Author Topic: NJ Boardwalk Pizza  (Read 150627 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #480 on: October 02, 2010, 11:07:37 PM »
This week my oldest daughter told me that she was going to Wildwood and was taking my granddaughter and great-granddaughter along.  I said how can you do that to me.  :-D  I meant I sure wanted to be able to go to Wildwood again and be able to eat Mackís pizza and see the ocean.  It seems I had to work today and there was nothing I could do about it, so for me, there was no going to Wildwood.  :'(  At least my daughter and granddaughter took some pictures and brought back some Mackís pizza. 

These are a few pictures of Wildwood taken today and Mackís pizza.  My granddaughter was kind enough to take two videos of the piemen making pizza.  I will upload them on YouTube and post the videos tomorrow. 

I told my daughter not to get me any par-baked pizza again, because the last time the pizza sure was terrible.  What interested me about this pizza that they brought home was the bubbles in the crust.  I wonder why there are some big bubbles.

At least this pizza isnít going to go under the boardwalk.  I will make good use of it.    ;D

Norma
« Last Edit: October 03, 2010, 08:35:16 AM by norma427 »
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Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #481 on: October 02, 2010, 11:09:06 PM »
end of pictures for today

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #482 on: October 03, 2010, 08:44:13 AM »
These are the pictures of Mackís pizza and the videos of the piemen.  I had three slices of Mackís pizza last evening and it was delicious in my opinion.  I had asked my daughter and granddaughter how the Mackís pizza tasted when the ate it fresh at Mackís yesterday.  They both said it was really good and have a definite crunch when they ate the pizza fresh.  They said when they were at Mackís in the afternoon that Mackís was busy.  When they were ready to leave they said the line waiting to get into Mackís was way out the door and people were waiting in line on the boardwalk to get into Mackís. There was a car show on the whole boardwalk in Wildwood yesterday. When I reheated the slices of Mackís pizza the cheese almost tasted like the Acme brand of Longhorn style white cheddar cheese. 

I sure wish I could have gone to Wildwood yesterday.  When looking at the bottom of the crust and Mackís whole pizza, it still amazes me how different this pizza tastes than other pizzas I have eaten. 

I want to try another attempt at Mackís pizza in a few weeks.  Peter do you have any ideas of what I could change to get my pizzas to look more like Mackís?  I know I donít exactly have the cheese part figured out, but this crust is also different, then the ones I tried in this thread.  I did contact Jim again, about two weeks ago by email about the Acme brand of longhorn style mild white cheddar, but I havenít gotten any answer from him.  Do you get any more clues from these videos and pictures?  The dough sitting out on the bench looks so flat and also so much different than doughs I have made in this thread.  It still wonders me about how quickly the piemen open the dough balls and how flexible the dough is when they twirl the dough and throw it into the air. When I looked at the 18" pie, it sure looked big to me.

I am going to give Steve a slice on Tuesday because he never tasted Mackís pizza before, except when I purchased the par-baked Mackís pizza.  That par-baked pizza sure was different then the one that was brought home for me last evening. 

Videos

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xG7yhOCkXY" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xG7yhOCkXY</a>


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhALcslqH7Y" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhALcslqH7Y</a>


Pictures below

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #483 on: October 03, 2010, 08:45:20 AM »
more pictures

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #484 on: October 03, 2010, 08:46:32 AM »
more pictures

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #485 on: October 03, 2010, 08:47:24 AM »
end of pictures

Norma
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Offline StrayBullet

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #486 on: October 03, 2010, 11:36:01 AM »
Some great looking stuff Norma!!!  Takes me back a bit, the guys that put in my roll-bar have a shop near Great Adventure but that was a few years ago :)

And just to note, the phrases great-grand-daughter and "having to work" just don't seem to mix in my head ;)

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #487 on: October 03, 2010, 12:29:21 PM »
Some great looking stuff Norma!!!  Takes me back a bit, the guys that put in my roll-bar have a shop near Great Adventure but that was a few years ago :)

And just to note, the phrases great-grand-daughter and "having to work" just don't seem to mix in my head ;)

Mark,

Thanks for saying Mackís pizza is some great looking stuff.  :)  Mackís pizza is good, in my opinion. I just wish I could get my dough to look like Mackís and have it be so flexible. It is so much different than other pies I have tasted and I have been to NY many different times and tried many different pizzas.  I have also been to Great Adventure in the past and that is also a nice place.  Hope you also enjoyed Great Adventure Amusement Park.  :)

The terms great-granddaughter and having to work are because I am older and also because my furry friend had to have an expensive operation and many tests before he could have the final operation.  That is why I got a part-time job, to pay for his operation and also to keep busy. I just started this part-time job the other week, so I sure couldnít take off already.  I might be older, but I still have some life in me.  At least I think I do.  :-D  If you look at my signature, that is what I said when I became a member of this forum and I still think the same way.

Norma
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Offline scott r

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #488 on: October 03, 2010, 01:15:41 PM »
norma, the last picture shows a bubble that looks similar to the types of bubbles I see when I do high oil content NY style doughs.   Have you tried any high fat/oil recipes.   Im thinking 3-4% might be a good starting point.   good luck!

