.18 oz | 0.07 lbs | 8.38 tsp | 2.79 tbsp
1295.35 g | 45.69 oz | 2.86 lbs | TF = 0.07575
431.78 g | 15.23 oz | 0.95 lbs

The procedure:

I activated all the ADY in a about a ¼ cup of the total amount of water, added 1 tsp of the total amount of sugar to it and let the yeast proof until it foamed. The water was the Crystal Geyser kind and was nuked to a 100°F. The rest of the water had a temp of 80°F, which went into the mixer's bowl, together with the salt, the rest of the sugar and the oil. Then the flour went in  and lastly the proofed yeast. I mixed everything together on Speed 2 for four minutes, gave the dough a rest for 20 and kneaded again for another four minutes, also on Speed 2. The dough came off the hook at 84°F.

It was shaped into a round and is currently proofing at an ambient temperature of  68°F. My thoughts on the baking temp are that I have to lower the temperature to perhaps 500°F since the dough contains a high amount of sugar. Don't want to end up with a burned disc.

More later...
Mike

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Offline Danes Dad

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #678 on: September 26, 2011, 03:52:27 PM »
Essen1,

When ordering a slice at Avellino's are the slices "made to order"?  From the pictures posted from your slice, the first a mushroom, the other an onion and the other magazine photo it looks like the toppings were placed on individual slices.

Danes Dad

Offline Essen1

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #679 on: September 26, 2011, 05:56:51 PM »
Essen1,

When ordering a slice at Avellino's are the slices "made to order"?  From the pictures posted from your slice, the first a mushroom, the other an onion and the other magazine photo it looks like the toppings were placed on individual slices.

Danes Dad

Danes Dad,

The pies from which the slices stem are pre-baked cheese pies and the toppings are added when you order.
Mike

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