Author Topic: NJ Boardwalk Pizza  (Read 245164 times)

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Offline PizzaEater101

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #525 on: November 10, 2010, 12:52:23 PM »
Thanks for the links Norma.  I just read the info on the song "Under The Boardwalk" and the one on the Boardwalk as well.  It was very interesting.

I checked your post on the Boardwalk and your photos.  If I ever make it backeast I will make sure I go to the Boardwalk and try some Mack's.  I should put up some photos of our very own Santa Monica Pier.  Not a boardwalk but kinda reminds me of it.

Thanks for the link on the bacon grease thing. I will read it.  I have not yet but gonna now.  I'm curious about how people feel about bacon grease in their dough and how they turned out.

Man I wanna make another Boardwalk pie but this time I get the ketchup bottle because it would sure help.



Offline PizzaEater101

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #526 on: November 10, 2010, 12:54:31 PM »
Oh here is a link to a song and video called "I Love LA" by Randy Newman. He's well known for the song "Short People" but this song made everyone forget about "Short People" and think of "I Love LA".  This is the best we can do in So Cal in terms of these kind of boardwalk places.  Venice Beach is shown here.  Believe me VB is a mess.  Bums and scummy people and weird people all over the place but I go there sometimes but not often.  This song was released I believe 1984.  It appears that members of Toto are in this video too.

« Last Edit: November 10, 2010, 01:13:15 PM by PizzaEater101 »

Offline PizzaEater101

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #527 on: November 10, 2010, 03:00:55 PM »
It's me again with another posting!  I made another pie.  I made a pseudo Mack's again. 

This time I did use a squeeze bottle and the whole thing was better than last time.  I didn't do the sauce layout as well as some of the others here but it was pretty good.  For cheese I used about 10% Muenster, 45% Fontina, and 45% white mild cheddar.  It turned out good.  As usual a 12 inch pizza pie.  I will post photos soon.

Offline PizzaEater101

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #528 on: November 10, 2010, 03:30:00 PM »
Here are some pics.  Sadly when I wanted to take pics I found out the real digi cam's batteries were drained and didn't have any replacements so I took with cell camera.  Quality of photos not so great, maybe blurry but you get an idea of how my pseudo Mack's pizza turns out.

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #529 on: November 10, 2010, 03:39:08 PM »
PizzaEater101

If you go back on Reply 71 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg96338.html#msg96338   you can see that on the link for Slice, on Shout-Outs, they have Mackís and Mack and Mancos listed in the 25 vote-getters in his spreadsheets from Adam Kuban.

Good to hear you ketcup squeeze bottle worked well.  I had used a cake pastry bag in my first attempts at the Mackís pizza.  It was Peter that gave me the idea to use a squeeze bottle at Reply 101 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg96820.html#msg96820

Since I am older, I grew up in the days of no TV, until I was about 5 years old and then all it was  about Howdy Doody to me.  That is why my childhood was so different than children today. The first movie I saw that made me think, was ďA Summer PlaceĒ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Summer_Place_(film)#Plot  When I went to Wildwood, when I was a teen the teens the were more different than from my small town, where I grew up.  Most of them were from Philly.  That is why most peers of mine thought ďUnder the BoardwalkĒ, was questionable in the lyrics at that time.  I liked your ďI Love LAĒ song.  I never heard that before.  I have never been to California. 

Good to hear you made another pseudo Mack's pizza again.  The photos of you pseudo Mackís pizza look good to me.  :)  Thanks for posting them and going along with us on this thread.   ;D Which formula did you use for your pseudo Mackís pizza?

Norma
« Last Edit: November 10, 2010, 03:48:19 PM by norma427 »

Offline PizzaEater101

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #530 on: November 10, 2010, 03:50:28 PM »
Norma, California is okay, you didn't miss much by not coming here.  You really need to go to Florida if you have not yet.  Now that's the place to go.  Very nice.
 
The formula I got was from this thread and it might have been yours or maybe Pete's.  I think it was yours.  Well I used the percentages and used the extended calculator to figure it out for a 12 inch pizza x 2.

Flour 100%
Water 55%
IDY .35%
Salt (Kosher) 2%
Oil (I used the bacon grease) 6%
Sugar 2%
Total 165.35%

Norma thanks for the compliment on my pizza.  It did taste good!  Now a Leahmann NY Pizza I have to make. 
« Last Edit: November 10, 2010, 03:54:01 PM by PizzaEater101 »

Offline PizzaEater101

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #531 on: November 10, 2010, 03:52:31 PM »
Norma, I just checked out that link and saw Mack on it.  Pretty impressive to be on the top 25 list. 

