Author Topic: Re: Matt's Latest Pizzas  (Read 12061 times)

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Offline Matthew

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Re: Matt's Latest Pizzas
« on: September 19, 2009, 06:23:45 PM »
Inspired by Jeff V's photos from Spacca Napoli in Chicago, here are my versions.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2009, 06:27:48 AM by Matthew »


Online widespreadpizza

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Re: Matt's Latest Pizzas
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2009, 09:05:24 PM »
Matthew,  those look great.  whats the specs on those?  I am especially curious about your bulk/ball times.  thanks -marc
« Last Edit: September 20, 2009, 10:48:43 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline Matthew

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Re: Matt's Latest Pizzas
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2009, 07:02:24 AM »
Matthew,  those look great.  whats the specs on those?  I am especially curious about your bulk/ball times.  thanks -marc

Marc,
The specs are as follows:

100% Caputo 00 Pizzeria Flour
58% Water (Including starter which is 46% water)
5% Ischia Starter (total dough weight)
3% Salt

Dough Ball weight 275 grams.

Kneaded in DLX with roller & scraper & then finished with a hand knead.  I don't do any autolyse as I don't find it beneficial when doing a long bulk rise.  One step that I do feel is necessary though is to add the flour gradually in small amounts throughout the kneading process. 

Bulk Rise 24 hours @ 70 degrees, shape panelli & then another 4-5 hours @ 70 degrees prior to baking.

Baked for approx 60 seconds (950-975 degrees hearth temp & 1100 dome temp)

This is for me the perfect formulation & yields excellent results.  I have made this dough 2-3 days in advance because of my busy schedule & placed the dough balls in the fridge taking them out about 5 hours to baking & the end result is the exact same.

Matt
« Last Edit: September 20, 2009, 10:49:18 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline Barry

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Re: Matt's Latest Pizzas
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2009, 08:00:50 AM »
Hi Mathew,

Your latest pizzas look fantastic. Could you pelase reply to the following 2 questions"

1. How long do you knead for in your DLX, and what do you look for when you "finish" the dough by hand ?

2. How much (by what percentage) has your bulk dough risen by after 24 hours ?

Thank you.

Kind regards.

Barry in Cape Town
« Last Edit: September 20, 2009, 10:49:53 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline Matthew

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Re: Matt's Latest Pizzas
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2009, 08:22:10 AM »
Hi Mathew,

Your latest pizzas look fantastic. Could you pelase reply to the following 2 questions"

1. How long do you knead for in your DLX, and what do you look for when you "finish" the dough by hand ?

2. How much (by what percentage) has your bulk dough risen by after 24 hours ?

Thank you.

Kind regards.

Barry in Cape Town

Hi Barry,
Gladly; the first question is kind of tough to answer because it's all about look & feel.  I can tell you though that I usually knead for about 20 minutes in the DLX
prior to hand kneading for a couple of minutes.  You're looking for nice tiny little bubbles that form on the skin once you've finished your hand knead & formed into a large ball.  With regards to the second question,  I would say that it has at least tripled in volume during my 24 hour bulk rise.  The dough is extremely bubbly & pillow soft after this period.  I will take some photos next time to provide a visual.

Matthew
« Last Edit: September 20, 2009, 10:51:34 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Matt's Latest Pizzas
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2009, 10:40:10 AM »
This is for me the perfect formulation & yields excellent results. 

Matt,

You have come a long way in a short time. Congratulations on your great success.

You are also in good company with your methods. As you will note from Marco's post at Reply 61 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1298.msg12548/topicseen.html#msg12548, Da Michele and Antica Costa both use over 20 hours of room temperature fermentation. Based on other posts that Marco entered on the forum at about the time of the above post, both Da Michele and Antica Costa were using natural starters (Crisceto).

Peter
« Last Edit: September 20, 2009, 10:50:55 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline Matthew

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Re: Matt's Latest Pizzas
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2009, 07:34:51 AM »
Matt,

You have come a long way in a short time. Congratulations on your great success.

