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[BrickStoneOven]

Can someone make this recipe so I can make around 3 pounds of dough. This recipe makes around 25 pounds and I am not making that much. I want to make the aged dough part today and let it ferment till Saturday and make the rest of the dough on Saturday as well.

Thanks

9 1⁄2 lbs.   water
1 lb.          aged dough
13 1⁄2 lbs.  General Mills All-Trumps flour
1 1⁄2 lbs.    General Mills Semolina #1
6Tbsp.        salt
1 Tbsp.       sugar
1Tbsp.       SAF instant yeast
5 oz.         canola oil

[Pete-zza]

BrickStoneOven,

Is the canola oil by liquid ounces or by weight?

Will the old dough (prefermented dough) be made using the exact same ingredients and in the same proportions as the rest of the dough? I assume that you want the old dough and the rest of the dough to weigh a total of three pounds. Is that correct?

Peter

[BrickStoneOven]

The oil I am assuming is liquid ounces. The "aged dough" is another dough that I am making with 00 Caputo that I will add to the other dough I am making. Yes I want the total weight of both doughs combined to be around 3LBS. I am going to make the dough from the Caputo and let it ferment till Saturday and add it to the other one I am making on Saturday and let that ferment overnight and make pizza Sunday. I just need to know what the recipe would be for around 3LBS of flour considering 3LBS would be enough for like 5 maybe 6 12" pizza's or more.

Thanks

David

[Pete-zza]

David,

In your last sentence, you said "3LBS of flour". Did you mean 3LBS of dough? Also, do you have the recipe for the Caputo old dough?

Peter

[Pete-zza]

BrickStoneOven,

While awaiting a response to my last question, I decided to run the numbers for your final dough (which excludes the old dough) on the assumption that you would end up with a total of three pounds of dough as you originally requested. Without any details for the Caputo old dough, I cannot come up with any breakdown for the old dough.

In order to address your request, I first converted the volume measurements for the salt, sugar, IDY and canola oil to weights, calculated the total weight of the dough batch, and then calculated all of the baker's percents. I calculated a dough batch weight (final dough) of 25.13 pounds, or 402.05 ounces. Using the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html, I ended up with the following dough formulation:

Flour (100%): Water (70.3704%): IDY (0.14757%): Salt (1.64063%): Canola Oil (2.66999%): Sugar (0.19531%): Semolina (11.1111%): Total (186.135%):

6123.6 g  |  216 oz | 13.5 lbs 4309.2 g  |  152 oz | 9.5 lbs 9.04 g | 0.32 oz | 0.02 lbs | 3 tsp | 1 tbsp 100.47 g | 3.54 oz | 0.22 lbs | 6 tbsp | 0.38 cups 163.5 g | 5.77 oz | 0.36 lbs | 12 tbsp | 0.75 cups 11.96 g | 0.42 oz | 0.03 lbs | 3 tsp | 1 tbsp 680.4 g | 24 oz | 1.5 lbs | 65.19 tbsp | 4.07 cups 11398.16 g | 402.05 oz | 25.13 lbs | TF = N/A

Adding one pound of the old dough to the above dough formulation provides a total dough weight (final dough and old dough) of 26.13 pounds, or 418.05 ounces. If you do the math, you will see that one pound of old dough is 3.83% of the total dough weight. If we scale down the total dough weight of 26.13 pounds to three pounds, or 48 ounces, 3.83% of 48 ounces comes to 1.84 ounces. A piece of old dough that weighs only 1.84 ounces is not practical. Although you haven't posted the dough formulation for the Caputo old dough, I believe you will find that some of the ingredients for the old dough are used in such small quantities that they will be virtually unmeasurable. You might want to revisit your plan.

If it will help you with your reassessment, the final dough (without the old dough) for the 3-lb. case is:

Flour (100%): Water (70.3704%): IDY (0.14757%): Salt (1.64063%): Canola Oil (2.66999%): Sugar (0.19531%): Semolina (11.1111%): Total (186.135%):

703.06 g  |  24.8 oz | 1.55 lbs 494.74 g  |  17.45 oz | 1.09 lbs 1.04 g | 0.04 oz | 0 lbs | 0.34 tsp | 0.11 tbsp 11.53 g | 0.41 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.07 tsp | 0.69 tbsp 18.77 g | 0.66 oz | 0.04 lbs | 4.13 tsp | 1.38 tbsp 1.37 g | 0.05 oz | 0 lbs | 0.34 tsp | 0.11 tbsp 78.12 g | 2.76 oz | 0.17 lbs | 7.48 tbsp | 0.47 cups 1308.64 g | 46.16 oz | 2.89 lbs | TF = N/A

Peter

[BrickStoneOven]

I meant to say dough sorry. I just finished making the Caputo dough 5 minutes ago... my back hurts so much hand kneading. Here is the recipe I used:

6 lbs. water
21⁄2 oz. sea salt
0.7 oz. compressed cake yeast
10 lbs. Caputo flour

I did it so I would use one bag of 2.2.

