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Offline DoouBall

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hydration levels confusion
« on: April 23, 2009, 12:47:55 AM »
Does a higher hydration level necessarily mean that the pizza will be moist inside?  Handling issues aside, how does one go about figuring out the ideal hydration level to achieve the most moist end product?

Some of my experiments with superhigh hydration levels resulted in very crispy dried out crusts because it took so much longer to finish cooking.  However my results are not consistent, so I wanted to check the experiences of others. Currently I am using the King Arthur all-purpose flour in an unmodified home oven at 550.  Is there an ideal hydration level for this?

is it better to use a high hydration level and no oil( such as 65 to 70% hydration) or lower hydration level and a little oil( such as 61% hydration and 2% oil)

Thanks.


Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: hydration levels confusion
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2009, 01:15:56 AM »

Some of my experiments with superhigh hydration levels resulted in very crispy dried out crusts because it took so much longer to finish cooking.  However my results are not consistent, so I wanted to check the experiences of others.


What criteria are you using to determine when the pie is finished cooking? Visual cues can be misleading. In general, high hydration + high temp + short baking time = softer crust

Offline DoouBall

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Re: hydration levels confusion
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2009, 02:20:12 AM »
I'm going by the browning of the crust and the melting of the cheese to determine when it is done. I also generally use a timer and it takes between 5 1/2 and seven minutes at the highest temperature I can get. I usually pull out the pie by seven minutes at the latest even if it is slightly under browned, to make sure that it isn't fully dry.  Is there a better way?

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: hydration levels confusion
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2009, 02:34:11 AM »
Is there a better way?

I cook a different style of pie than you, but, as you have found, the appearance of the surface of the crust can be independent of the texture of the crust as a whole. Using the melting of the cheese as a cue may also be problematic unless you are using the same kind and amount of cheese each time. The solution is not simple. The browning of the crust can be influenced by the ingredients such as sugar, milk, oil, etc.

My approach has always been to use the highest hydration I can while still being able to easily handle the dough. Others here can help you come up with a dough formula that may give you the crust browning you seek in a shorter cooking time so it doesn't dry out.

Offline s00da

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Re: hydration levels confusion
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2009, 05:37:56 AM »
I'm going by the browning of the crust and the melting of the cheese to determine when it is done. I also generally use a timer and it takes between 5 1/2 and seven minutes at the highest temperature I can get. I usually pull out the pie by seven minutes at the latest even if it is slightly under browned, to make sure that it isn't fully dry.  Is there a better way?

In low temp baking such as 550, higher hydration will not necessarily protect you pizza from being dry as much as oil would; so I would recommend using oil. This is from my own experience until I started baking at 850-900 degrees where things are very different.

One way I measure prober hydration is by dough handling. If the dough shows a lot of weakness against gravity and starts showing thin spots, I would decrease hydration in the next time. This practice actually made me drop my hydration from 65% to 62% and to tell you the truth, the resulting pizza with lower hydration tasted much better to my personal preference. Keep in mind that I'm referring to a 12 inch pizza; so if I were to go to 14 or 16 and 18, I would probably further decrease hydration to making handling easier. This is of course all relative to the flour being used and your skills in handling the dough.

Good luck


Offline DoouBall

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Re: hydration levels confusion
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2009, 01:10:41 PM »
Thank you very much for your responses.   I am still confused as to what to do.

Moisture issues aside, would you guys agree that having no oil in the dough creates a more pure wheaty taste in the crust? According to my book "the best bread ever," adding oil into the dough destroys the taste of bread.   However so many pizza recipes include oil, even recipes attempting Neapolitan pizza. I'm wondering if no oil for best flavor is just a purist perspective or if this is the truth?  Does that only apply at super high temperatures because the oil would make the crust burn?

I was really amazed with the taste of the pizza last time made with King Arthur all-purpose flour, no oil, 65% or higher hydration and camaldoli starter combined with the Pain l'Ancienne method of chilling the flour and water. It sat in the fridge for two days. However because of the high hydration, the dough was almost impossible to handle.  So I was thinking about reducing hydration to 62% and adding 2% oil to maintain that super moist inside I achieved last time.  That way I can hopefully have better handling of the dough. But I'm afraid that the taste will not be so perfect.  What should I do?  Suck it up and learn to handle super wet dough?  Or will the taste not be affected too much by adding oil?  I've always added extra-virgin oil in the past, maybe I should get some extra light oil?

