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[cup-o-pizza]

I made my fourth round of Lehmann pies tonight with KABF + VWG and they turned out really great.  They were cooked between 500-525.  They started on a screen in the upper half of the oven, were moved to a stone on the bottom-most rack, and then moved back up to the upper rack with the broiler on for finishing.  I was very happy with the coloration and the flavor of the crust.  I only did a 24-hour cold fermentation, however, and I think the crust ended up being slightly less airy and more dense as a result.  No matter though -- they were devoured very quickly!

Here are some pics (the first one is a margherita; the second one...well, it's pretty obvious ):

[Pete-zza]

Matt,

I would say that you have the Lehmann NY style under control.

I assume that you prepared the pizzas using the methods discussed at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9474.msg82003.html#msg82003. If so, what you might try sometime is to let the dough temper at room temperature for another hour or so. As an experiment, you might even try to temper the dough just short of its starting to overferment and becoming quite extensible. Since you are using a screen, if you can shape and stretch the dough to the desired size, you should still be OK. Another possibility is to increase the amount of yeast and also extend the temper time.

Peter

[cup-o-pizza]

Pete-zza,

Yes, I prepared the dough using the same method as before, but, as I said in my post above, I only did a 24-hour cold fermentation period.

I have a few questions related to your suggestions:

1) Are you suggesting I either add more yeast or temper at room temperature (or both) with a 24-hour dough retardation, or my usual 48-hour period?
1) Would adding more yeast and tempering at room temperature yield a more airy crust? 
2) How much additional yeast would you suggest adding?

Thanks,
Matt

[Pete-zza]

Matt,

In answer to your enumerated questions:

1) It is always difficult to relate yeast quantity, fermentation time (and type), and temper times, so some experimentation is usually required. However, as between a 24-hour fermentation period and a 48-hour fermentation period, I would use more yeast for the 24-hour fermentation period than for the 48-hour fermentation period. For either fermentation period, you can treat the yeast quantity and temper time separately. Or you can use both an increased amount of yeast and a longer temper time. For your own education, you might try a series of experiments in which you change one variable at a time, for each of the 24-hour and 48-hour fermentation periods.

2) Much has been said and written about the fact that it does not take a lot of yeast to get a nice open and airy crust and crumb. That is generally true, but if you want a lot of fermentation action and a lot of dough expansion, using more yeast is a good way to achieve those objectives. However, sometimes that increased activity will translate into a crumb that is open and airy but also too soft, puffy and breadlike. I personally like a crumb that offers resistance to the tooth and has a nice stretch and snapback to it, much like an artisan bread. Given a choice, I think I would use a smaller amount of yeast and a longer temper period. However, you might prefer the results using both an increased amount of yeast and a longer temper period.

3) If you want to go the increased yeast route, I think I would try 0.60% IDY for the 24-hour fermentation period and 0.50% IDY for the 48-hour fermentation period. In either case, I think it is important to keep the finished dough temperature in the 75-80 degrees F range. Otherwise, you may find that you will have to adjust the fermentation window and/or the temper time.

If any of the above helps you get the results your are looking for, please let us know what worked.

Peter

[Grilling24x7]

Nice looking pizzas!  My 17 inch pizza screen came so hopefully I can make some gigantic Lehmann's too soon!

[cup-o-pizza]

Pete-zza,

Thanks for answering my questions!  I plan to do some experimenting by changing only one variable at a time and will take your suggestions into account.  I will definitely report back on my results.

Grilling24x7,

Thanks!  Let us know how that pizza screen works out for you.  Of course, we'll want to see pics.   

[Parttimepizzaiolo]

Hey Pete,

Is there an existing link that you know of on the forums that has a formulation for the Lehmann NY recipe for a 12 and/or 14 oz dough ball?  I made two 20 oz balls and it's just way too much dough for my 14" stone.  If not, how do you use the calculator?

Since I made a double batch (40 oz of dough total) I guess I could have just cut the dough into three 13 1/3 oz balls...

Thanks,

John

[Pete-zza]

John,

No doubt somewhere on the forum there is a Lehmann NY style dough formulation that will produce a 12 ounce or 14 ounce dough ball, but it is faster and easier to use the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html. Can you tell me how many dough balls you want and their weights and also what kind of flour, yeast and salt you plan to use? Also, is there a particular pizza size you have in mind?

Peter

[Essen1]

Here's one I used recently which yields a 375 gr dough ball (13.2oz). It's for four dough balls, though. Just scale it down if you want less.

897 g KABF/SBBF        100%
556 g Water @ 95°F    62%
16 g Kosher salt          1.75%
12 g organic sugar      1.33%
9 g   Oil                           1%
4.5g IDY                          .5%

Single ball: 374 gr.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8093.msg82385.html#msg82385

[Parttimepizzaiolo]

Can you tell me how many dough balls you want and their weights and also what kind of flour, yeast and salt you plan to use? Also, is there a particular pizza size you have in mind?