You are also in good company with your methods. As you will note from Marco's post at Reply 61 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1298.msg12548/topicseen.html#msg12548, Da Michele and Antica Costa both use over 20 hours of room temperature fermentation. Based on other posts that Marco entered on the forum at about the time of the above post, both Da Michele and Antica Costa were using natural starters (Crisceto).

Peter

Peter,
Thanks very much, this forum has been instrumental in helping me create a product that I have been extremely happy with.  Peter, you are an extremely valuable resource for us all & your time & dedication to helping the people on this forum is unparalleled.    Bill/SFNM has also been a huge inspiration & set the benchmark; creating some of the most beautiful pizzas I have seen.  Marco's & Bill's posts, on working with starters, were to me extremely valuable threads that I read over & over again.  I adapted Bills culture preparation method & have been using it ever since without fail.  Thanks again!

Matthew

Offline Matthew

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Re: Matt's Latest Pizzas
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2009, 07:47:14 AM »
Is it only me or does pizza taste better when eaten this way? ;D

Offline Barry

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Re: Matt's Latest Pizzas
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2009, 07:56:04 AM »
Hello again Matthew,

Quote
I would say that it has at least tripled in volume during my 24 hour bulk rise.  The dough is extremely bubbly & pillow soft after this period.  I will take some photos next time to provide a visual.

Thanks for the answers to my questions. Wow - triple the volume !  I have not tried my doughs with a starter at 5% (percent of the TOTAL dough weight). I quess this is the main reason for the huge increase in volume. I use 2-3% usually. Has your bulk dough shown any signs of "collapsing" ?

When you "dump" your bulk dough onto a table to divide into balls, do you keep it in the "same plane" and then cut and shape, or is it random ?

Thanks again for a great thread.

Kind regards.

Barry


Offline Matthew

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Re: Matt's Latest Pizzas
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2009, 08:12:21 AM »
Hello again Matthew,

Thanks for the answers to my questions. Wow - triple the volume !  I have not tried my doughs with a starter at 5% (percent of the TOTAL dough weight). I quess this is the main reason for the huge increase in volume. I use 2-3% usually. Has your bulk dough shown any signs of "collapsing" ?

When you "dump" your bulk dough onto a table to divide into balls, do you keep it in the "same plane" and then cut and shape, or is it random ?

Thanks again for a great thread.

Kind regards.

Barry


Hi Barry,
I have never had an issue with the dough collapsing, on the contrary it's pretty bubbly on top & full of nice little air pockets.  I bulk proof my dough in a 6 or 8 quart round Cambro container (depending on the batch size).  When I dump the dough out of the container, I use a dough scraper to round it off a bit by tucking the sides into the bottom before I portion out the dough.  I then shape the panelli & place them in a lightly floured proofing box.

Matthew


Offline thezaman

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Re: Matt's Latest Pizzas
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2009, 12:35:03 PM »
 matt, awesome pizza ! what size are they? where did the ischia starter come from ? is there a tread on your development of that beautiful dough?

Offline Matthew

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Re: Matt's Latest Pizzas
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2009, 02:46:55 PM »
matt, awesome pizza ! what size are they? where did the ischia starter come from ? is there a tread on your development of that beautiful dough?

Thank you, they are about 12" & the Ischia is from sourdo.com.  My regimen & formula is exactly as described in Reply #2 of this thread.  If there is something specific that you would like me to answer please let me know.

Matthew

Offline s00da

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Re: Matt's Latest Pizzas
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2009, 12:32:35 PM »
I love the leoparding on those pies!

Matt, where do you ferment your dough? Is it a Thermokool-like unit?

Saad

Offline Matthew

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Re: Matt's Latest Pizzas
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2009, 03:58:12 PM »
I love the leoparding on those pies!

Matt, where do you ferment your dough? Is it a Thermokool-like unit?

Saad

Hi Saad,
Thanks for the kind words.  For now I just keep it in the kitchen because the containers don't fit in my homemade proofing box.  I'm in the process of modifying my wine fridge & will eventually use that.

