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[Kemosa]

I am searching for some help to get my crust lighter and crisper.  I currently use a variation of Pizza Raquel at about 64% hydration, All Trumps flour with typically 3 day cold rise.  I fire the oven at 550 and use a stone and a pizza screen.  I use about 15 oz dough ball for a 16" pie which is very thin (maybe too thin ??).  I never seem to achieve a light airy outside crust (no air pockets).  I'm thinking of using a poolish or maybe a starter ??  Any suggestions out there ?  Thanks !

[Bill/SFNM]

How long are you fermenting and proofing the dough? Temp? How are you shaping the crust. Rolling pin?

[Pete-zza]

Kemosa,

1) Are you now using a natural starter or preferment for your Raquel dough, or are you using only commercial yeast, or possibly a combination of both?

2) How specifically are you using your screen and pizza stone to bake the pizzas, and what size is your pizza stone and where is it placed in the oven?

3) What bake time have you been using?

I think it might also help if you post your entire dough recipe.

Peter

[Kemosa]

Bill & Pete- when finished with about an 8 minute mix, I place the dough in an air tight container directly into the fridge.  I usually do not proof the dough at room temperature for more than 1/2 hour out of the fridge.  No rolling pins, just hand stretch.  The recipe I use is Raquel minus the second rest period with no starter or preferment (IDY only).   The screen is 16" and the stone is 15" which I actually have two stones (heated at 550* for an hour), one bottom, one top in which I rotate the pies from top to bottom.  Thanks for your help.  Tom

[Pete-zza]

Tom,

To begin, I suggest that you let your dough temper at room temperature for more than 1/2 hour before shaping and stretching into a skin. When I made an early version of the Raquel dough formulation, I used the original Raquel recipe given at Reply 24 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1258.msg11359.html#msg11359. The instructions for that recipe say to bring the dough to room temperature. Did you use the same version of the Raquel recipe? Either way, unless you have a very hot or very cold kitchen, I would shoot for a temperature for the dough of around 65 degrees F before shaping and forming into a skin.

In general, I think that the Raquel dough formulation does best with a higher oven temperature than a standard home oven can deliver. However, I think you should still be able to make a decent Raquel pizza in a standard home oven. I personally made two versions of the Raquel recipe using my home oven--one using a natural preferment with a small amount of commercial yeast (IDY), and a second one using only commercial yeast (IDY). I also used some oil in the dough. I described my results for the preferment/IDY Raquel pizza at Reply 198 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1258.msg20961.html#msg20961. I described the results of the Raquel pizza using only IDY at Reply 212 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1258.msg23092.html#msg23092. As you will see from those two posts, I personally preferred the pizza using the combination of the natural preferment and the small amount of IDY. It is possible to use a poolish in lieu of a natural starter, but the basic Raquel dough formulation you used would have to be reformatted for that application.

When I made the two Raquel pizzas referenced above, I used a combination of screen and pizza stone. Once the pizza baked for a while on the screen (which is bigger than my stone, as in your case), I shifted it off of the screen onto the preheated pizza stone. You didn't specifically say whether you did something similar, but I did not place the screen with the pizza on it onto the stone. In my case, I also used the broiler element but it may well be that I could have just used the top oven heat for the same purpose, which is the standard method I now use for the most part when using high protein flours.

Peter

[Kemosa]

Pete
Once again you are spot on !   I did however take the proofing a step a bit further than your recommendations.  When I finished the mix, I formed the dough balls and let it set out at room temperature (about 68-70*) for about 2 hours covered with a wet towel.  I then placed them in a fridge overnight, took the dough balls out and let them sit out at room temperature for another 4 hours.

I lowered my baking temperature to 500* and the result was a very light, thin crust that had quite a few air cells in the outer crust.   It's by far the lightest crust I've ever made.  I think that I may still experiment with a preferment or perhaps even try a starter from sourdough.com.   I was wondering if you personally use a starter or preferment/poolish/biga for your dough ?

Again thank you for your help.

Tom

[Pete-zza]

I was wondering if you personally use a starter or preferment/poolish/biga for your dough ?

Tom,

In the past, I have experimented with just about all of the classic preferments using commercial yeast and some "natural" versions based on wild yeast. However, at the moment I am not using natural starters. I have found that it is difficult to maintain and use natural cultures at the same time as I make doughs with commercial yeasts. I would have to eat more pizzas or have more eaters.

Peter

[ThunderStik]

I would have to eat more pizzas or have more eaters.

Peter

I'll be your eater huckleberry!