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: hydration levels confusion
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2009, 01:11:58 PM »
Alex,

The rated absorption value (a laboratory measurement related to the capacity of a flour to absorb water) for the King Arthur all-purpose flour (KAAP) is around 60-61%. Using measures such as sifting the flour, using autolyse or similar rest periods, and using a whisk as part of the mixing process, I have been able to squeeze enough water into that flour to reach a hydration of around 65%. That value is a close to the "operational" absorption value for the KAAP (see http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4646.msg39204.html#msg39204) and is also comparable to what the old NYC masters used to make their NY style pizza doughs before all-purpose flour was replaced by bread flour and high-gluten flour. As a practical matter, I don't see much reason to get above 65% hydration for the KAAP, although I might try a percent or so higher to make a dough like JerryMac's as originally given at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5851.0.html and as I interpreted and modified his recipe at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6515.0.html.

I will also acknowledge that there are dough recipes out there that call for very high hydration values. Peter Reinhart and Jim Lahey and others are proponents of very high hydration doughs, with some examples being given at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,203.msg54497.html#msg54497 (Reply 19), http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7745.msg69521.html#msg69521 (Reply 31), http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8148.msg70104/topicseen.html#msg70104 (Reply 3), and http://hollosyt.googlepages.com/quickrusticciabattapizza. One member even mentioned that one of Jim Lahey's no-knead doughs has a hydration in excess of 100%. In my opinion, recipes such as the ones referenced above work much better in a very high temperature oven than in a standard home oven such as yours (and mine). I just don't think there is enough heat in a standard home oven to give the oomph that is needed to raise the very wet doughs to optimize the results (good oven spring, soft crust and crumb, and everything properly baked). I have also found that the leftover slices of such pizzas when baked in my home oven do not dry out enough on reheating. They invariably remain soft and soggy even after a long reheat time in my toaster oven. So, when baked in a standard home oven I think it is best to eat these types of pizzas right out of the oven with no leftovers. As I also mentioned in Reply 31 above, in addition to obvious handling issues, there are some limitations to high-hydration doughs in terms of the amounts and types of toppings that can be used and the sizes of pizzas that can be made with such doughs. These limitations do not exist with normal hydration levels.

There are also other issues that complicate the hydration of doughs. These include humidity, flour moisture (which diminishes from the time that the flour leaves the miller), flour age, storage conditions, and even variations in the type and quality of protein. Even when weighing the flour, it may be necessary to make adjustments to the flour and water in the mixer bowl to compensate for these factors. This is where getting to know the right "feel" of the dough is so important.

The presence of oil in the dough will also affect the rheology and plasticity of the dough. At low levels, it is not likely to have a great effect. But, at high levels, for example, above 7%, the oil can affect the overall "hydration" of the dough because of the wetness of the oil. Having made many doughs using high levels of oil, I found that I had to reduce the nominal hydration of the dough (due to the water) in inverse proportion to the amount of oil used. For example, when I used 7% oil, I used a hydration of around 56-57%.

Peter

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: hydration levels confusion
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2009, 02:03:59 PM »
Moisture issues aside, would you guys agree that having no oil in the dough creates a more pure wheaty taste in the crust? According to my book "the best bread ever," adding oil into the dough destroys the taste of bread.   However so many pizza recipes include oil, even recipes attempting Neapolitan pizza. I'm wondering if no oil for best flavor is just a purist perspective or if this is the truth?  Does that only apply at super high temperatures because the oil would make the crust burn?

I was really amazed with the taste of the pizza last time made with King Arthur all-purpose flour, no oil, 65% or higher hydration and camaldoli starter combined with the Pain l'Ancienne method of chilling the flour and water. It sat in the fridge for two days. However because of the high hydration, the dough was almost impossible to handle.  So I was thinking about reducing hydration to 62% and adding 2% oil to maintain that super moist inside I achieved last time.  That way I can hopefully have better handling of the dough. But I'm afraid that the taste will not be so perfect.  What should I do?  Suck it up and learn to handle super wet dough?  Or will the taste not be affected too much by adding oil?  I've always added extra-virgin oil in the past, maybe I should get some extra light oil?