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #489 on: October 03, 2010, 01:26:23 PM »
I want to try another attempt at Mackís pizza in a few weeks.  Peter do you have any ideas of what I could change to get my pizzas to look more like Mackís?  I know I donít exactly have the cheese part figured out, but this crust is also different, then the ones I tried in this thread.  I did contact Jim again, about two weeks ago by email about the Acme brand of longhorn style mild white cheddar, but I havenít gotten any answer from him.  Do you get any more clues from these videos and pictures?  The dough sitting out on the bench looks so flat and also so much different than doughs I have made in this thread.  It still wonders me about how quickly the piemen open the dough balls and how flexible the dough is when they twirl the dough and throw it into the air. When I looked at the 18" pie, it sure looked big to me.

Norma,

I did not see anything in the new videos to suggest possible changes to the Mack's clone dough formulations we have been experimenting with. It seems to me that Mack's pizzas take on new and different looks all of the time. I think that the dough is made the same way each time but that they may be using the dough balls at many different stages of fermentation and that this may be the cause for all of the different looks and crust textures of the Manco pizzas. I would imagine that Mack's has a pretty good idea as to dough ball volumes but it would seem that inventory control is an ongoing issue when many of your patrons are tourists and factors like weather can have a big effect on traffic and on dough ball inventory and management, especially in a boardwalk environment where I would think that it would be hard to accurately predict from day to day how much dough to make.

Can you tell me which of your Mack dough clone formulations has come closest to a real Mack's pizza? Also, can you tell me what differences you detected in the latest Mack's pizza and the best of your Mack clones?

Peter


Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #490 on: October 03, 2010, 03:11:27 PM »
norma, the last picture shows a bubble that looks similar to the types of bubbles I see when I do high oil content NY style doughs.   Have you tried any high fat/oil recipes.   Im thinking 3-4% might be a good starting point.   good luck!

scott r,

Thanks for looking at Mack's pizza.  :) I did try up to 6% oil in the formula.  I am wondering if I should try another kind of oil, other than olive oil.  Would that make any difference in the flavor of the crust or how the crust bakes? 

Thanks for the good luck.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #491 on: October 03, 2010, 03:30:09 PM »
Norma,

I did not see anything in the new videos to suggest possible changes to the Mack's clone dough formulations we have been experimenting with. It seems to me that Mack's pizzas take on new and different looks all of the time. I think that the dough is made the same way each time but that they may be using the dough balls at many different stages of fermentation and that this may be the cause for all of the different looks and crust textures of the Manco pizzas. I would imagine that Mack's has a pretty good idea as to dough ball volumes but it would seem that inventory control is an ongoing issue when many of your patrons are tourists and factors like weather can have a big effect on traffic and on dough ball inventory and management, especially in a boardwalk environment where I would think that it would be hard to accurately predict from day to day how much dough to make.

Can you tell me which of your Mack dough clone formulations has come closest to a real Mack's pizza? Also, can you tell me what differences you detected in the latest Mack's pizza and the best of your Mack clones?

Peter


Peter,

The closest looking Mackís clone I made in terms of look of the crust was June 6, 2010 at Reply 341 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg100438.html#msg100438   That Mackís clone was made in my home oven.

My closest attempt at market in terms of overall taste of the Mackís pizza was at Reply 399 on July 13, 2010.  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg103522.html#msg103522   

I can understand that Mackís pizzas do look different in different pictures, but the crust doesnít taste different in the ones I have tried.  It is always about the same.  That is something I donít understand about this dough and trying to find out what kind of formula to use, that a pizza could have so many looks, but the crust still tastes the same.  Most pizzas I have tried to make at home will have different looking doughs if I ferment them longer or change different variables.  If you look just at Mackís doughs that are sitting on the bench they donít seem to ever change in my opinion on how they look.  I donít know if that why the crusts stay the same tasting or not.  I couldnít ever imagine trying to have enough dough and then letting them sit at room temperature (over the difference in ambient temperatures of spring, summer, and now fall) and all the doughs still look the same, even if the dough was fermented longer.  Maybe I just donít understand all of this.  If I just take a small piece of crust that is cold and taste it, the crust does taste saltier than any pizza that I have made.  There is also a kind of sweetness in the crust, but I can really explain that.  Do you think I should go up in the amount of salt?  If I eat a cold piece of just crust, it is really good tasting in my opinion.  If I would just base the Mackís pizza on terms of the crust, without the sauce and cheese there is a really salty tasted left in my mouth after having eaten a piece of the crust, but when eaten hot, I donít really notice that.

I guess I am just stumped in knowing what to try.   :-\

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #492 on: October 03, 2010, 03:44:30 PM »
Peter,

I just had one other question to ask you if you don't mind answering the question.  What happened to your signature? I saw you had posted on that different times in the past. 

