Author Topic: Pizza Hut Pan and Dry Milk question  (Read 7434 times)

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Offline loowaters

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Pizza Hut Pan and Dry Milk question
« on: March 13, 2009, 10:45:34 AM »
I could've just PM'd Peter on this but thinking others might benefit from having this question answered, I'm posting it here. 

Peter in your bakers % PH Pan here http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4607.msg38909.html#msg38909 you mention the differences in types of dry milk used and show that, quote, "If the bakerís grade dry non-fat milk is available, the amount to use in the above dough formulation is about 2 1/4 teaspoons." 

For comparative purposes that's a reduction from 2.05 TABLEspoons.  Doing a little math on this I found that the % baker's grade DNFM would be 1.376%, down from the 2.351% shown in the formulation.  Does that sound right? I'm not exactly in the know on all the different types of dry milk but I'd hate to be adding too much if just replacing one with the other following the same percentage.   

Loo
Using pizza to expand my waistline since 1969!


Online Pete-zza

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Re: Pizza Hut Pan and Dry Milk question
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2009, 12:58:54 PM »
Loo,

There are six different forms of dried milk powder in the nutritiondata.com database. All are for nonfat dry milk powder, except for one--for whole milk. But there is nothing that I could find at nutritiondata.com for baker's grade dry milk powder. As I may have noted before, I mentioned the baker's grade nonfat dry milk powder as an option for the Pizza Hut clone pan pizza dough because that is what Pizza Hut most probably ordered from its commercial suppliers to make its original pan pizza doughs. As you may know, the current PH pan pizza dough product is a frozen product and does not contain any milk, but does use whey, which is a dairy product.

In the dough calculating tools that include nonfat dry milk powder as a listed ingredient, I used the packaging information for the Carnation's nonfat dry milk powder with vitamin A added to come up with the weight/volume conversion data. I chose that brand because it appeared to be the most common brand of retail dry milk powder product that I could find in the supermarkets near me. In this case, the data I used from the Carnation packaging information is the same as appears in the nutritiondata.com database, which I confirmed again this morning.

To get the corresponding data for the baker's grade dry milk powder, I am pretty sure I weighed some baker's grade dry milk powder that I had ordered from some online source, simply because baker's grade dry milk powder is not something sold in most supermarkets. Somewhere along the way, I also discovered that the Bob's Red Mill brand of nonfat dry milk powder (http://www.bobsredmill.com/product.php?productid=3654&cat=0&page=1), which can be found in some supermarkets, is baker's grade, or so I was told by a Bob's Red Mill customer service rep when I called. Unfortunately, the packaging information for that brand provides only nutrition information for a cup of the reconstituted milk, not a volumetric serving size and corresponding weight from which to determine the weight of one teaspoon of that product (e.g., 1/3 cup weighs "x" grams). Absent that kind of information, I would have to weigh a sample of the Bob's Red Mill nonfat dry milk powder. I don't have that product on hand but if someone else does and can conduct several weighings of a fixed quantity, say, 1/4-cup, and tell me the average of the weighings, I'd be happy to amend the post you referenced to provide the specific volumetric information for that brand. Or for any other brand for that matter. If I have any of my brand of the baker's grade dry milk powder left, I can also do a re-weighing to confirm the data I originally posted.

Peter

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Re: Pizza Hut Pan and Dry Milk question
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2009, 03:43:49 PM »
If I have any of my brand of the baker's grade dry milk powder left, I can also do a re-weighing to confirm the data I originally posted.



Loo,

I went back and did a re-weighing of the baker's nonfat dry milk that I have been using (Prepared Pantry house brand), and the numbers were in line with what I used before to come up with 2 1/4 teaspoons for the dough formulation you referenced.

The next time I am at the supermarket, I plan to check the regular (non-instant) form of nonfat dry milk to confirm the numbers for that form of dry milk powder also.