Alex,

I think you will find differences of opinion on the matter of using or not using oil in the dough. I have done it both ways many times and I happen to like the pizzas both ways. I usually use oil (typically 1%) when I want to make a NY "street" style pizza and I leave it out when I want to make an "elite" NY style pizza. The crust without oil will be dryer than one with oil. Sometimes I adjust the hydration but sometimes I don't, given the small amount of oil involved. As you will see form ilpizzaiolo's post at Reply 3 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1053.msg9384/topicseen.html#msg9384, oil was added to NY style doughs to get more crust color when gas fired deck ovens were introduced. The oil also helped with the extensibility of the doughs made from the stronger flours.

As you will note from this post, http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7489.msg64438/topicseen.html#msg64438 (Reply 7), oil in or on a dough serves multiple purposes. As you increase the amount of oil, its effects on the dough, including the gluten development, change and the changes will be reflected in the finished crust. For a discussion on this aspect, see Reply 75 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6480.msg64759/topicseen.html#msg64759. The discussion in that post is with respect to a deep-dish dough, which can contain very high quantities of oil, but the principles are the same.

Peter

Offline DoouBall

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Re: hydration levels confusion
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2009, 02:29:48 PM »
Interesting.   I am mixing with a food processor and using an autolyze( last time was five minutes waiting and it seemed enough). Therefore I can probably achieve a 65% hydration if I choose. Since you say that is the operational absorption rate for the flour I am using, am I correct in assuming that this would be the best choice for getting the best taste? I'm willing to deal with the difficulties of wet dough management if I get a better end product. I'm not sure if I completely understand the absorption rate concept since many  Italian breads are made with hydration rate of 80% or more - clearly higher than the absorption rate.

when I was in Washington, I spoke to the guy making pizzas at the 2 Amy's restaurant,  one of the better-known Neapolitan style pizza places there. He told me that when he first started making pizzas at home, he believed that a high hydration rate was ideal to compensate for the long baking time. After experimenting, he realized that a lower hydration rate is better because the pizza can cook faster. So what confuses me is, why did I get such a great result was such a high hydration value even at my low temperatures?

Since I'm using parchment paper to load the pizza onto the stone, I don't have the problem of sticking to the peel.

On a separate note, do you think I would get a better product by going straight from the peel to the stone and skipping the parchment paper? If I would get better browning on the bottom, then I will do this.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: hydration levels confusion
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2009, 03:11:11 PM »
Alex,

As you will see from the article at http://www.bsimagazine.com/feature_stories_print.asp?ArticleID=37104, which I have reproduced below in significant part to preserve it, the "operational absorption" of a flour is defined as follows: Operational absorption also called "baking absorption" means the water-to-flour ratio that yields dough with the optimum handling (machinability), proofing and baking (loaf volume), and finished product (appearance, eating quality) characteristics necessary to give the desired baked food (bread). I believe that if you use 65% hydration, that should be a workable value. Whether it is the "best" value from a taste standpoint, I have no idea. I would make a few pizzas at different hydration values centered around 65% to try to answer that question.

What you learned from the fellow at 2 Amy's is what Marco (pizzanapoletana) told us long ago about the hydration value to use to bake Neapolitan-style pizzas in a standard home oven, together with the suggestion to add some oil to the dough (00 dough). Without knowing a lot more about your dough formulation that produced such good results in your case, together with the dough management and baking aspects, it is hard to say why your results were so good.

With respect to the use or non-use of parchment paper, I have learned with experience when it is a good idea to use parchment paper. Specifically, when the hydration of the dough gets above 65%, I know that the risk of the dough sticking to the peel, or to a pizza screen, increases quite rapidly as the dough's hydration exceeds 65%. I can usually tell by the feel of the dough whether it is likely to stick to my peel, so I make sure that everything (sauce, cheese, toppings) are in mis en plas shape if I decide to use the peel. If I conclude that the likelihood of the dough sticking to my peel is too high to risk losing the dough and pizza altogether, I use the parchment paper approach. I have not detected any loss of crust coloration or any other ill effects from using the parchment paper.

Here is the aformentioned article:

Absorption: what influences it

(BSImagazine.com, 15 July 2002)
by Bakingbusiness Staff

Different doughs absorb water at different rates. Why?

