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[Pete-zza]

David,

Yes, you should double the dough formulation set forth in Reply 11 (to give you 80 ounces of the basic dough) and use 16 ounces of the Caputo old dough, for a total of 98 ounces. To make life a bit easier for yourself, I suggest that you use the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html. To use that tool, select the Dough Weight option, enter 80 ounces as the dough batch weight, enter "1" as the number of dough balls, and enter the baker's percents (except for the flour) given in Reply 11 in the right places. That way, you will also become more familiar with the use of the tool.

I agree that it is a good idea to try making the basic dough without the Caputo old dough to see if you notice a big difference. If not, another possibility is to increase the amount of the Caputo old dough. For example, you might use 12 ounces of old dough and 36 ounces of the basic dough to give you a 3-pound dough batch, as before.

Peter

[BrickStoneOven]

See the thing is the original recipe makes 25 pounds of dough and it asks for 16oz of Cauputo. Should I still add 16oz to the 6 pounds? But I think this time I will make it without the Caputo dough and see if there is a difference weather it be small or big.

[Pete-zza]

David,

Based on the last example for a 3-pound dough batch, for a 6-pound batch you would use 16 ounces of Caputo old dough and 80 ounces of the basic dough, for a total of 96 ounces, or 6 pounds. If you want to use proportionately more Caputo old dough to see if the results are better than what you last achieved, you could try 24 ounces of the Caputo old dough and 72 ounces of the basic dough, which will again be a total of 96 ounces, or 6 pounds. You can use the expanded dough calculating tools to crunch all of the numbers for either scenario. The numbers will not align with your original recipe because we changed the proportion of the amount of Caputo old dough to use. If you would like to make the original dough batch using 25.13 pounds of your regular dough and one pound of your Caputo old dough, then that is certainly something you can do, especially since you have access to a mixer to make the dough.

Peter

[BrickStoneOven]

Flour (100%):                    1523.09 g  |  53.72 oz | 3.36 lbs
Water (70.3704%):            1071.8 g  |  37.81 oz | 2.36 lbs
IDY (0.14757%):                    2.25 g | 0.08 oz | 0 lbs | 0.75 tsp | 0.25 tbsp
Salt (1.64063%):            24.99 g | 0.88 oz | 0.06 lbs | 4.48 tsp | 1.49 tbsp
Canola Oil (2.66999%):    40.67 g | 1.43 oz | 0.09 lbs | 8.95 tsp | 2.98 tbsp
Sugar (0.19531%):            2.97 g | 0.1 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.75 tsp | 0.25 tbsp
Semolina (11.1111%):            169.23 g | 5.97 oz | 0.37 lbs | 16.21 tbsp | 1.01 cups
Total (186.135%):           2835 g | 100 oz | 6.25 lbs | TF = N/A
Single Ball:                           283.5 g | 10 oz | 0.62 lbs

Is this right I just put all the % in that were in the previous recipe you made for me in all the places. I put the single dough ball weight at 10oz(would this be to big for a 12"~ pizza) and put in that I want 10 dough balls. The above recipe is what I got. I'm doing this recipe without the Caputo this time and see how it works out. Next batch I will make it with Caputo.

[Pete-zza]

David,

Your numbers are correct. Soon, you wont need me anymore and I will be able to release you to the wild. However, I usually use a bowl residue compensation of 1.5% to compensate for minor dough losses during preparation of the dough in a stand mixer. Doing that will yield the following:

Flour (100%): Water (70.3704%): IDY (0.14757%): Salt (1.64063%): Canola Oil (2.66999%): Sugar (0.19531%): Semolina (11.1111%): Total (186.135%): Single Ball:

1545.93 g  |  54.53 oz | 3.41 lbs 1087.88 g  |  38.37 oz | 2.4 lbs 2.28 g | 0.08 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.76 tsp | 0.25 tbsp 25.36 g | 0.89 oz | 0.06 lbs | 4.54 tsp | 1.51 tbsp 41.28 g | 1.46 oz | 0.09 lbs | 9.09 tsp | 3.03 tbsp 3.02 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.76 tsp | 0.25 tbsp 171.77 g | 6.06 oz | 0.38 lbs | 16.46 tbsp | 1.03 cups 2877.52 g | 101.5 oz | 6.34 lbs | TF = N/A 287.75 g | 10.15 oz | 0.63 lbs

Note: Bowl residue compensation = 1.5%

A 10-ounce dough ball for a 12" pizza translates into a thickness factor of 10/(3.14159 x 6 x 6) = 0.08842. That will work for a thin style pizza. If you use the Thickness Factor option of the expanded dough calculating tool, you can play around with different crust thicknesses for your pizzas.