Hey wait, I see Norma's Homemade Pizza made it to the top 25 too!

Offline PizzaEater101

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #532 on: November 10, 2010, 04:01:00 PM »
Do any of you toss and spin the dough in the air?  I did this time and it worked out pretty good.  I'm getting better at it nowadays.  This Mack dough went well through the air and spun around quit well.  I don't know if it's the low hydration or something that caused a consistency in the dough that allowed me to spin well or I did a good job just on my own.  When I do an NY Pizza that will be the test if I can do it again.

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #533 on: November 10, 2010, 04:21:43 PM »
PizzaEater101,

Thank for posting what formula you used.  LOL, my pizzas wonít ever made the top 25 list. I did toss and spin the dough on this thread in a video.  I am not good at tossing the dough like the Piemen at Mackís are.  It amazes me how well they can toss the dough.  Good to hear you were able to ďtoss & spin the dough.Ē  A lower hydration dough is easier to toss in my opinion.  Keep up the good work in continuing your experiments.  Best of luck in the Lehmann dough pizza.  :)

Norma.


Offline trentonpie77

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #534 on: December 19, 2010, 11:52:56 AM »
got around to trying the acme brand longhorn mild white cheddar as has been suggested here. to me, it's not the answer. the taste is ok, but the texture when using this cheese by itself is off. somehow it's just too soft and thin after cooking.. it also lacks that classic mack and manco's 'bite.' to be clear -- my points of reference are mack and manco's ocean city, and macks on oregon ave. (not macks of wildwood.) my best results come from a mix of white cheddar and part skim mozz.       

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #535 on: December 19, 2010, 01:01:35 PM »
got around to trying the acme brand longhorn mild white cheddar as has been suggested here. to me, it's not the answer. the taste is ok, but the texture when using this cheese by itself is off. somehow it's just too soft and thin after cooking.. it also lacks that classic mack and manco's 'bite.' to be clear -- my points of reference are mack and manco's ocean city, and macks on oregon ave. (not macks of wildwood.) my best results come from a mix of white cheddar and part skim mozz.       

trentonpie77,

Thanks for posting you did try the Acme brand of mild longhorn white cheddar and what you thought of the results in the taste.  I haven't tried a mix of any white cheddars and part-skim mozzarellas.  I don't know if we will ever find out what brand of white cheddar Mack's or Mack and Manco"s uses.  Your are right there is some kind of bite to the taste of the pie from the cheese.

Norma

Offline fireman117

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #536 on: December 22, 2010, 05:01:56 PM »
Hi All,

Having a great time with this thread, and can't wait to see the outcome. This pizza looks great.
In response to post 142 about the cheddar.

You see Formost coop signs in front of many dairy farms here in WI.  I believe they are a rather large outfit. Not sure how easy it is to get product from them.

Wisconsin  IS the dairy state with many other excellent cheese businesses.
You might want to check these guys out:

http://www.wegastardairy.com/

They make an excellent whole milk Mozzarella (which is available direct only), and, the other cheeses that are available through the local grocers like Pick n Save or Woodmanns Market are really good, Plus, their prices are reasonable.

They are super nice on the phone and will ship you whatever you order same day. I've had excellent experiences with them and I'll bet they can supply you with the cheddar you're looking for.  As I said their Mozzarella is excellent!

Give them a try!

Eric


Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #537 on: December 22, 2010, 06:13:08 PM »
fireman117,

Glad to hear your are having a great time in this thread.   :)

I do buy cheese from Foremost Farms from my distributor, but my distributor doesnít carry any Foremost Farms cheese that tastes like Mackís cheese.  I also tried the State Brand of cheddar with no success.  The flavors of both brands of cheese are good, but not like Mackís.

Thanks for the link and posting about how to buy cheese from them.

I donít know, but think only after we know exactly what kind of cheese Mackís uses, then we might be able to purchase some to try on a Mackís clone.

Norma

Offline ERASMO

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #538 on: December 22, 2010, 06:17:02 PM »
I will be back in the dumpster this summer!!!!!!

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #539 on: December 22, 2010, 06:32:31 PM »
I will be back in the dumpster this summer!!!!!!

