next »

[Matthew]

Hi All,
I have been using my starter regularly for almost a year now & have a pretty good idea on how it works/behaves in my home environment.  I typically use my starter once a week  & my basic regimen is to remove starter from fridge, feed & proof, use what I need,feed again, let sit for an hour, then refrigerate.  Would this process be different in a commercial application because of the frequency of use?

Matt

[andreguidon]

Hi Matt.. I have the same curiosity....

[pacoast]

In a commercial setting you're likely to be using your starter daily or even several times daily, depending on your dough regimen. So the starter will thrive & always be active or near active due to the frequency of feeding. Starters that are fed often lend themselves to very consistent results. And for Ischia at least, keeps all of the flavour complexity while losing a bit of the sourness seen with infrequent use.

You may need larger container(s) for the amount of starter you use. But otherwise it'd be the same. In other words the method changes little. Perhaps you'll mix larger quantities. The difference is in improved performance. In the busiest bakeries a starter may be used so often that it never gets refrigerated. Just fed, used, fed, used, fed..

.

[s00da]

How about something like this and forget about the hassle?  http://www.tmbbaking.com/fl80.html

[widespreadpizza]

wow that is serious! marc

[Matthew]

In a commercial setting you're likely to be using your starter daily or even several times daily, depending on your dough regimen. So the starter will thrive & always be active or near active due to the frequency of feeding. Starters that are fed often lend themselves to very consistent results. And for Ischia at least, keeps all of the flavor complexity while losing a bit of the sourness seen with infrequent use.

You may need larger container(s) for the amount of starter you use. But otherwise it'd be the same. In other words the method changes little. Perhaps you'll mix larger quantities. The difference is in improved performance. In the busiest bakeries a starter may be used so often that it never gets refrigerated. Just fed, used, fed, used, fed..

.

PA,
Thats's kind of what I figured.  I have kind of put my Camoldoli on the back burner for now as I heavily favor the Ischia both for flavor & strength.  After a week of being in the fridge I can bring it to full strength within 3 hours of proofing at 80 degrees.  If I used it on a daily basis would it still need to be refrigerated?  I would also guess that the proofing time would be drastically reduced.

When building up a starter, should it be done gradually or can it be done all at once?  Will the method that I chose impact the flavor & complexity?
My guess is that the safest way would be to do it gradually.  So for example, if my starting point was 2 cups of cold starter & my goal was to get it to 1 liter, I would continue my regular regimen on a daily basis without using & discarding any starter.  In other words;  feed, proof, change container, feed, let sit @ room temperature for 1 hour, refrigerate.  Keep repeating this until the desired quantity is reached.

Thoughts/Comments?

Matthew

[Pete-zza]

Matt,

I am sure that professionals have many methods and equipment and facilities that they use to develop and maintain starter cultures that they intend to use in their commercial operations. For example, you can see how bakerboy, a professional baker, discussed the method he used at Reply 2 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5352.msg45279/topicseen.html#msg45279.

Peter

[Matthew]

Peter, thanks alot for the link.  Seems like a simple & effective method.

Matt

[jeff v]

I seem to remember Reinhart say you can triple and sometimes quadruple a starters size at once, but shouldn't go much more than that at one time. I'll edit later if that is wrong.

Jeff

[pacoast]

If I used it on a daily basis would it still need to be refrigerated?

With daily use, you'd still need to refrigerate your starter overnight. Bakerboy's method seems ideal. Just don't try to increase your starter volume tenfold in one step. Doubling or tripling in one step should be safe. I know of at least one bakery that does a dozen batches of dough a day & doesn't refrigerate their starter. But that's an extreme example & they're still feeding it every few hours.

You'll get the best flavour from your Ischia when it's fed regularly e.g. daily use gives better results than weekly which in turn is much, much better than bi-weekly. And IMO although I'm sure not everyone will agree, minerals can bring out the best yeast flavour & complexity in your starter. This may be the reason that bakerboy is using a measure of whole wheat flour to his feeding regime. An alternate approach would be to use mineral water. In any event, I can taste the difference in blind tasting & think that it's worthwhile.

.