Peter

[BrickStoneOven]

I'm doing this by hand... agian because my friends mixer doesn't work. When I mix the dough there isn't really that much left in the bowl just a little dough stuck to the sides. How long should I knead it for, I usually hand knead for like 20-25 mins. That's what I'm going for is a NY style, so the TF is where it's supposed to be right?

[Pete-zza]

David,

Actually, when I knead dough by hand I use a larger bowl residue compensation, maybe something around 2.5-3%. You will be surprised how much dough ends up sticking to spoons, bowls, bench knives, work surfaces and your hands. Sometime weigh a dough batch and compare that against the weight shown by the expanded dough calculating tool but without a bowl residue compensation.

Over the years, I have seen a lot of thickness factor values for a basic NY thin style. Some of the old time places in NYC used thickness factors as low as 0.06 but I would say that a typical range is about 0.08-0.105, as I noted in the first paragraph in Reply 10 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9558.msg83133.html#msg83133. As you will see, your thickness factor value falls in the range. FYI, Tom Lehmann, who is mentioned in the abovereferenced post, is a pizza/dough guru with the American Institute of Baking. His NY style dough recipe is one of the favorites among the members of this forum.

I assume that the 20-25 minutes knead time you mentioned is for a 3-lb. dough batch. If so, then you will obviously need a longer knead time for a 6.25-lb. dough batch. I almost never hand knead dough batches larger than for one or two pizzas, but when I do hand knead I go by experience and knowing what the final dough should look and feel like for the particular style. That is something you will eventually learn whether you are hand kneading or using your mixer.

Peter

[BrickStoneOven]

That is why I was asking how long to knead for, when I was kneading my last two batches they were both around the same weight ~3pounds so that's why I kneaded for 20-25 minutes. Now I will do it for about 40-45 or see when it gets to that smooth look. So should I go back to the calculator and put in a higher residue and see what it says. I don't really get a to much left in the bowl, but I do seem to get a lot on my hands and the dough cutter. I try to scrap off as much dough I can off my fingers, but I always end up rubbing my hands into the sink. I would say I lose around 1.5-2 ounces altogether. My last batch came out really well, the rise in the frig was good and I only needed to let it sit out for about an hour and it was ready to stretch. I wish I had a mixer every time I am done kneading I feel like an old lady my back hurts so much.

[BrickStoneOven]

This is what I got by putting in the 2.5% residue factory, I did it with the TF so I put in I wanted 12" pizza's. Last time I did it with the Dough Weight checked.

Flour (100%):    1412.51 g  |  49.82 oz | 3.11 lbs
Water (70.3704%):    993.99 g  |  35.06 oz | 2.19 lbs
IDY (0.14757%):    2.08 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.69 tsp | 0.23 tbsp
Salt (1.64063%):    23.17 g | 0.82 oz | 0.05 lbs | 4.15 tsp | 1.38 tbsp
Canola Oil (2.66999%):    37.71 g | 1.33 oz | 0.08 lbs | 8.3 tsp | 2.77 tbsp
Sugar (0.19531%):    2.76 g | 0.1 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.69 tsp | 0.23 tbsp
Semolina (11.1111%):    156.95 g | 5.54 oz | 0.35 lbs | 15.04 tbsp | 0.94 cups
Total (186.135%):   2629.17 g | 92.74 oz | 5.8 lbs | TF = 0.082
Single Ball:   262.92 g | 9.27 oz | 0.58 lbs

[Pete-zza]

David,

Using a thickness factor of 0.08 in the expanded dough calculating tool along with a BRC of 2.5% produces the results you noted. As you make the test pizzas and try out different dough ball weights and/or thickness factors, you should get a better feel for the precise pizza profile you are looking for. Using the tool makes the math and the experiments a lot easier. I print out the outputs of the tool and make my notes on the printouts. That way, I don't have to rely only on memory.

Peter

[BrickStoneOven]

I just finished cleaning after making dough. I started around 8:30 p.m and finished around 10:00 p.m. This is the recipe I used.

