Author Topic: Pete-zza Need Help with Dough Formulation  (Read 26296 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24020
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Pete-zza Need Help with Dough Formulation
« Reply #25 on: April 22, 2009, 11:23:15 PM »
Peter,
Thanks you for helping me understand the two methods.  I will let you know next week what happens.  I  can't let the dough ferment in the deli case more than one day because the farmer's market is closed Saturday's and Sunday's.  I will decide by next week what to do.
Norma


Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 23353
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Pete-zza Need Help with Dough Formulation
« Reply #26 on: April 23, 2009, 11:43:06 AM »
Norma,

If you have been making one-day Lehmann NY style doughs, I can see how they might not be as extensible as doughs with materially longer fermentations.

As I see it, at this point you have the following options: 1) use your current dough formulation but start the dough sooner (if you start three or more days in advance of use, it may be necessary to reduce the amount of yeast); 2) use the current dough formulation but increase the amount of yeast and the hydration, as previously suggested; 3) use the current dough formulation but use a warm-up period before putting the dough balls into the cooler, along the lines suggested by your customer who was a former pizza maker. The results of these three options won't be identical, so some experimentation will be required to determine which one is best for your particular operation. As I mentioned earlier, you ideally want to have only one dough making/management system or protocol that you use over and over again as much as possible.

Peter

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24020
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Pete-zza Need Help with Dough Formulation
« Reply #27 on: April 23, 2009, 01:01:19 PM »
Peter,
OK, I will use my current formulation and see what happens this coming week by letting it sit out.  If that doesn't work, I will use your other two methods.  I will experiment with your ideas until I get a formulation that I can use over and over.  Customers really like the taste of the crust, so if I can learn to proof it right, then I won't have the problems with the opening of the skin.  I will read more posts on this forum and learn more.  There are so many ideas here and so many great looking pizzas.  I will I could taste each one! :pizza:
Norma

Offline Flagpull

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 169
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Pete-zza Need Help with Dough Formulation
« Reply #28 on: April 23, 2009, 06:22:58 PM »
Norma,

We'd all love to see some more pictures of the rest of your shop, oven, counter, everything!

Philip

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24020
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Pete-zza Need Help with Dough Formulation
« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2009, 06:04:12 AM »
Philip,
I am at our local farmer's market one day a week.  I don't have a lot of pictures right now.  Since I am a newbie, I don't know how to post multiple pictures or if I am allowed.  Thanks for asking.
Norma

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24020
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Pete-zza Need Help with Dough Formulation
« Reply #30 on: April 25, 2009, 09:20:25 PM »
Peter,
I was talking to my favorite pizza man around here yesterday.  He asked me how I am doing with my place.  I told him about my problems with my dough.  I told him what formulation you had given me.  He told me you don't use olive oil to make the dough, but to use vegetable oil.  How does that sound to you?  He is Italian and own his own pizzeria.  His pizza is great NY style.  He has been making pizza for many years.  He also told me he puts the IDY directly in with the water and salt.  He made me feel a little better about my dough saying he also has problems with his dough from time to time.  He asked to see what formulation you gave me and I told him I would copy it and take it to him.  I will let you know what he says.  We talked awhile and he gave me more advise and said some day when he isn't so busy he will come over to my stand.
Norma

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 23353
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Pete-zza Need Help with Dough Formulation
« Reply #31 on: April 25, 2009, 10:54:04 PM »
Norma,

Since the Lehmann NY style dough formulation calls for olive oil, I did not suggest changing that. However, most pizza operators use vegetable oil simply because it is cheaper than olive oil. I once advised a pizza operator who was using extra virgin olive oil to switch to vegetable oil but he told me that he used only the best ingredients to make his pizzas and he liked the olive oil and did not want to change to a cheaper product. I suggested that he consider a pomace olive oil, which is a cheaper grade of olive oil. He made the change and said that he couldn't tell the difference. So, he made the switch. Often, pizza operators who like olive oil will use a blend of olive oil and canola oil as a lower cost compromise solution. A typical blend is 20% olive oil (it can be a pomace olive oil) and 80% canola oil. Tom Lehmann is frequently asked about the types of oil to use in pizza doughs. A typical reply on that matter appears in the middle of the following PMQ Think Tank post: http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?p=13122#13122.