You might be interested in knowing that when I was researching the PH pan pizza dough product some time ago, I found what appeared to be a version of the fresh dough formulation that PH used somewhere for its pan pizza doughs. That formulation called for a "dairy blend" that includes "whey, nonfat milk, buttermilk". If you are interested, you can buy a 50-lb. bag of such a dairy blend at Dutch Valley at http://www.dutchvalleyfoods.com/food/ItemDetail.aspx/ItemID/129fb46d-3f5f-43a0-8aef-39f33e4d8a70 ;D.

Peter

Offline Randy

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Re: Pizza Hut Pan and Dry Milk question
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2009, 09:39:52 AM »
I've played around with mixing grocery store buttermilk powder and grocery store low fat powdered milk.  Too much buttermilk powder seems to make things gummy.  Currently for like pancakes I use an equal mixture of both.  I've not tried this blend on my experimental Chicago style pizza using the pizza hut pan pizza recipe.

Randy

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Re: Pizza Hut Pan and Dry Milk question
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2009, 10:07:30 AM »
The next time I am at the supermarket, I plan to check the regular (non-instant) form of nonfat dry milk to confirm the numbers for that form of dry milk powder also.


Yesterday, while I was at my favorite supermarket--a high-end "lifestyle" type supermarket owned by Safeway and one that carries the broadest and widest selection of food products of just about any market outside of Dallas--I looked for the section where the dry milk powders were kept. It took me close to a half hour of walking up and down aisles scanning all of the products in search of the dry milk powders. I finally found the section. There were no Carnation dry milk powders to be found at all, only about a half-dozen small boxes of the house brand of nonfat dry milk powder. And they were on the absolute bottom shelf occupying a space of less than one square foot, where I had to get down on my hands and knees to see them. As it turned out, when I returned to my upright position to examine the packaging information, the house brand of the dry milk powder was the same from a volume to weight conversion standpoint as the Carnation dry milk powder that I reported on earlier. Apparently people are not clamoring for dry milk powders, at least not in my neighborhood. I will perhaps have to go to a "low-scale" market in search of the product, on the assumption that lower income people drink or otherwise use reconstituted dry milk.

Peter
« Last Edit: March 15, 2009, 06:03:04 PM by Pete-zza »

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Re: Pizza Hut Pan and Dry Milk question
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2009, 06:17:57 PM »
I will perhaps have to go to a "low-scale" market in search of the product, on the assumption that lower income people drink or otherwise use reconstituted dry milk.
 


Today, I checked a lower-end supermarket near me that caters primarily to Hispanics to see if they stocked any dry milk products. I found the Carnation nonfat dry milk powder as previously reported, and a comparable house brand as well, but I also found a Nestle instant dry whole milk product called Nido, which looks to be a product marketed primarily to Hispanics (most of the label information is in Spanish). Based on the conversion data on the packaging (1/4 c. = 30 grams), it would take 3 1/2 teaspoons if used in the dough formulation given at Reply 6 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4607.msg38909.html#msg38909.

I still believe that it might be useful to have corresponding usage information for the Bob's Red Mill brand of nonfat dry milk. I could then revise Reply 6 to include that information. It appears that the non-instant dry milk products are no longer available in my area.

Peter

Offline loowaters

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Re: Pizza Hut Pan and Dry Milk question
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2009, 06:46:51 AM »
So much information.  My head is spinning!

First, I guess I should have mentioned in making the adjustment that I was assuming the weight/unit of volume (mass?) of the two products would be the same.  I came away assuming that the baker's grade was more concentrated milk product thus the reduction in the formula.

Second, thank you Peter once again for going above and beyond in trying to figure all this out.  I've been thinking about tinkering with making the PH pan not to neccessarily achieve a PH pan but to come up with something over on the Chicago Style page for the Pequod/Burt's style of pie which some have identified some similarities.

Loo
Using pizza to expand my waistline since 1969!

Offline Randy

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Re: Pizza Hut Pan and Dry Milk question
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2009, 06:05:10 PM »
Loo, they are indeed not the same if we are talking of baker's dry milk powder.  Reinhardt's in hid BBA book uses baker's drymilk solids.

1/4 cup= 1.25 oz

Randy