Author Topic: Essen1's NY-style pizza project (Read 81753 times)

Jackitup · « **Reply #20 on:** March 29, 2009, 09:27:25 PM »

Well Mike I've had a few kills but not often enough that's for sure. Here's one I just pulled out of the oven for Sunday pot luck at the hospital tonite. It's a cracker crust that I named a White Pepperoni Supreme. Thought of it a couple nites ago. It has a "Jimmy's" Spinach Dip for the white sauce base, then thin sliced onions, caramelized portabella mushrooms, black olives, diced fresh tomatoes and of course pepperoni and topped with a blend of asiago, mozz, and cheddar. Haven't tried it yet, it's cooling in the garage, I'll post the popular vote from work tonite ;-)
Jon

PS, nice looking pies so far, you must be getting close

Essen1 · « **Reply #21 on:** March 30, 2009, 02:31:58 PM »

Jon,

That's an impressive pizza, bro! Interesting thing to use spinach dip as a base. Did you add something to it or did you just use it "as is"?

Jackitup · « **Reply #22 on:** March 31, 2009, 12:45:41 AM »

Hey Mike,
Nothing added to the spinach dip except the toppings as listed above, also had some pizza seasoning tossed on it too. My homemade spinach dip would have been better but that Jimmy's brand ain't bad and I didn't want to take the time to make homemade.. From the time I cut the pie up (into small squares so everyone could get some) it took about 30 minutes and it dissapeared like a magic trick!! No one even bothered to heat it up. Most said it was the best pie they ever had, I thought it was real good but I think most of us here are spoiled and look for that "perfect pie" as you say, and even very good pies to others are average to us. All and all, one I will surely make again.
Jon

dbgtr · « **Reply #23 on:** April 02, 2009, 06:40:58 PM »

Essen, I just tried making a batch of your dough as posted with the following percentages:

516 gr. KABF (100%)
330 gr. Water (64%)
10 gr. Sea Salt (1.9%)
10 gr. Olive Oil (1.9%)
3 gr. IDY (0.6%)
3 gr. Sugar (0.6%)

And it seemed really, really, sticky. The only modification I made was that I don't have any IDY so converted the quantities. I divided the water in half, dissolved the salt in one, and the sugar and ADY in the other at 105F. I combined everything in the KA Mixer on stir for two minutes, let it rest 20, and then on 2 for 10 minutes. Its still really sticky, as in there is dough stuck to the bottom of the bowl while the machine is running and its almost done mixing. Any thoughts? Is it supposed to be very, very sticky, almost like brioche?

David

tdeane · « **Reply #24 on:** April 02, 2009, 07:51:19 PM »

Quote from: Essen1 on March 18, 2009, 08:17:59 PM

Peter,

Thanks for the pointers. And the compliment!

I have only started out a couple of days ago to look a little deeper into their crust, but I knew about the fresh mozzarella, the dried marjoram instead of basil they use, the pecorino romano and the tomato sauce, which apparently Totonno's uses straight up with nothing added to it. And as far as I'm aware of, the sizes haven't changed, either. So I don't think much has changed at all.

I haven't gotten as far as the olive oil or the dough weight, but thanks for letting me in on it. Like I said, unfortunately I wasn't able to enjoy their crust first hand, but my estimate in regards to the doughball weight for a 14" crust was more in the range of 325gr. - 350 gr. The 400 gr. I used seemed way too much, hence the thicker crust.

In terms of the flour and what kind of fermentation they use, I'm still in the dark on this one. And it might be a tough thing to find out. But my guess is it must be a flour that can withstand the scorching heat of their oven. Maybe it's a combination of two flours?

Evelyne's restaurant isn't that far from me, just across the Bay bridge so perhaps a visit is in order and check out her Totonno's crust.

Either way, I think it is worth to look deeper into Totonno's crust since it is one of the greatest places for pizza in the U.S., especially when the weather gets better and I can use higher temps with my LBE.

Hi Essen,
I would recommend a 370g dough ball for a 14 inch pizza. That is what I use and it is quite thin. Definitely in line with the thickness of the good NY coal oven places. As far as flour goes, I would say judging by the light char in the photos, that Totonno's uses some sort of lower protein flour. Maybe bread flour or 00 mixed with something else. I'm not sure.

Essen1 · « **Reply #25 on:** April 04, 2009, 05:42:17 PM »

Terry,

Thanks much for the info. I'll give your suggestion a shot and will report back.

Dbgtr,

The dough's fairly moist but not overly wet to a point where you can't handle it. I had no problems managing the dough with the 1% increase in hydration. Maybe add a bit more flour to it.

NY pizzastriver · « **Reply #26 on:** April 05, 2009, 10:14:48 AM »

Just wanted to chime in and say Mike makes some Bad-A$$ looking ~NY pies~ !