With respect to the use of the IDY, it can be added to the water if desired but it is not necessary to do so. IDY contains far fewer dead yeast cells than ADY and has a different geometry that allows it to be added directly to the flour and other dry ingredients. Also, Tom Lehmann does not believe in adding any yeast to water that also contains salt because of the osmotic pressure that salt exerts on the yeast. However, in your case, if you dissolve the salt in the water before adding the IDY and you promptly add the flour and other dry ingredients, you should be OK. That is the method used by Neapolitan pizza makers. For Tom's position on the matter of mixing yeast, salt and water (and also sugar), see his PMQ Think Tank post at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?p=3304#3304.

When you see your favorite pizza man, you might want to toss the words "osmotic pressure" around to show him that you are an erudite pizza maker who had done her homework 8). You might also give him copies of Tom's PMQTT posts. Maybe you can even ask him for a copy of his dough recipe for us to examine ;D.

Peter
« Last Edit: April 25, 2009, 11:16:35 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24020
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Pete-zza Need Help with Dough Formulation
« Reply #32 on: April 26, 2009, 07:38:29 AM »
Peter,
Thank you for the advice.  I am going to stick with my olive oil.  I use Filippo Berrio extra light olive oil.  I have used that for years in my home cooking and I also had a stand at the farmer's market that I made all kind of fresh salsas and used that olive oil in my fresh salsas.  I love the taste.  Since I live in a very conservative area, many people here aren't into salsas, even though it is the number one condiment in the US now. I even had authentic tortilla chips shipped in from Arizona that were great.  I have had a funnel cake, fresh dipped ice cream and Mexican Food Stand outside the market, too.  I sold that because it was only in the summer months.  After I tried the salsa stand and even had some dedicated salsa fans, it didn't pay to keep it.  That took all fresh ingredients, too. For about 26 years my husband and I had a caramel corn stand where we made fresh caramel popcorn all kinds of ways, (stir the old fashioned way in a copper kettle) kettle corn, sugar-free caramel corn, brittles, fudge, cotton candy, snow cones and old-fashioned clear toy candy. That stand was in my husbands family since 1928.  An Amish man bought the stands from me. That was a good business at market.  When my husband became ill, I couldn't keep up that stand because we had two markets and stirring and lifting the kettle all day was too much for me. I hated to leave that business, but I couldn't do it without my husband. That is why I have changed to pizza. There is no fresh pizza dough stand at the market and the manager wanted a fresh dough pizza stand.  I thought I have done many things in my life and researched them and then they were successful.  We have always used the best ingredients and now thinking about it, why wouldn't I use the best in the pizza, too.   Everyone so far has said they love the taste of the dough and the sauce. I have started a fresh herb garden so all my basil, parsley and other herbs will be fresh.  Now all I have to do is practice and since I really like the recipe you gave me, just listen to you and make the adjustments I need to make.  I will copy and print out the posts on PMQ think tank you have directed me to.  I will give them to my local pizza man and see what he says about osmotic pressure.  :o I sure am learning a lot with your help!  :D  I am going to take your advise and not add the IDY to the water and salt.  There are enough other things that can go wrong, so I want to keep my variables to a minimum.  Thanks again for all your help.  I have always loved pizza, but never knew what can go into making a great pizza.  I will continue to try my best to produce a great pizza.  This week is going to be very warm here, so do I need to adjust my yeast accordingly?  I will be making the dough tomorrow morning.  ???  Since there is no air conditioning at the market, it will be hot.
Norma