ERASMO,

Great to hear what you are going to be doing this coming summer.  ;D  If I have time, I might join you!  :-D

Norma

Offline ERASMO

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #540 on: December 22, 2010, 06:36:54 PM »
Norma

Will you be down the shore this summer?

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #541 on: December 22, 2010, 06:40:41 PM »
Norma

Will you be down the shore this summer?


ERASMO,

I am not sure at this time, but do want to go this coming summer.   8)

Norma


Offline fireman117

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza Reply 309
« Reply #542 on: December 28, 2010, 03:24:55 PM »
Hi Norma and All,

Iíve been watching this thread with great interest but I'm only up to reply 318 so far.

I didn't surprise me too much about the cheddar cheese. As kids we would make those lousy Chef Boy-R-Dee pizza kits and if we wanted any thing other than the parmesan that came with it, weíd have to scrounge around the fridge for whatever cheese might be there. And guess what every refrigerator in the state of Wisconsin has in it. CHEDDAR! So we'd put that on and things would really start to improve.  Now, with that in mind, I also think it's an excellent idea for pizza. Lotís of flavor.

I could do a little research for you without too much trouble and see who has what.  WI has lots of medium sized dairies and they're real good at making cheese.

We might be able to get you what you need for testing without too much trouble. For example I called over to Star Dairy a few minutes ago and talked to one of the cheese guys there and he said they don't regularly make "white" cheddar, but if you gave him a call, the next time he made curds, he'd make you a ring or two up. Can they ship to Pennsylvania, no problem. I have whole milk Mozzarella shipped to me here in Milwaukee, and it's been flawless. If you want some help please let me know. I'd also like to see this Mack's pizza thing work out. It looks great.

Here is there address and phone number: If the order takers donít know about the white cheddar, ask to talk to one of the cheese makers.
http://www.wegastardairy.com/
(920) 867-2870

I have company coming over Thursday and want to give this thing a try. As I said I haven't read this whole thread, but here's where I'm at. I made up the dough last night and stored it in the fridge until Thursday.  Finished dough temp was 80 degrees, then right into the fridge in two round covered containers. I'm using Dakota Maid Bread flour and SAF Instant yeast.

I used the dough calculator for two 14 inch pies and I've stuck with this recipe for a while and have very good results overall except for the stretching thing. Sometimes the dough stretches right out, sometimes not. I let it temper on the counter for a couple of hours and try not to disturb it until I'm ready to make the pies.  I canít toss! Is this close enough to make it work? (I didnít see Peterís #301 reply on the crust improvements until today).

Total weight 930 g with a 58% hydration.
Flour 577 g
H20 335g
IDY 2.31 g/.61 t
NaCl 10 g
Oil (Olive) 5.77 g

 Norma, I'm a little lost on the sauce. Except it seems to be a thinned out paste based sauce with oregano and black pepper. Is that right? Here's what I have on hand for tomato product. I have cans of Cento diced or Puree, Pastine San Marzano with Basil, Red Gold Petite diced. Hunt's or Red Gold Paste or an emergency can of Dei Fratelli Pizza Sauce.

If you could give me an idea of what the sauce is like that would be great.

Thank you,
Eric

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #543 on: December 28, 2010, 09:59:05 PM »
Eric,

I know this is a long thread.  I have access to many kinds of milk white cheddar cheese in my area and I have tried a fair amount for Mackís pies and so far none of them are the exact cheese Mackís uses. I even called distributors near where Mackí and Mac and Mancos are, and so far havenít had any luck in finding out who distributes Mackís cheese.

Thanks you for contacting a dairy about getting some mild white cheddar to try.  I appreciate your help on this thread.  I wish I knew the exact kind of milk white cheddar Mackís uses, but I donít know.

I donít know anything about Dakota Maid Bread flour and donít know how that will turn out in a Mackís clone pizza.  I have been using Kyrol flour for my attempts for a Mackís clone.  That is the kind of flour Mackís uses. 

This was the last formula I tried at my attempt to make a Mackís pizza. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg103522.html#msg103522

As for the sauce Mackís uses it is Gangi.  It is like a thick paste, and in my opinion it is not sweet.  I am not familiar with the kinds of pastes you have, but I think most pastes would work out okay if you thinned them down some.  I think Mackís uses oregano and black pepper in their sauce.  I would tend to think Mackís sauce would taste something like Walmartís brand of tomato paste from times I tasted the Walmart brand.