Flour (100%):    1412.51 g  |  49.82 oz | 3.11 lbs
Water (70.3704%):    993.99 g  |  35.06 oz | 2.19 lbs
IDY (0.14757%):    2.08 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.69 tsp | 0.23 tbsp
Salt (1.64063%):    23.17 g | 0.82 oz | 0.05 lbs | 4.15 tsp | 1.38 tbsp
Canola Oil (2.66999%):    37.71 g | 1.33 oz | 0.08 lbs | 8.3 tsp | 2.77 tbsp
Sugar (0.19531%):    2.76 g | 0.1 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.69 tsp | 0.23 tbsp
Semolina (11.1111%):    156.95 g | 5.54 oz | 0.35 lbs | 15.04 tbsp | 0.94 cups
Total (186.135%):   2629.17 g | 92.74 oz | 5.8 lbs | TF = 0.082
Single Ball:   262.92 g | 9.27 oz | 0.58 lbs

I mixed everything together for about 7 minutes. Now for the kneading, I was kneading for 37 minutes(my back and wrists HURT). After done kneading I shaped the dough into a big ball and let rest under a damp cloth for 25 minutes. I now cut the ball in half and then into 5ths. I weighed and shaped each one. I made 9-9.4~ ounce balls and 1-8.5~ ounce ball. I put a coat of oil on the dough balls and put them in the frig. Picture 1-3 are what residue was left over. The picture with the bowl residue makes it look like there is a lot of dough left in there but in person it doesn't really have that much in there. Picture 4 & 5 is of the dough ball after kneading and letting it rest for 25 minutes under the cloth. And the last 2 are the dough balls shaped and put in boxes for rise.(guess which one the 8 ounce is) lol. Lets see how it comes out Sunday.

[BrickStoneOven]

How can I post pictures, it says they are to big?

[Matthew]

How can I post pictures, it says they are to big?

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/Downloads/powertoys/Xppowertoys.mspx & downolad the image resizer.  Once you've installed the tool, open up your photo, right click your mouse, click on resize pictures & select small.

Matt

[BrickStoneOven]

Pictures 1-3

[BrickStoneOven]

Pictures 4 & 5

[BrickStoneOven]

Pictures 6 & 7

[BrickStoneOven]

The results. I cooked at 550F ave cook time was 5.5-6 minutes. Made one calzone and one bread with some cheese on top.

[BrickStoneOven]

I wanted to try a 48 hour ferment so I made my dough this morning. I made 425g balls they are for 16" pie's. I used the garlic and onion powder it made my kitchen smell like garlic bread.

Flour (100%):    2059.12 g  |  72.63 oz | 4.54 lbs
Water (70.3704%):    1449.01 g  |  51.11 oz | 3.19 lbs
IDY (0.14757%):    3.04 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.01 tsp | 0.34 tbsp
Salt (1.64063%):    33.78 g | 1.19 oz | 0.07 lbs | 6.05 tsp | 2.02 tbsp
Canola Oil (2.66999%):    54.98 g | 1.94 oz | 0.12 lbs | 4.04 tbsp | 0.25 cups
Sugar (0.19531%):    4.02 g | 0.14 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.01 tsp | 0.34 tbsp
Semolina (11.1111%):    228.79 g | 8.07 oz | 0.5 lbs | 21.92 tbsp | 1.37 cups
Total (186.135%):   3832.75 g | 135.19 oz | 8.45 lbs | TF = 0.08405
Single Ball:   479.09 g | 16.9 oz | 1.06 lbs

I added 6g each of garlic and onion powder. Now I know your thinking "why did he make 425g balls when it says 479g". Well last week I was making 16" pies that were 456g in weigh and I swear I could have opened those to atleast 18", so I decided to take them down a little and make them 425g.

[Pete-zza]

David,

If you really want to make 425-gram dough balls, why not use the Dough Weight option of the expanded dough calculating tool and enter the number of 425-gram dough balls that you would like to make (along with the baker's percents, BRC, etc.)? The onion and garlic powders shouldn't change weights all that much.

BTW, what size pizzas will you be making with the 425 gram dough balls?

Peter

[BrickStoneOven]

I tried that but I didn't know if my TF would be the same so I just did the TF calculator and just made the balls into 425g. I made 8 425g balls and I think the last one was around 415~. I am making the 425g into 16" pies, last week with the 456g dough balls I was making 16" but I know if I wanted to I could have opened it to a 18. Because the first balled I opened I got a little carried away because I was happy I could make a bigger pie and opened it a past my 16" screen and had hang over. That wasnt fun because I actually put the screen into bake and the crust went under the screen and cooked and it took me like 5 minutes to take off the screen and put on the stone.