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24020
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Pete-zza Need Help with Dough Formulation
« Reply #33 on: April 26, 2009, 08:59:43 AM »
Peter,
I have been toying with the idea of making Mexican pizza.  I did make that at my funnel cake, and Mexican food stand.  I had used pita's and make my own sauce, that I added taco mix to, then mozzarella and then fresh salsa. If people wanted jalapenos,  peppers or onions I would add them. Many people enjoyed them.  Do you think with my fresh dough pizza, this could be a added addition or do you think I should just stick with fresh dough?  This was easy to make and I had a flat plated panni grill I used, but could use the pizza oven now.  If you know anyone that wants this recipe, I would be happy to share it with them.  This forum has helped me so much, if I can help anyone else, I would be happy to share.
Norma 


Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 23353
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Pete-zza Need Help with Dough Formulation
« Reply #34 on: April 26, 2009, 10:46:46 AM »
Norma,

I was just kidding about the osmotic pressure and making copies of Tom's posts to show to your pizza friend. I am sure that he can help you a lot with the day-to-day challenges that you are likely to encounter as you try to perfect your product in your particular setting. Having read Tom Lehmann's stuff for years, I have come to the conclusion that his advice to pizza operators is intentionally conservative. I believe his advice is calculated in good measure to keep them out of trouble as much as possible. There are many ways of making pizza dough but there are some methods that are higher risk than others and more likely to lead to problems or failure. If Tom encouraged those other methods, I believe he would find himself having to spend much more time--time he doesn't really have--correcting their problems. It would be one thing if he were being paid to diagnose and fix problems, but most of the people who seek him out are looking for free advice.

On the matter of adjusting the amount of yeast because of the warmer weather, if your deli case or cooler is able to maintain a fairly constant temperature, you will perhaps be OK for a one day dough. Before reducing the amount of yeast, you might try using a cooler water since the finished dough temperature is likely to be higher because of the warmer room/flour temperature. If you decide to let the dough warm up before going to the cooler, you can also cut back on the warm-up time. You will perhaps also discover that your dough balls will warm up faster in the non-airconditioned area where you will be making the pizzas.

I am not the best one to ask about marketing issues and what your customers might like in the way of specialty pizzas/pitas. Maybe that is something you can consider once you have mastered the dough making/management procedures and have had a chance to get feedback from your customers on which products they might like.

Peter

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24020
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Pete-zza Need Help with Dough Formulation
« Reply #35 on: April 26, 2009, 05:00:34 PM »
Peter,
Thanks, and I will let you know how it goes this week. I know I have so much to learn and am lucky to have you, other people on this forum and my pizza man to help me.
Norma

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24020
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Pete-zza Need Help with Dough Formulation
« Reply #36 on: May 01, 2009, 03:09:00 AM »
Peter,
My recent trial dough from Monday was a surprise, Tuesday.  When I arrived at market the dough had pushed the lids off and the dough was squeezing out the sides.  :(  I reworked the dough into balls and let it rest for a few hours.  I will have to make more adjustments for this week.  I am going to lessen the amount of yeast, give the dough after the mixer an hour rest, and then put it in the deli case.  Do you have any ideas?
Norma

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 23353
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Pete-zza Need Help with Dough Formulation
« Reply #37 on: May 01, 2009, 08:48:32 AM »
Norma,

Can you tell me how you made and managed the latest dough batch?

Peter

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24020
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Pete-zza Need Help with Dough Formulation
« Reply #38 on: May 01, 2009, 09:35:16 PM »
Peter,
I managed this dough by using the Lehman recipe you gave me for 10 lb. batches.  I used 100 degree water, olive oil and weighed the ingredients on a digital scale.  I first mixed the salt and water, then added the flour and yeast that were mixed together, then added the olive oil.  I made 5 batches of dough.  When I had finished the first batch the temperature of the dough was 86 degrees (which was too hot)  I then used cooler water and still my batches weren't coming out at around 80 degrees.  Probably because of the warmer weather.  I let the dough rest for an hour and then formed the balls.  I made sure I closed the balls on the bottom and then coated them with a little olive oil.  Would it be a good idea to put less yeast in the batches?  ???  The ball sizes had increased by about 4 times.  Thanks for your help.
Norma

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 23353
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Pete-zza Need Help with Dough Formulation
« Reply #39 on: May 01, 2009, 09:50:26 PM »
Norma,

Can you tell me what the temperature of the room is where you make your dough, the water temperature you used for the last batch of dough, and the temperature of the cooler or deli case where you store the dough balls?