I wish I could be of more help.  If I can help you in any other way, let me know. 

Norma

Offline fireman117

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #544 on: December 29, 2010, 10:42:11 AM »
Hi Norma,
Thanks for the info and I'll take a look at your last attempt.  By the way all the others I saw looked real good.
A couple of questions. Is the Gangi product available anywhere?
I couldnít find out much about them except apparently they were associated with the Dei Fratelli family in CA way long time ago, and now are owned by Teasdale??, who can pinto beans in the same location in Atwater CA. Note the address is the same.

http://www.manta.com/c/mmcnr3q/sun-garden-gangi-canning-company-llc

http://www.teasdale.net/contact_teasdale.php

But, I couldn't even find a distributor for the product or even any pictures of the can. Could you post a picture?

When you thin out the paste what is the consistency like? About ketchup thickness? And is it cooked or just mixed?
I have Hunt's and Red Gold on hand, but I could whip over to Wal-Mart and pick up a couple of cans of paste.

As for the Dakota Maid, I'm no expert, but Iíve had very good luck with their products and their prices are reasonable, $12.50/25lbs. bread flour.
Here the link showing some of their products. I have a request in with them for the specs on their flours.

https://www.ndmill.com/bakery.cfm
.
Any way Iím going to give this a try on Thursday, but Iím going to use the whole milk Mozzarella, because thatís what I have on hand. Next time Iíll try it with your last attempt and the Star Dairy cheddar.  Iíll post some pix unless I have a disaster!

Thank you for the info, and just a side note. A year ago this month I discovered the site and it has been enlightening to say the least. I went from not being able to make a pizza that was edible to something in the very acceptable range, with consistent results.

Thank you all!

Eric



Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #545 on: December 29, 2010, 12:29:03 PM »
Eric,

I am not sure about where Gangi sauce can be purchased other than Bova Foods.  http://www.bovafoods.com/products.html  njbruce posted at Reply 436  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg105488.html#msg105488 that Gangi sauce can be purchased at http://supremedairyfarms.com/   Peter posted in the next Reply 437 the link to the catalog http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg105490.html#msg105490

ERASMO also reported that Mack and Mancos uses Gangi Sauce at Reply 434 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg105400.html#msg105400

I also saw the Gangi sauce when I went to Wildwood.

In this Reply 341 from me, I did use the Gangi sauce at home to make a pizza.  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg98557.html#msg98557 and an attempt I made at market at a Mackís clone, using the Gangi sauce at Reply 149 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg97425.html#msg97425 In Reply 95 there is a picture of a can of Gangi sauce, that Steve (Ev) went to Bova Foods to purchase for me at Reply 95 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg96781.html#msg96781

The Gangi sauce is dark red and needs to be thinned down.  It is kinda bitter to my taste buds, but when baked on a pizza, the taste changes.  I would tend to think that Walmart paste would be able to be about same from other tests I did with the Walmart paste.  The sauce is applied fairly thick.

Best of luck in trying a Mackís clone.  :)  Mozzarella should turn out great on your pie.  Post pictures if you have success.

I only found this forum about a year and a half ago and I also found the forum very enlightening.  My pizza making skills went from non-existent to be able to make many different kinds of pies, but I am still learning.  Glad to hear this forum has helped you too!  :)

Norma
« Last Edit: December 29, 2010, 12:37:10 PM by norma427 »

Offline BOARDWALKER

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #546 on: December 30, 2010, 10:34:26 AM »
A poster on another pizza site stated that he worked for a pizzeria that made a Grotto's clone in Delaware. They used Conte pizza sauce with oregano,red pepper, and white colby cheese.  I did some research and found out that Conte also makes Furmano's brand.
This past year i asked for (and received) cardboard cups of raw sauce from Mack's and Grotto.  Both sauces were watery, bitter, and had a strong oregano kick.   I purchased Furmano's original pizza sauce and duplicated the taste of the raw sauces by watering it down and adding a lot of oregano and a pinch of red pepper.  I also had a slightly better result with Red Pack tomato puree treated the same way.  However, when cooked it lost the familiar tang of Mack's pizza.