Essen1 · « **Reply #27 on:** April 13, 2009, 04:28:14 PM »

Since I had a few days off over the Holiday weekend I took heed of Terry's suggestion to use an individual dough ball weight of 370 gr. for a 14" pie. I also kept the hydration at 64%, in line with Peter's suggestion a couple of weeks back.

I did a 24 hr cold rise, took the dough out of the fridge and balled it up right away and let the dough balls come up to room temp in my wooden proof box. The dough was very easy to handle and shape into skins. I made three pies, one was a Frutti di mare that my old man requested and had clams, tuna, shrimps and calamari on it, the next one was a plain cheese per the request by a neighbor and the one below (pics) was for myself, a mild Italian sausage one. I also put the mozzarella on first and then the sauce.

Here's the formula:

764 gr. KABF (100%)
489 gr. Water (64%)
14 gr. Sea salt (1.8%)
15 gr. organic sugar (2%)
8 gr. EVOO (1%)
2 gr. IDY (.3%)

Bake at 600° F for 7 minutes with one under the broiler for some additional color. Unfortunately I didn't get to take a pic of the bottom of the crust. The kneading procedure was the same as I describe in one of my earlier posts above and was based on Evelyne Slomon's advice, given on the PMQ forum.

JConk007 · « **Reply #28 on:** April 13, 2009, 05:27:04 PM »

Mike,
I am lovin the looks of #3 Like the way the cheese went first fresh mozz right?
Nicely done!
John

NY pizzastriver · « **Reply #29 on:** April 13, 2009, 07:45:10 PM »

Quote from: Essen1 on April 13, 2009, 04:28:14 PM

I also put the mozzarella on first and then the sauce.

Quote from: Pete-zza on March 28, 2009, 10:49:24 AM

I put the cheese down first and then the sauce, which also worked out well to protect the cheese from breaking down. I realize that that is not a NY style treatment. I believe it is more NJ style, which you may not want to dignify as a former New Yorker by adopting that style.

Dear Mike,

TRAITOR! Calling your 'Jersey pie' N.Y., HA!

Just kiddin', and these pies look better and better all the time.

Organic sugar eh? Iiiinteresting.

Essen1 · « **Reply #30 on:** April 13, 2009, 10:34:35 PM »

NYP,

Totonno's in NYC does it that way and I have found that it is actually a good way to eliminate that "gum line", the thin layer of undercooked or soggy dough right underneath the toppings.

The oil in the cheese does prevent the sauce and additional liquid from the toppings to seep deeper into the dough, which results in a crispier crust. But that's just my observation. Others might feel different about it.

But so far, I like it and it works for me.

John,

it was whole-milk, low-moisture mozzarella. I'll use fresh mozza when I fire up my LBE again.

Essen1 · « **Reply #31 on:** April 20, 2009, 03:27:13 PM »

Alright...

My folks have some family visiting from out of state and they're both pizza aficionados. My old man's wife's sister - and herself - grew up with Chicago Thin Crust and deep-dish pies but also have a deep love for a good NY-style pie. And the sister's boyfriend admitted to me that he enjoys a good pizza about twice a week from a place in his town that's run by an older Italian lady and sports a WFO. He said that her pies always have a nice char to it, are thin crust and overall some of the best pizza he's has so far.

Anyway, I thought I'd use the family as guinea pigs for a same-day 8 hr dough. I started at 11:00 am and had the first pizza on their table at around 7:00 pm, right on time for the Sharks - Ducks Hockey game. The ladies requested a greek-style pizza, which was topped with fresh red bellers, red onion, fresh garlic, Feta cheese, Kalamata Olives, marinated artichoke hearts and a generous dusting of oregano.

The second pie was a half & half per request by my old man and the sister's BF. It featured mushrooms, fresh garlic Kalamata olives on the entire pizza and then one half was topped with mild Italian sausage & Calabrese salami, and the other half was a tuna, red onion type.

Unfortunately, I didn't take any individual pics of both pizzas but managed to record two videos, capturing the remarks of what the family thought of those pies. I apologize for the lighting but it was taken with my digital cam and the quality lacked a little. But I'm sure you can hear their comments...

Here are the two vids:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Nct21BhWQs" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Nct21BhWQs</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnMsyKUpfwk" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnMsyKUpfwk</a>

Don't mind my yapping in the background!

And here's the formula I used:

802 gr. KABF (100%)
514 gr. Warm water - 95° F (64%)
16 gr. Kosher salt (2%)
12 gr. Organic sugar (1.5%)
12 gr. Garlic-flavored olive oil (1.5%)
4 gr. IDY (.5%)

Single ball: 340 gr. / 14" / Thin crust

I dissolved the sugar in the water first with a whisk then added 75% of the flour and IDY. Using the paddle I mixed it until I had a thick, batter-like consistency. I covered the bowl with a damp tea towel for an hour and then added the rest of the flour, the salt and the oil. I used garlic-infused oil because it adds a bit to the flavor of the crust and since it wasn't a longer cold-rise over a few days time, it's a great alternative imho.