Peter

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24020
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Pete-zza Need Help with Dough Formulation
« Reply #40 on: May 01, 2009, 10:31:40 PM »
Peter,
I don't know exactly what the room temperature was, but I thought it was around 75 degrees.  The last batch of finished dough was 83 degrees and the water temperature I used was 89 degrees.  The one deli case was at 40 degrees and the pizza prep cooler was 38 degrees.
Norma

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 23353
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Pete-zza Need Help with Dough Formulation
« Reply #41 on: May 02, 2009, 10:26:28 AM »
Norma,

Based on your last two posts, I believe that your problem was temperature related rather than a yeast quantity issue. At some point you may want to adjust the amount of yeast but that would be more to lock in your dough formulation. For now, I would rather see you try to solve the problem from the water temperature standpoint.

Before proceeding further, did you remember to cross stack your dough boxes? Failure to do that is a common cause of dough balls exploding in volume.

In the instructions for the Lehmann dough formulation I referenced, Tom talks about achieving a desired finished dough temperature, but he does not say how to do it. However, in this article, http://www.pmq.com/mag/2003spring/tom_lehmann.shtml, he covers that subject. The calculations in that article are not a perfect solution but if you make the dough from beginning to end without major interruptions, I believe that with experience, and a tweak here or there, you should be able to determine the water temperature to use to achieve the desired finished dough temperature (80-85 degrees F) for each dough batch. In the article, Tom assumes a mixer friction factor of 40 degrees F. From the data you gave in the last couple of posts, it seems that your mixer's friction factor is less than 40. You might want to use your next batch of dough to actually calculate the friction factor of your particular Hobart mixer. To do this, just make a regular dough batch and note the water temperature you use, the room temperature, the flour temperature (which is usually about the same as room temperature if the flour is kept near the mixer), and the finished dough temperature. Then, calculate the friction factor (FF) from this expression:

FF = (3 x actual finished dough temperature) - Room temperature - Flour Temperature - actual Water Temperature used

Using the above expression with the data you provided in your last post, I get FF = (3 x 83) - 75 -75 - 89 = 10 degrees F. That value seems too low to me based on FF values that I have read about before for Hobart mixers. For example, one chart that I saw that is used to calculate water temperatures in the above types of situations uses a FF of 25. In a similar (but abbreviated) chart at page 6 of a General Mills brochure at http://www.gmflour.com/gmflour/PDFs/Website%20A49104%20Just%20Crust%20Brochure.pdf, the FF value is 15 degrees F. I think it will be useful for you to nail down the specific FF value for your mixer.

Once you get the FF value, and assuming that you thereafter make the same size dough batches, you should be able to use that FF value to calculate the water temperature needed to achieve the desired finished dough temperature for future dough batches, along the lines discussed in Tom's article. You will also want to observe the behavior of your dough when using, or not using, a bench warm-up time for the dough balls before they go into the cooler so that you can determine whether it will be necessary to make further adjustments. For the next try, you might use the bench warm-up time for the dough balls since you are using only one day of cold fermentation.

Peter

EDIT (1/25/13 and 2/4/2013): Since the link to the above Lehmann article is no longer operative, see the Wayback Machine link to the same article at http://web.archive.org/web/20080121222646/http://www.pmq.com/mag/2003spring/article.php?story=tom_lehmann; for an updated like to the General Mills chart, see http://www.professionalbakingsolutions.com/water-temperature-chart

« Last Edit: February 04, 2013, 02:49:20 PM by Pete-zza »


Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24020
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Pete-zza Need Help with Dough Formulation
« Reply #42 on: May 02, 2009, 05:58:40 PM »
Peter,
Thank you for all the information.  I will study over it this weekend and try the adjustments you have guided me to.  I never knew before how critical dough management would be.  The FF factor it so critical, too.  I need to look over that, too.  I will let you know how it goes this week.
Norma