This summer, I went to Bova Foods and bought three 107 oz. cans of Gangi heavy sauce with basil.  The taste and consistency is identical to any brand of tomato paste.  But when watered down, hit with a heavy hand of oregano, and a pinch of black pepper - it emerges from the oven with that distinct sweet and tangy flavor.  Amazing stuff.   I have had great success using the sauce frozen in smaller conainers - no loss of flavor.

I go to Mack and Manco Too, in Somers Point, NJ, once a week and the sauce is dead on.  A crazy thing about M&M2 is that they open and hand stretch their doughs two at a time!

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #547 on: December 30, 2010, 10:52:54 AM »
A poster on another pizza site stated that he worked for a pizzeria that made a Grotto's clone in Delaware. They used Conte pizza sauce with oregano,red pepper, and white colby cheese.  I did some research and found out that Conte also makes Furmano's brand.
This past year i asked for (and received) cardboard cups of raw sauce from Mack's and Grotto.  Both sauces were watery, bitter, and had a strong oregano kick.   I purchased Furmano's original pizza sauce and duplicated the taste of the raw sauces by watering it down and adding a lot of oregano and a pinch of red pepper.  I also had a slightly better result with Red Pack tomato puree treated the same way.  However, when cooked it lost the familiar tang of Mack's pizza.

This summer, I went to Bova Foods and bought three 107 oz. cans of Gangi heavy sauce with basil.  The taste and consistency is identical to any brand of tomato paste.  But when watered down, hit with a heavy hand of oregano, and a pinch of black pepper - it emerges from the oven with that distinct sweet and tangy flavor.  Amazing stuff.   I have had great success using the sauce frozen in smaller conainers - no loss of flavor.

I go to Mack and Manco Too, in Somers Point, NJ, once a week and the sauce is dead on.  A crazy thing about M&M2 is that they open and hand stretch their doughs two at a time!

BOARDWALKER,

Welcome to the forum and thanks for your help in this thread.  :) I am familiar with the Furmanoís brand.  Your are quite the detective in obtaining raw sauce from Mackís and Grottoís.  8)  I agree that the sauce Mackís uses does have a bitter taste before baked on their pizzas.  I am glad you had a chance to buy some Gangi Sauce and compare it to other tomato pastes.  This will help other people that canít get the Gangi sauce be able to prepare a sauce like the Mackís.  I had thought while trying to compare the Gangi to Walmart paste, I had thought it tasted about the same, but since I was only one person doing the comparison, I didnít know if I was right.  I was also intrigued how the tomato sauce changes after the sauce is baked into pizza.

I never saw any of the piemen opening two skins at once and I would really like to see that.  That is crazy.  I wonder how they got their opening skills. 

Do you think when you make your pizzas that white colby cheese does give your pizzas a taste like Mackís pies?  We still are trying to find a cheese like Mackís or M&Mís.  There is a certain zing to their cheese, whatever it is.

If you have time and want to, I think everyone would like to see pictures of your pies.

Thanks again for helping to be able to make a pie like this.  ;D

Norma

Offline ERASMO

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #548 on: December 30, 2010, 12:23:24 PM »
I have seen them open two doughs at a time at the Wildwood Macks.  Would that mean a high oil content in the dough recipe?

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #549 on: December 30, 2010, 03:26:49 PM »
I have seen them open two doughs at a time at the Wildwood Macks.  Would that mean a high oil content in the dough recipe?

ERASMO,

It is hard to say. Extensibility is a function of so many different things, including the type of flour, the hydration level, the way the dough is made, whether oil is used in the dough and how much, and how the dough is fermented and for how long. This makes it difficult to pinpoint any single factor. However, from my experimentation at home, I thought that hydration was an important factor and also getting a robust dough. Since I played around with low hydration values, I found it difficult using only my KitchenAid stand mixer, even with modest amounts of oil, to get a particularly robust dough that held up to some pretty rough handling and could be tossed and spun with relative ease. As I reported elsewhere, I ended up using a combination of my 14-cup Cuisinart food processor and my KitchenAid stand mixer with a C-hook to make the dough. I also apportioned the water and oil such that the combination was around 60%.

I think the answer may be in achieving the proper relative amounts of water and oil in the dough. If we were to discover that there is no oil in the dough, then I would point the finger at hydration, particularly low hydration, even with the Kyrol high-gluten flour. Having a good mixer would also be a big factor in getting a quality dough that stands up well to handling. Maybe using a Bosch mixer in a home setting would come close to emulating a commercial stand mixer such as used at Mack's.

Peter


 

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