[BrickStoneOven]

I just read your last post and thought it over. So how much would make the "aged dough" worth using. Oh and you said with the "aged dough" its a total of 26.13LBS it is supposed to be 25LBS total with the "aged dough" added, that's how it is said in the recipe.

[Pete-zza]

Based on the ingredients you provided, the dough formulation for the Caputo old dough from a baker's percent perspective is:

Flour (100%): Water (60%): CY (0.4375%): Salt (1.5625%): Total (162%):

4536 g  |  160 oz | 10 lbs 2721.6 g  |  96 oz | 6 lbs 19.85 g | 0.7 oz | 0.04 lbs | 70.87 g | 2.5 oz | 0.16 lbs | 4.23 tbsp | 0.26 cups 7348.32 g | 259.2 oz | 16.2 lbs | TF = N/A

For a piece of old dough that weighs 1.84 ounces, the breakdown is:

Flour (100%): Water (60%): CY (0.4375%): Salt (1.5625%): Total (162%):

32.2 g  |  1.14 oz | 0.07 lbs 19.32 g  |  0.68 oz | 0.04 lbs 0.14 g | 0 oz | 0 lbs | 0.5 g | 0.02 oz | 0 lbs | 0.09 tsp | 0.03 tbsp 52.16 g | 1.84 oz | 0.11 lbs | TF = N/A

As you can see, a 1.84 ounce piece of old dough is unworkable.

Can you clarify what you mean by your last sentence? Ten pounds of flour is about 4.5 kilograms. One kilogram is 2.2 pounds.

Peter

[BrickStoneOven]

I bought 4 bags of "00" Caputo flour, they are 2.2 pounds each I made this recipe

6 lbs.
21⁄2 oz. sea salt
0.7 oz. compressed cake yeast
10 lbs. Caputo flour

Instead of using 10 pounds of flour which the recipe calls for. I used 2.2 pounds (1 bag) and my mom adjusted the recipe to that 1 bag. Reason I am asking on here for a smaller version of the other recipe is because my mom and dad went to Cali for a wedding and I couldn't call her. I was just going to make the dough I made with that one bag recipe and just add the "aged dough" to the other dough recipe. I just needed to know how much of the "aged dough" and the other ingredients I needed.

Thanks

David.

[Pete-zza]

I just read your last post and thought it over. So how much would make the "aged dough" worth using. Oh and you said with the "aged dough" its a total of 26.13LBS it is supposed to be 25LBS total with the "aged dough" added, that's how it is said in the recipe.

I added up all of the weights for all of the ingredients, without the old dough, and got 402.05 ounces, or 25.13 pounds, to wit:

Flour: 13.5 pounds, or 216 ounces
Water: 9 1/2 pounds, or 152 ounces
Semolina: 1 1/2 pounds, or 24 ounces
Salt: 6 T. (18 t.), 3.54375 ounces
Sugar: 1 T. (3 t.), 0.421875 ounces
IDY: 1 T. (3 t.), 0.31875 ounces
Canola oil: 5 ounces (fluid), or 3/4 cup, 5.7671928 ounces.
Total: 402.0515678 ounces, or 25.12822298 pounds

For recommendations on the amount of old dough to use, see the pre-fermented dough section of the Rosada article at http://web.archive.org/web/20040814193817/cafemeetingplace.com/archives/food3_apr2004.htm. The recommendations given in the article are with respect to bread dough but should serve as a useful guide for pizza dough also.

If you used 2.2 pounds of Caputo flour, or 35.2 ounces, the corresponding dough formulation for that case is:

Flour (100%): Water (60%): CY (0.4375%): Salt (1.5625%): Total (162%):

997.92 g  |  35.2 oz | 2.2 lbs 598.75 g  |  21.12 oz | 1.32 lbs 4.37 g | 0.15 oz | 0.01 lbs | 15.59 g | 0.55 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.79 tsp | 0.93 tbsp 1616.63 g | 57.02 oz | 3.56 lbs | TF = N/A

BTW, what style pizza are you trying to make?

Peter

[BrickStoneOven]

To tell you the truth idk, most likely a thin crust like NY style. But if you are saying that using the "aged dough" then I won't and I'll use the caputo for Neapolitan and I'll make another dough because I just got a 50 pound bag of All Trumps GM flour. My goal is to make thin crust pizza. Thanks by the way with the quick replys.