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 23353
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Pete-zza Need Help with Dough Formulation
« Reply #43 on: May 02, 2009, 06:27:07 PM »
Norma,

I take the finished dough temperature of just about every dough I make, even though it isn't nearly as critical in a home setting as it is in a commercial setting where you need consistency in the nature and quality of the dough. However, knowing the finished dough temperature tells me whether I may have to make water temperature adjustments the next time, especially as the seasons change, and also what I might expect the dough to do during its fermentation. I sometimes also adjust the amount of yeast but that is not something you usually want to do in a commercial setting, especially if you are using workers to make the dough who do not understand the chemistry of yeast and dough. Once you are able to achieve the desired finished dough temperature on a fairly consistent basis, that is when you might look at your dough formulation to see if changes in yeast quantity are needed or desirable. Adjusting the bench warm-up time before putting the dough balls in the cooler is another way of adjusting for temperature changes.

Peter

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24020
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Pete-zza Need Help with Dough Formulation
« Reply #44 on: May 21, 2009, 11:20:20 PM »
Peter,
I have been trying different things to improve my dough.  The dough seems easier to handle now, but I had one batch this week that had blown out.  I think I might have let it sit out to long before forming the skins.  The dough is more opened hole in the crust now.  My pizza man suggested I try to use sugar in the recipe you gave me.  He said to add another time the amount of salt.  I have been using that with good results.  I am now using dark screens to put my dough on before going to the oven.  I can make the pizza on the peel, but feel more confident using the screen.  I take the pizza off the peel about a minute before it is finished.  I still don't get the sauce exactly right on the pizza because I am rushing to keep up with making the pizzas.  I still am not fast, but getting better at stretching the skins.  I am using semolina mixed with bench flour to start opening the skins and then use bench flour if needed.  What do you think of using semolina mixed with bench flour first?  I am working on the water temperature when I make my dough.  It is getting more consistant.  I have been reading posts from you and Tom and really want to know if the veil test is the best thing to use in finding out if the dough is mixed enough.  I will try that this week.  I didn't get much time this week to take any pictures, but here is one of a part of pizza.  The pizza is finally getting like a New York Style pizza in that it folds in half and is really thin. I will keep working on the pizza and let you know how it goes. Thanks, again for your help.
Norma

Offline smarttowers

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 120
Re: Pete-zza Need Help with Dough Formulation
« Reply #45 on: May 22, 2009, 12:07:14 AM »
Norma I have to say if that pizza was sitting out where I could see it I'd have to buy me at least a slice. That looks DELICIOUS.

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 23353
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Pete-zza Need Help with Dough Formulation
« Reply #46 on: May 22, 2009, 09:32:28 AM »
Norma,

I am not sure what you mean by the sentence "He said to add another time the amount of salt." Do you mean doubling the amount of salt or using the same amount of sugar by percent as the salt? Once you clarify the above statement, I can answer more fully.

On the matter of adding sugar to the dough formulation, Tom Lehmann does not ordinarily suggest doing that for a dough that is to be baked on a stone surface, such as used in a deck oven. The reason is that the sugar can cause the bottom of the pizza crust to brown prematurely, and even burn. Pulling the pizza from the oven once the bottom of the crust starts to turn dark might leave the top of the pizza underbaked. Tom does suggest using sugar in the dough formulation if the dough is to be held for more than about two to three days before using. In that case, the sugar is used to insure that the yeast is adequately fed and also to contribute to crust color development. In your case, since you are building your pizzas on pizza screens and baking the pizzas (on the screens) directly on the stone and then "decking" the pizzas onto the stone toward the end of the bake (one minute before the end), you might be able to get away with including some sugar in the dough. Did your pizza man say why you should add sugar to the dough?