I use KA Bread Flour, Fleishmann's RapidRise yeast (in the 4oz jar), and Morton's Kosher salt.  I'd like a formulation for 3 dough balls and I'd like the pizza to fit perfectly on the 14" stone.  Weight-wise, what would be appropriate for a NY style crust for a 14" pie?  12 oz?  14 oz?

I have a digital scale, so ingredients by weight is fine/preferred.

Thanks in advance,

John

[Pete-zza]

John,

There is quite a range of thickness factors that apply to the NY style, from about 0.08-0.105, depending on whether you are after a NY "elite" style or a NY "street" style. In my home oven, I tend to prefer using the higher end of the above range. However, there are many members who prefer using the lower end of that range. A while back, I asked Tom Lehmann (via email) what amount of dough he would use to make a 14" NY style. He said 13.5 ounces. That translates to a thickness factor of 13.5/(3.14159 x 7 x 7) = 0.087698. If we 1) use that thickness factor in the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html to make three dough balls, 2) assume the ingredients you mentioned, 3) assume a hydration of 62% for your KABF, 0.40% for your Fleischmann's IDY, 1.75% for your Morton's Kosher salt, and 1% olive oil, and 4) assume a typical bowl residue compensation of 1.5%, we get the following:

King Arthur Bread Flour (100%): Water (62%): Fleischmann's RapidRise IDY (0.40%): Morton's Kosher Salt (1.75%): Olive Oil (1%): Total (165.15%): Single Ball:

705.66 g  |  24.89 oz | 1.56 lbs 437.51 g  |  15.43 oz | 0.96 lbs 2.82 g | 0.1 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.94 tsp | 0.31 tbsp 12.35 g | 0.44 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.57 tsp | 0.86 tbsp 7.06 g | 0.25 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.57 tsp | 0.52 tbsp 1165.4 g | 41.11 oz | 2.57 lbs | TF = 0.0890135 388.47 g | 13.7 oz | 0.86 lbs

Note: For three 14" dough balls; nominal thickness factor = 0.087698; bowl residue compensation = 1.5%

You can change the numbers in the expanded dough calculating tool any way you want to meet your particular requirements. Many members prefer to start with a particular dough ball weight instead of working with thickness factors. That is fine also. In that case, one would use the Dough Weight option of the expanded dough calculating tool along with all of the other inputs called for by the tool. For example, if you wanted to make three 16-ounce dough balls, the expanded dough calculating tool will produce the following:

King Arthur Bread Flour (100%): Water (62%): Fleischmann's RapidRise IDY (0.40%): Morton's Kosher Salt (1.75%): Olive Oil (1%): Total (165.15%): Single Ball:

836.34 g  |  29.5 oz | 1.84 lbs 518.53 g  |  18.29 oz | 1.14 lbs 3.35 g | 0.12 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.11 tsp | 0.37 tbsp 14.64 g | 0.52 oz | 0.03 lbs | 3.05 tsp | 1.02 tbsp 8.36 g | 0.3 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.86 tsp | 0.62 tbsp 1381.21 g | 48.72 oz | 3.05 lbs | TF = N/A 460.4 g | 16.24 oz | 1.01 lbs

Note: Dough ball weight = 16 ounces; for three dough balls; bowl residue compensation = 1.5%

Because of the larger dough ball weight in the last example, the crust will be a bit thicker. The thickness factor in that example will be TF = 16/(3.14159 x 7 x 7) = 0.103938.

Peter

[Parttimepizzaiolo]

Awesome Pete.  Thank you.

I will use your formulation on my next batch.

Cheers!

John

[torontonian]

Peter, I just noticed in your Lehmann recipe above, you specify Morton's Kosher as the salt. Previous recipes I've seen for the Lehmann have just said "salt" (at least the ones I've seen).

Is it generally assumed that all measurements are for Kosher salt? Reason I ask is that volume measurements for Kosher will be very different to table salt.

Thanks,
Josh

[Pete-zza]

Josh,

The "default" salt for the Lehmann NY style dough formulation is ordinary table salt. The reason is that the Lehmann formulation is a commercial one and, for such applications, most operators use the cheapest form of salt that they can get from their suppliers. In most cases, that is ordinary table salt. However, since our members like to have other salt choices, including Kosher salt, the various dough calculating tools were designed to allow users to specify whatever type of salt they'd like. Partimepizzaiolo (John) asked me to use Morton's Kosher salt to come up with a suitable dough formulation for him to try out. That was the reason for the Morton's Kosher salt that you saw in that formulation. I modified the table to customize it to John's choice of ingredients. If I didn't do that, all you would see in the table is "Salt".

The dough calculating tools do the necessary conversions of the different types of salts from weights (based on baker's percents) to volumes.

Peter

[torontonian]

That helps. Thank you Peter.