The proper water-to-flour ratio is important in commercial bread production. But the definition of "proper" varies according to the kind of dough being made. Absorption is much lower for a bagel dough, for example, than for a white pan bread dough. The method used to measure absorption also differs with product variety: Farinograph absorption is generally 2% to 4% lower than operational absorption.

Operational absorption also called "baking absorption" means the water-to-flour ratio that yields dough with the optimum handling (machinability), proofing and baking (loaf volume), and finished product (appearance, eating quality) characteristics necessary to give the desired baked food (bread).

MEASURING ABSORPTION
The contribution of various flour components to absorption is studied most often by using the Brabender Farinograph, which records mechanical resistance during kneading of a simple mixture of flour and water.

Farinograph absorption is the water-to-flour ratio that results in a recorder trace that, at its maximum, is centered on the 500 Brabender Units line. This is generally lower than baking absorption the water-to-flour ratio, determined by an experienced mixer operator, that gives optimum dough handling and final product qualities.

Four flour components absorb water: protein, native starch, damaged starch and pentosans. The absorption numbers in the accompanying table ("Influence of flour components on absorption") represent the relative water uptake by the various components and are not an attempt to allow precise calculation of baking absorption for a given flour based upon analytical data. Using analytical data, typical for a hard red spring wheat flour and shown in column three of the table, an absorption of 68.4 is calculated (total of column four). This absorption is reasonable for such a flour.

PROTEIN INFLUENCE
Both soluble and insoluble (gluten) proteins absorb water. We might expect that absorption by the insoluble gluten proteins would have more effect on dough rheology than that of the soluble proteins, but the specific evidence for such a conclusion is somewhat indirect. At one time or another, every major cereal chemistry research laboratory has studied the relationship between protein content and absorption. And there is quite good agreement that a 1% increase in protein will increase absorption by about 1.3%.

STARCH INFLUENCE
Native starch granules are relatively impermeable to water. This may be due in part to the lipid and protein found on the surface of the granules, probably derived from the cell wall of the amyloplasts present in the ripening wheat berry. Native starch is the largest single contributor to absorption due to its preponderance in flour. During baking, when these granules swell and gelatinize, the contents become readily hydratable and are probably the main water-binding species in baked bread.

Most damaged starch is formed during milling, although amylase action in sprouted grain can also cause starch damage. During the process of reducing chunks of endosperm (from the break rolls) to flour (on the reduction rolls), the particles are subjected to extreme pressure, producing cracks and fissures in some starch granules. These represent spots where water can readily penetrate the interior of the granule. More pressure at the reduction rolls is needed to break up hard wheat endosperm than soft wheat endosperm, hence hard wheat flours typically have a higher damaged starch content (6% to 12%) than soft wheat flours (2% to 4%).

PENTOSAN INFLUENCE
Studies on the water-absorbing capabilities of pentosans give rather varied results. Many different approaches have been used. The reported results range from no absorption by water-soluble pentosans, to 15% absorption by the whole pentosan group (both soluble and insoluble pentosans). The majority of these reports are in the range of 5% to 10% absorption, so a median value of 7 g water absorbed per gram of flour pentosans was chosen for inclusion in the table here.

ENZYME INFLUENCE
Two enzymes influence dough absorption amylase and pentosanase. Damaged starch granules are susceptible to amylase action, in contrast to intact starch granules. Digestion of damaged starch by amylase decreases its water-holding capability, releasing more water into the dough matrix and increasing pan flow. Hydrolysis of pentosans by pentosanase, also called xylanase, decreases water-binding capacity, making the dough softer. Significant enzymatic activity requires some period of time. To make best use of supplemental enzymes, they should be added as early as possible in the process (for example, to the sponge) and given time to make their contribution.