With respect to the "veil" test you mentioned, I do not use that for the doughs that I make using my standard home KitchenAid mixer. I have learned through experience how to tell when the dough is "just right". The test that Tom prescribes is perhaps better suited to the much higher-quality doughs made using commercial mixers. I believe there is a video somewhere in which Tom shows this test. If you want me to try to find the video, let me know.

I'm not sure I fully understand your questions about the semolina/flour combination but I don't see any problems with using a semolina/flour blend on the bench when opening up the dough balls. That is what Papa John's does except that they also use some vegetable (soybean) oil in their blend (I believe the oil is used to keep the flours from going airborne too much and messing up their air-conditioning system). With semolina flour, you will also have to periodically clean out your oven to get rid of any burned semolina.

I agree with smarttowers that your pizza looks delicious. Have you been getting a good reception from the consumers of your pizzas?

Peter

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 23353
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Pete-zza Need Help with Dough Formulation
« Reply #47 on: May 22, 2009, 10:18:17 AM »
Norma,

Further to my last post, to read more about using sugar in pizza dough, see the Tom Lehmann posts at the PMQ Think Tank at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?p=30032#30032 and at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?p=26890#26890. I think the latter thread is one of the best I have read anywhere on the subject of the role of sugar in a pizza dough.

Peter

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24020
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Pete-zza Need Help with Dough Formulation
« Reply #48 on: May 22, 2009, 12:57:27 PM »
Peter and Smartowers,
Thanks for saying the pizza looks delicious.  People are very receptive to our pizza.  They are all saying it is very good.  I watch people taste it and then they say, they really like the sauce and thin crust.  Stand holders keep coming back each week to buy the pizza.  They really like it, too.  Before my pizza stand there was only frozen pizza at the market, so I guess it is a lot better than that.  Each week our sales are going up.  That is a good thing, unless I can't keep up making the pizzas.  I still have the dough pro, which I am not using.  I wanted to be able to open the skins by hand.  I might have to use it in the future if I don't get fast enough.  I have someone else putting the topping on and putting the pizza in and out of the oven. School will soon be over here and then many school children and tourists will come.
My pizza man told me to use twice the amount of sugar that I do of salt.  So using .11 lbs of salt, I am now using .22 lb of sugar.  I am still using the 10 lb. batches of dough. I now am up to 5 mixes or 50 lb. for a day.  I can understand Tom's and your reasonings why not to use sugar, but I have to ask my pizza man why he uses sugar.  I will the next time I see him.  It seemed to make the dough more airy.  Either it was that or now I am getting the formulation better.  My pizza man has family that comes over from Italy to help him sometimes and I know he has worked at many pizza places before starting his own business.  I will see what he has to say.  Is it I am getting the formulation better now that I am getting the rim of the crust to be more airy?  Even the rim now tastes great by itself.  I still have much to learn and will keep on trying to get my pizza better.
Yes, I would like to see the video of the veil test that Tom did, if you can find it.  Since I am new to making pizza, maybe that could help me know when my dough is mixed enough.  When my mixer mixes the dough it usually doesn't leave any residue in the bowl.  I just can't really understand when to stop mixing.  I usually guess. 
I am using a sauce combination of pizza sauce and 7/11 ground tomatoes.  To that I add onions, garlic, fresh basil, fresh parsley, fresh oregano,  kosher salt, sugar, ground pepper, crushed red peppers, oregano, and Italian seasoning.  I put the first four ingredients in the food processor, and then saute them.  The mix the rest into it with added water.  Here is a picture of the 7/11 and the ground tomatoes I use.
Thanks, again for your help.
Norma

Offline JConk007

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 3761
  • Location: New Jersey
  • Lovin my Oven!
    • Flirting with Fire
Re: Pete-zza Need Help with Dough Formulation
« Reply #49 on: May 22, 2009, 01:57:23 PM »
Norma,
Great choice of sauce ingredients, I love those Stanislaus products.
Are you able to get Grande cheese? and what type of flour are you using or did you mention that already somewher.
Tha pies sure are looking good!
John
I Love to Flirt with Fire! www.flirtingwithfirepizza.com