Matt

Offline s00da

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Re: Matt's Latest Pizzas
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2009, 04:20:07 PM »
Hi Saad,
Thanks for the kind words.  For now I just keep it in the kitchen because the containers don't fit in my homemade proofing box.  I'm in the process of modifying my wine fridge & will eventually use that.

Matt

Matt, the reason I asked is because of what I'm experiencing with the Ischia currently. You can read about it in length here http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9319.0.html but to make a long story short is that I tried fermenting at 68 F and 70 F and at both temperatures I think I stumbled upon the gluten strengthening effect caused by the acetic acid production that causes my dough to be too elastic and resists shaping up as a good friendly dough during proofing. Chewy and leathery. I found that fermenting at 73.8 F was very different producing perfect extensibility and a great final product.

When I saw in your post that you are fermenting at 70 F, I wondered how controlled is the temperature. You will be surprised how unstable the temperature can be in the kitchen if you look at this http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9285.0.html  ;D

Anyways, I wish that you can let us know how your fermentation procedure changes when you're done with your proofing box project. Good luck in that  :D

Saad

Offline Matthew

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Re: Matt's Latest Pizzas
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2009, 04:29:42 PM »
Matt, the reason I asked is because of what I'm experiencing with the Ischia currently. You can read about it in length here http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9319.0.html but to make a long story short is that I tried fermenting at 68 F and 70 F and at both temperatures I think I stumbled upon the gluten strengthening effect caused by the acetic acid production that causes my dough to be too elastic and resists shaping up as a good friendly dough during proofing. Chewy and leathery. I found that fermenting at 73.8 F was very different producing perfect extensibility and a great final product.

When I saw in your post that you are fermenting at 70 F, I wondered how controlled is the temperature. You will be surprised how unstable the temperature can be in the kitchen if you look at this http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9285.0.html  ;D

Anyways, I wish that you can let us know how your fermentation procedure changes when you're done with your proofing box project. Good luck in that  :D

Saad

Saad,

To be quite honest, the fluctuation/inconsistency in keeping fermenting the dough at room temperature hasn't been an issue at all for me.  My dough is extremely easy to shape & has excellent windowpaning.  Are you proofing your starter prior to using it?

Matt

Offline s00da

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Re: Matt's Latest Pizzas
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2009, 05:06:59 PM »
Saad,

To be quite honest, the fluctuation/inconsistency in keeping fermenting the dough at room temperature hasn't been an issue at all for me.  My dough is extremely easy to shape & has excellent windowpaning.  Are you proofing your starter prior to using it?

Matt

Actually Matt, I currently have no problems getting my dough the way I want it with the Ischia. It is more like I'm being a bit too geeky trying to understand it more by fermenting at different temperatures and comparing results.

Saad

Offline Matthew

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Re: Matt's Latest Pizzas
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2009, 05:20:51 PM »
Actually Matt, I currently have no problems getting my dough the way I want it with the Ischia. It is more like I'm being a bit too geeky trying to understand it more by fermenting at different temperatures and comparing results.

Saad

Gotcha! 

Matt

Offline s00da

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Re: Matt's Latest Pizzas
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2009, 05:29:13 PM »
Keep those pies coming, I keep scrolling back and forth watching them  :o

Offline Matthew

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Re: Matt's Latest Pizzas
« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2009, 12:12:52 PM »
Saad,
I tried to modify my fridge cooler with no luck, so I figured that I would leave it alone before I ruin it.  Instead I disconnected the top Peltier & am running the bottom unit only which is intended to be used for red wine & runs warmer than the top one.  With that modification I can maintain between 66-68 degrees which is a good temperature for doing a 2 day fermentation.  Funny enough, I just discovered that with the door closed & the unit off I am able to maintain 70-72 degrees which should be optimal for a 24 hour fermentation.  The humidity is about 74% so I'm not sure what role if any that will play since I normally do my bulk fermentation in the kitchen which it at about 50% humidity in the summer time.
When I need warmer temperatures (for proofing my starters) I'll continue to use my trustee proofing box. ;D

Unfortunately the weather is not cooperating this weekend so I decided that I'm going to make a sourdough boule & some Sicilian raisin bread in my home oven.  I'll post some pictures tomorrow.

Matt