Thanks

David

[Pete-zza]

David,

Since we have come this far, why don't you try the following: Take 8 ounces of your Caputo old dough and incorporate it into the final mix with the following ingredients:

All Trumps Flour (100%): Water (70.3704%): IDY (0.14757%): Salt (1.64063%): Canola Oil (2.66999%): Sugar (0.19531%): Semolina (11.1111%): Total (186.135%):

609.24 g  |  21.49 oz | 1.34 lbs 428.72 g  |  15.12 oz | 0.95 lbs 0.9 g | 0.03 oz | 0 lbs | 0.3 tsp | 0.1 tbsp 10 g | 0.35 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.79 tsp | 0.6 tbsp 16.27 g | 0.57 oz | 0.04 lbs | 3.58 tsp | 1.19 tbsp 1.19 g | 0.04 oz | 0 lbs | 0.3 tsp | 0.1 tbsp 67.69 g | 2.39 oz | 0.15 lbs | 6.49 tbsp | 0.41 cups 1134 g | 40 oz | 2.5 lbs | TF = N/A

As you will note, the 8 ounces of the Caputo old dough and the 40 ounces from the above dough formulation give you a total of 48 ounces, or 3 pounds, as you requested. The hydration of the dough formulation given above will actually be around 62-63% when treating the AT flour and semolina collectively and when accounting for the lower hydration of the Caputo old dough. The 62-63% hydration should work reasonably well.

If you plan to make a NY style, I would use about 9.6 ounces per dough ball for a roughly 12" pizza size. The 48 ounces of dough will give you five pizzas.

I hope you will let me know what results you achieve, for better or for worse, and post some photos if you can.

Peter

[BrickStoneOven]

Thanks for all the help, I will post pictures and tell you how everything goes. I have another question aswell can I mix a little semolina and AP flour and use that for streching the dough out insted of of using just flour?

[Pete-zza]

I have another question as well can I mix a little semolina and AP flour and use that for streching the dough out insted of of using just flour?

David,

Yes, you can. That is like a bench flour blend that Papa John's uses except that they add a little bit of soybean oil to their blend. They call their blend Dustinator.

Peter

[BrickStoneOven]

Is the mix for making the streching easier?

[Pete-zza]

Is the mix for making the streching easier?

David,

I think it is used for several purposes: to help reduce surface moisture, which should make it easier to stretch and toss the dough skins, and for flavor/texture. I understand that the oil in the blend is to keep the blend from going airborne too much and messing with the air conditioning.

There are quite a few NY pizza style operators who use semolina flour on the bench. However, this can make a mess in their deck ovens and require frequent brushing to remove the burned semolina.

Peter

[BrickStoneOven]

Thanks again, I am doing all this because I want to open a pizza place and I want to get everything down before I do.

David

[BrickStoneOven]

Well I did it, they came out pretty good. Sorry I have no pictures but the animals at my house are well... animals. The dough had a nice stretching characteristic(idk what you would call that). Took around 5 minutes for the first 2 or 3, and the last couple took like 7 mins because I was just throwing them in one after another. The crust was crunchy on the outside and chewy inside. I had a little trouble opening the first couple but I figured out the right way of opening them by the 4th one, not saying the first 3 were bad but the last couple I was opening REALLY well. The taste of the dough was spot on, the sauce was good but was kinda watery. The wateryness of the sauce kinda made the middle of the pizza floppy. They were saying the sauce was better this time then last time though. How can I get the sauce to be less watery and more thick. I used Napoli D.O.P Pomodoro San Marzano tomato's. I took out the seeds and the basil that's in the can and put the tomato's in a food processor and pulsed it about 10 times. I just added a little salt and oregano and that's it just added on dough. Should I cook it for a little to thicken it? All in all it was good.

[Pete-zza]

David,

Which recipes did you actually use, and did you do everything as originally planned, including using the Caputo old dough? It seemed to me that your IDY levels in the basic dough were a bit on the low side.

The "nice stretching characteristic" you mentioned is called "extensibility". The opposite characteristic is "elasticity".

If you search the sauce ingredients boards of the forum you will find a lot of information there on how to process the San Marzanos.

Maybe next time you can restrain the animals and take some photos.

Peter

[BrickStoneOven]

Yea I did everything as planned, I used the 40oz of dough with the 8oz of Caputo recipe. As for the IDY I think it was fine the dough had a good rise. I want to make it again but I want to make 6 pounds of dough now, should I just double the recipe and add a little more Caputo. I don't know if I should try making the dough with or without the Caputo added and see how it tastes. My friend has a mixer at his store and he is letting me use it so I can make a bigger batch.