Peter



Offline PizzaHog

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Re: hydration levels confusion
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2009, 12:22:03 PM »
Quote
andling issues aside, how does one go about figuring out the ideal hydration level to achieve the most moist end product?
Quote
he believed that a high hydration rate was ideal to compensate for the long baking time. After experimenting, he realized that a lower hydration rate is better because the pizza can cook faster. So what confuses me is, why did I get such a great result was such a high hydration value even at my low temperatures?
Hey Doou
This has been my experience in experimentation over about a 10% hydration range (no oil or sweeteners) and seems to mirrors yours.  All the posts here are right on so here is my humble experience summary in case this helps.
Moist interiors have resulted at every hydration level (not every time, but eventually) as in your case, but I found that other factors vary quite a bit, especially at the extremes, such as: 
My 6-7 min high hydration pies browned nicely, were moist, good oven spring, but too chewy and lacked spring back.  The 3 min low hydration pies are also moist (maybe more so), not as good oven spring, good spring back, excellent bottom char,texture, and chew, but less top browning. 
Quote
I'm going by the browning of the crust and the melting of the cheese to determine when it is done.
For me, the pie is done when the interior is at the desired moistness, which I only find by trial and error.  Then I have to assess the other factors, adjust, and try, try again.
I realize there are a myriad of other variables as always, and your mileage may vary, but for my taste the shorter the bake time the better the overall combination of results so far in my quest to approach the experience of a high temp pie at low temp, albeit still a compromise for sure. 
We all just gotta find that sweet spot...
Hog
 





Offline DoouBall

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Re: hydration levels confusion
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2009, 01:47:39 PM »
In retrospect, I think the best pie of the last batch was the very first one, which cooked in only 5 1/2 minutes. So I do think that my results mirror your own in that all factors aside, the shorter cook time will win. There is also a Post on the Internet, in which someone tested three breads with hydration's of 65 to 75%.  Apparently the lowest hydration bread took only 25 minutes to cook while the highest took 45.  Here is the link http://samartha.net/SD/tests/Hydr01/index.html That would be another point in favor of lowering the hydration in home ovens for pizza since the faster cook time will probably mean that the crust and the toppings will cook at the same time and the crust will be moist while the cheese is still creamy.

I think another reason for my success in the previous session had to do with the fact that I used to pizza stones 4 inches apart and cooking only on the bottom stone.  The top stone actually reached 570 and I think this helped immensely for cooking the top of the pizza which resulted in the shorter cook time. However both stones cooled down quite a bit after the first pizza, and the second pizza took much longer around 7 1/2 minutes.  It was also not as browned.  I will experiment with turning on the broiler and keeping the oven door open so that I can quickly reheat the top stone.  By the way, this method has worked better for me than actually using the second stone right under the broiler and putting the pizza on top of the second stone to finish it off.

Offline PizzaHog

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Re: hydration levels confusion
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2009, 02:38:53 PM »
Same with me, 4" between bottom stone and top quarry tiles.  In my oven the bottom stone constantly ends up about 50 degrees hotter than the top.  So I doubled up some alum foil then wrapped it around the rack wires directly under the bottom stone.  Now both stones hit the same temp in dry run tests.  My aim and hope is more heat on the top relative to the bottom and a more even bake.  I hated to give up that 50 degrees but without a real WFO with higher top than bottom temps this may be the best I can pull off.  Although you have me thinking now about testing some broiler involved pre-heat to try and actually get the top stone hotter.  I love this forum but am not looking forward to my gas bill for this month...

Offline DoouBall

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Re: hydration levels confusion
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2009, 08:29:47 PM »
My broiler is actually more powerful(4000 versus 3200 W) than my bottom element.   By the time the top stone hit 570, the bottom stone was at 530. I used the broiler only for the last 5-10 minutes of preheating to create that situation. I have six racks in my oven.  The stones are on racks three and five counting from the top.  In other words there is one empty rack on the bottom.  This way the bottom stone is close enough to the bottom element and the top stone is further from the broiler, but close enough considering that the broiler is stronger.   I figure that keeping the stones further away from the thermostat allows the thermostat to cool down faster and for the heat to kick in sooner. I will experiment to see if there is a better setup.  I also keep convection on during the actual cooking because that is the only element that will stay on even when the maximum temperature has been reached.

Offline PizzaHog

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Re: hydration levels confusion
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2009, 10:04:15 AM »
Your excellent oven set up got me experimenting last night, but unfortunately my gas oven & broiler will not cooperate so far.  Once the oven hits some predefined near max temp the broiler auto shuts down and seems to not be that powerful when it is on.  I'm thinking with more tinkering I might be able to get the top hotter than the bottom using a diff pre-heat regimen for the first pie, but then maintaining the same heat distribution is the question.  Maybe cracking the oven door or repeating the pre-heat might work.  As usual, experiments will continue.
In the meantime, I will be baking up another batch of the winner of the last hydration experiment to confirm the results today and am keeping my fingers crossed...