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #493 on: October 03, 2010, 06:32:55 PM »
Norma,

I went back to the beginning of this thread and looked at photos of all of the pizzas. It seems to me that maybe it is worth moving the Mack's clone dough more in the direction of a cracker style crust--possibly something approaching a DeLorenzo crust but with less of a cracker characteristic.

An example of what I have in mind is using a hydration of 53% and oil at 5%. That may sound a bit extreme but it would still give us an "effective" hydration of 58%, which should be a workable value (any worker should be able to handle it) from the standpoint of being able to open up the dough balls, especially if the dough balls are given enough temper time before using to improve the extensibility of the skins, hopefully with little or no bubbling in the skins. You can increase the salt if you wish, maybe to about 2.2%, although I think that a fairer test in trying to establish a salt baker's percent is to assess the degree of saltiness using a just-baked pizza rather than a reheated slice. I would leave the sugar at whatever value you have been using, otherwise you run the risk of the bottom crust prematurely browning or even burning when baked in a deck oven. I would select a value for the IDY that will allow using the dough after one day of cold fermentation but still be usable after two or three days. I am thinking of about 0.30% IDY, or maybe a bit more where you are with the weather turning cooler. A three-day range might allow for the pizzas to have different looks yet taste pretty much the same. You might try using a different oil, such as vegetable (soybean) oil, to see if that is closer to what Mack's may be using. Using a different type of oil shouldn't have much of an effect beyond flavor.

In terms of making the pizza, I would try to keep the rim small in size and I would place the sauce and cheese close to the outer edge of the pizza.

It may turn out that the above changes will not get us closer to the target. However, I think we should learn something that might help us in future efforts. Ruling out things that do not work is still a useful exercise.

With respect to the Signature question you raised, I don't think I have ever used a Signature. I have used what is called "Personal Text" in my profile.

Peter

Offline Tscarborough

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #494 on: October 03, 2010, 08:14:01 PM »
I read that (this?) thread about Macks and made a crude clone.  It was good, no telling if it was true to them or not.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=11391.0;attach=25069;image

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #495 on: October 03, 2010, 10:45:18 PM »
Peter,

I think it is time to try a change.  Although the crusts were good in the formulas I did try, it still isnít exactly like a Mackís crust.  I just didnít know what to try next.  There is a softness in the rim of Mackís pizza, but also a crunch when you eat the crust.  I donít know any other way of explaining how Mackís crust is.  Maybe ERASMO could explain it better since he has eaten Mackís pizza more times over the summer than I did. 

I will take your advise and change the hydration and oil hydration.  I will also increase the salt in the formula, because after eating the crust cold, it is really salty. I think I am also going to try regular table salt in the dough.  I know some pizza businesses that do just use regular salt in their dough. I think Mackís would go the cheapest route, but I am not sure is table salt would be cheaper than the Mortonsí Kosher salt I have been using and I also am not sure if that will make a difference in the taste of the crust.  I can understand to access the crust more fairly, it would have to be eaten just baked. 

I also think ruling things out would be good.  I will try another attempt in the next few weeks.

I didnít know what you call a ďpersonal textĒ was.  I had just thought that your personal text was your signature, but I see now that there is a difference.  I enjoy reading what members have as their signature.  I guess I was a little confused like always.   :-D
 
Thanks for your help,

Norma
« Last Edit: October 04, 2010, 08:33:28 AM by norma427 »
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Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #496 on: October 03, 2010, 10:51:17 PM »
I read that (this?) thread about Macks and made a crude clone.  It was good, no telling if it was true to them or not.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=11391.0;attach=25069;image


Tscarborough,

Your pizza looks quite tasty.  :)  Did you use one of the formulas from this thread?  I haven't tried Peter's formulas, but the pizzas I have made on this thread did turn out well in my opinion.  Since only Mack's knows their formula, it is hard to clone a pizza, when you don't know what formula they are using.  We do know the flour is Kyrol and the sauce, but the cheese is still elusive.

Thanks for posting the picture of your pizza.

Norma

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #497 on: October 04, 2010, 10:40:20 AM »
I will also increase the salt in the formula, because after eating the crust cold, it is really salty. I think I am also going to try regular table salt in the dough.

Norma,

If you were previously using Morton's Kosher salt but used regular salt/sea salt in the dough calculating tool, you would have been on the low side. You might want to take that into account when you arrive at the percent of Kosher salt you want to use.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #498 on: October 04, 2010, 11:16:42 AM »
Norma,

If you were previously using Morton's Kosher salt but used regular salt/sea salt in the dough calculating tool, you would have been on the low side. You might want to take that into account when you arrive at the percent of Kosher salt you want to use.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for telling me to use a higher percent of regular table salt when I figure out the formulation for the Mack's pizza.  I didn't know using regular table salt would then make the salt on the low side.  I had been using the Morton's Kosher salt in all the other formulas. 

Norma
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Offline Jose L. Piedra

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #499 on: October 04, 2010, 10:51:20 PM »
Wow, the Mack's pie is unbelieveably thin, considering that it's a plain pie not weighted down by a lot of toppings. Are they making it at a TF of .09 or less, or does their dough just lack oven spring ?

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