After everything was incorporated, I kneaded the dough for 10 mins on Speed 2 and let it rest again for 30 mins, then another knead for 5 mins, balled it up and in the fridge it went for about two hours. After that time, I took it out, immediately divided it into four balls and proofed them in my wooden proof box for the remainder of the time.
I kept the proof box in the fridge for approx. another 90 mins before I let them come up too room temp.

I preheated my oven for about an hour before the first pizza went in. The crust was very light and airy but had a nice crunch and chew to it. It had some nice coloring, a little char here and there and it yielded great oven spring. Bake time was 7 mins for the first one and 9 mins for the second. Overall, I think it was a good same-day dough.

NY pizzastriver · « **Reply #32 on:** April 20, 2009, 03:43:40 PM »

Mike, yep, hockey on TV alright. It looks like they loved it man, well done.

Sushi, the dog, reminds me of a Nick Drake song.

Anyway, nice post!

Pete-zza · « **Reply #33 on:** April 20, 2009, 04:31:42 PM »

J,

I think Mike dubbed all of the voices, other than his own, from German to English.

Peter

NY pizzastriver · « **Reply #34 on:** April 20, 2009, 05:20:34 PM »

Quote from: Pete-zza on April 20, 2009, 04:31:42 PM

J,

I think Mike dubbed all of the voices, other than his own, from German to English.

Peter

Good one! Yes, I think he had to. If you listen closely you suddenly hear "dieses schmeckt schrecklich" but then some American voice comes in over it saying how fresh it is.

Essen1 · « **Reply #35 on:** April 20, 2009, 06:08:06 PM »

Quote from: Pete-zza on April 20, 2009, 04:31:42 PM

J,

I think Mike dubbed all of the voices, other than his own, from German to English.

Peter

Ah jeez....was it that obvious? Damn.

But I think I got that Northern Mich./Canada/Northern Wisc. area accent right, eh?

Quote

If you listen closely you suddenly hear "dieses schmeckt schrecklich" but then some American voice comes in over it saying how fresh it is.

Jim,

You're right. The pies were absolutely atrocious. Completely inedible and brackish. I had to pay them big bucks for them to force those couple of pizzas down their respective throats!

sourdough girl · « **Reply #36 on:** April 20, 2009, 06:52:28 PM »

Quote from: Pete-zza on April 20, 2009, 04:31:42 PM

J,

I think Mike dubbed all of the voices, other than his own, from German to English.

Peter

See what you started, Peter? Ain't it great?

Quote from: Essen1 on April 20, 2009, 06:08:06 PM

Ah jeez....was it that obvious? Damn.

But I think I got that Northern Mich./Canada/Northern Wisc. area accent right, eh?

Jim,

You're right. The pies were absolutely atrocious. Completely inedible and brackish. I had to pay them big bucks for them to force those couple of pizzas down their respective throats!

And even BIGGER bucks to say something nice??

Seriously, thanks for a couple of great vids, Mike, and the chance for a good chuckle! A smile a day keeps the doctor away! It's always nice to see ppl truly enjoying the pizza that someone else made for them... of course, what are they GOING to say with you standing right there, camera in hand??

~sd

NY pizzastriver · « **Reply #37 on:** April 20, 2009, 07:02:41 PM »

Quote from: sourdough girl on April 20, 2009, 06:52:28 PM

of course, what are they GOING to say with you standing right there, camera in hand??

~sd

saying...

"So whadaya think, ya like it right!? What's better my pizza or Domino's? Cool, OK mine or Godfather's, remember them, yeah a lot of them closed, I'm still here, so mine's way better right? If you could eat my pizza or a 3 pound Maine lobster which would you want? If God came down and said ''You can come to heaven now but you have to stop eating the pizza and leave this very second'' you'd stay right?..."

Juuust kiddin' Mike.

Essen1 · « **Reply #38 on:** April 20, 2009, 08:12:29 PM »

Quote

If God came down and said ''You can come to heaven now but you have to stop eating the pizza and leave this very second'' you'd stay right?..."

LOL!

I know the folks are in their respected late 50s to early 60s but do they look that old??

Well, I know they're family, and family always tends to be more forgiving than anyone else, but I always ask them to be brutally honest and usually they are. And if they are, it's always some sort of constructive criticism, but I think in my early days of pizza making I'm sure there were several occasions where they thought "God, this one sucks! Do I really have to eat that??" But it's gotten better albeit gradually.

NY pizzastriver · « **Reply #39 on:** April 21, 2009, 07:21:31 AM »

Quote from: Essen1 on April 20, 2009, 08:12:29 PM

I know the folks are in their respected late 50s to early 60s but do they look that old??

No man, it had nothing to do with ages. I believe if they were 30 you'd still state that your pizza is better than going to heaven.