Offline DoouBall

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Re: hydration levels confusion
« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2009, 04:21:19 PM »
Last night I concluded my 62% hydration 2% oil experiment. As I expected, even the small amount of extra virgin olive oil slightly masked the wheaty taste of the crust. I made three pizzas. Two of them were nice and moist in the middle and one was slightly dry because I pulled it out later than the others. So it seems that time in the oven is the final deciding factor as to how moist the inside is.  If I wait until the edges are very browned, the inside will be dry. So I guess at these lower temperatures I may have to sacrifice some edge browning in favor of a moist inside. It was much easier to handle last night's dough than the 65% hydration, but it did not rise as much in my oven on the edge.  It seems that I either did not let it rise enough or I did not have enough yeast in my formulation. The flavor of the starter was also quite mild so for the next experiment I decided to increase the amount of starter to 20%( from 10%). I will also slightly reduce the salt to 2.5% and return the hydration to 65%. Finally I will remove the oil again to make sure that my initial assumption was correct.

I was able to get my top stone to 600 by preheating the oven to 550 for 45 minutes and then turning on the broiler.  Every time the broiler switched off, I would crack the door open to the broiler position. As soon as the broiler switched back on I would close the door.  After about 5-10 minutes of this, it was at 600. finally, despite the extra oil in the dough, I actually had less browning because my edge did not rise very high. Therefore it was further away from the top stone and had a harder time developing a char. So my conclusion is, with the current setup of two stones 4 inches apart, the higher I can get my edge to rise, the more charring it will have because of proximity to the top stone.


Offline PizzaHog

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Re: hydration levels confusion
« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2009, 05:17:15 PM »
Quote
So I guess at these lower temperatures I may have to sacrifice some edge browning in favor of a moist inside.
This is exactly what I am experiencing and trying to improve as well.  So far every pie I have baked at every hydration with great top browning has suffered too much in some other way, usually not moist or chewy as leather, or both.  The best overall so far has been the lower hydration and shorter bake time though. 
Quote
It was much easier to handle last night's dough than the 65% hydration, but it did not rise as much in my oven on the edge.
Again, same here although I may have stumbled upon something that improved this (I am also experimenting with the lowest hydration yet tried) .  The last pie I made last night was delayed quite a bit longer than normal with guests and all.  This dough ball was out of the fridge for well over 4 hours, and had also risen in the container way more than normal.  But it baked up with the best oven spring of the night.  Not really sure what happened, but was pleasantly surprised and will try this again with the low hydration dough.  In fact, now that I think about it and look at some photos I took, each pie rose more in the oven than the previous one.  I attached pic's of the first and last pie to show the diff.  The browning was also better on the last but that was due to an additional 15 seconds in the oven.  All this just goes to show how every little change can make a big diff.   

edit:  I just thought about what you had said re the more risen dough getting closer to the top stone and browning better and I bet that happened to me as well. 


« Last Edit: April 27, 2009, 05:56:31 PM by PizzaHog »

Offline JConk007

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Re: hydration levels confusion
« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2009, 06:10:36 PM »
Hey Guys ,
I agree on both points
This weekend I fired the WFO to 800 degressand
#1) the very high hydration ( I tried the rienhart version) came out nice and dry, so I think its the oven
#2) there is no oil in this dough and after cooking indoors all winter with the various doughs and oils
I agree this dough just tasted great. A few Tasters said the could just eat the dough!
John
I Love to Flirt with Fire! www.flirtingwithfirepizza.com

Offline DoouBall

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Re: hydration levels confusion
« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2009, 03:09:10 PM »
JConk:  Did you like the results are using the Reinhart formulation or do you prefer the lower hydration's? Did you try that recipe both at home and in the wood fired oven, and if so what are your results ?

PizzaHog: Your pizzas look great! The last picture shows some serious charring on one side. What are your current bakers percentages and what sort of flour do you use?

Thanks.

Offline JConk007

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Re: hydration levels confusion
« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2009, 03:38:36 PM »
I loved the reinhart after 4 hr room rise this is the important part I think Must be room temp to form and cook properly. I prefer the high hydration at these temps. But I have found that AP flour room temp rise can work as well.
J
I Love to Flirt with Fire! www.flirtingwithfirepizza.com