Author Topic: First Pies with KASL,Very Impressed (W/Pics)  (Read 4284 times)

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Offline ThunderStik

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First Pies with KASL,Very Impressed (W/Pics)
« on: December 04, 2009, 01:20:40 PM »
As you will see in the pics it was "boys night out" so to speak. I wasnt gonna bake last night as I had a very long day but the wife had told the boys earlier that I was gonna make pizza. I told them I was tired but then they started poutin around saying they wanted pizza so I caved in. Plus I knew the doughs were ready to go so I asked if they wanted to join in and sure enough they did.

I did the final shaping of the doughs and all peel work but they did everything else. They handled the dough but once it got big enough I took over. We all had a good time.

The pies:

3@ 16"
TF= .07 (IIRC)
Hyd=60%
Salt=2.25
Honey=4%
Oil= 7 %
IDY=.4%

As this is a high protien flour I did not want to start off with a heavy knead. I wanted to go with what I felt would be a good solid knead to start out, about 15-18 minutes. What I quickly figured out was I did not need to go that long. I figured out right there on the spot that I do not knead for certain times (unless its an experiment) that no matter what flour I use and what hydration I use that I just go for a certain texture of dough feel. It never dawned on me really and I dont know why, as I rarely watch a clock.

What made me think of this was like I said, this was a new flour so I figured I would go with a pre determined knead time but at about 10-12 minutes in the dough was ready. Thats when it hit me. It just felt done. So I didnt go any further.

Cold fermented for 4.5 days. Baked on a well preheated stone at approx 630-650 degrees stone temp with the stone laying in the botton of the oven, not on a rack. Air temp was measured at 610 +/- 10 per oven thermometer.

Pies were cooked on the stone for 90 seconds and finished on the very top rack for 2-2.5 minutes. (This method I picked up from Pete and it works well)

The dough in all phases from initial mixing to shaping the skin handled outstanding. I really love this flour. The dough is really robust, properly fermented it just forms an outstanding skin. Those that have said it will take more hydration than normal flours are right on as this dough could have easily been a little wetter. But it didnt need to be.

The flavor of the pies was outstanding, actually amazing. Right up there with the best I have ever made, which were long term ferments. The aroma was great and the texture was outstanding.

I paid $28.00 for the 50lb sack of the KASL and it was totally worth it.

Pics will follow.
I KNOW MORE ABOUT PIZZA THAN ANYBODY!!!!!!!

(in my house)


Offline ThunderStik

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Re: First Pies with KASL,Very Impressed (W/Pics)
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2009, 01:22:17 PM »
My brother John making his first pie.
I KNOW MORE ABOUT PIZZA THAN ANYBODY!!!!!!!

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Offline ThunderStik

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Re: First Pies with KASL,Very Impressed (W/Pics)
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2009, 01:24:10 PM »
My youngest son Lane making his first pie.
I KNOW MORE ABOUT PIZZA THAN ANYBODY!!!!!!!

(in my house)

Offline ThunderStik

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Re: First Pies with KASL,Very Impressed (W/Pics)
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2009, 01:25:31 PM »
My oldest Gabriel and his first pie.
I KNOW MORE ABOUT PIZZA THAN ANYBODY!!!!!!!

(in my house)

Offline ThunderStik

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Re: First Pies with KASL,Very Impressed (W/Pics)
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2009, 01:26:21 PM »
All in all it was a good night and great fun. Im glad I did it.
I KNOW MORE ABOUT PIZZA THAN ANYBODY!!!!!!!

(in my house)

Online norma427

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Re: First Pies with KASL,Very Impressed (W/Pics)
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2009, 04:25:32 PM »
ThunderStik,
You pies make with the KASL look outstanding.  ;D I really like the KASL now, too.
Your pictures are beautiful and your airy crust is great. 
You sons Lane and Gabriel are adorable.  That was a great family sharing experience making the pies together..  Looks like your sons did a great job making the pies.  Are you getting your brother, John also interested in making pizza?
Good report and wonderful family togetherness.  That is what most great pizza makers have handed down to their children from generation to generation.
Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline ThunderStik

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Re: First Pies with KASL,Very Impressed (W/Pics)
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2009, 05:14:05 PM »
Norma, my brother is the "burger-man" of the family but last night he said "that was pretty fun". So maybe I can get him into it. We have been talking about opening a small pizza and burger joint somewhere in town for a while, maybe at some point we can do that. I need to get him some kitchen skills anyway so I can get him married off.  :-D

The boys had a great time and were VERY VERY proud of themselves. I guess the pie was good as there was only 2 slices left this morning and I had them for breakfast.
I think this is going to be my new "goto" recipe. Its basically the same recipe as the one I formulated for the wife but without an autolyse and 100% bread flour (KASL). I was very impressed with it.
I KNOW MORE ABOUT PIZZA THAN ANYBODY!!!!!!!

(in my house)

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: First Pies with KASL,Very Impressed (W/Pics)
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2009, 06:55:23 PM »

I think this is going to be my new "goto" recipe. Its basically the same recipe as the one I formulated for the wife but without an autolyse and 100% bread flour (KASL). I was very impressed with it.

Bill,

What you have created is a cross between an "elite" (super-thin) NY style (high-gluten flour, relatively high hydration and large 16" size) and a Papa John's American style (large amounts of sugar and oil) :chef:. That should keep everyone happy ;D.

I like that you have gotten the boys interested in what you do with your pizza making. Once they have an ownership interest in what they do, they will look more favorably on the results, almost by definition.

Peter

Offline JConk007

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Re: First Pies with KASL,Very Impressed (W/Pics)
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2009, 09:27:41 PM »
Thunderstik,
Great pies and Post, I also tried this flour and loved it too!http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8774.0.html I have never gone 4.5 days though Not that I would not try it but the dough just does not stick arounf the fridge here too Long. I too strarted my Daughter making Pies when she was just 3 and she loves it now and its some much fun to watch her toss the dough and roll it out !http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7592.msg65181.html#msg65181 Problem is now as soon as she sees the mixer come out......!
Keep up the good work!
John
« Last Edit: December 04, 2009, 09:52:06 PM by JConk007 »
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Offline ThunderStik

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Re: First Pies with KASL,Very Impressed (W/Pics)
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2009, 12:53:36 PM »
JConk,

Thanks for the kind words. Yeah ya got get them started young. They are hittin me up already about "next time" so I need to get another batch goin.

Of course I guess thats not true as I didnt start till this year or late last year. Either way though it is fun and I can see them getting really addicted to the making of pizza.

I dont think any of my boys, my brother included are ready to toss like your little girl tho. I may see about make a special tossing dough for them to practice on.
       
I KNOW MORE ABOUT PIZZA THAN ANYBODY!!!!!!!

(in my house)


Offline ThunderStik

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Re: First Pies with KASL,Very Impressed (W/Pics)
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2009, 01:11:57 PM »
Bill,

What you have created is a cross between an "elite" (super-thin) NY style (high-gluten flour, relatively high hydration and large 16" size) and a Papa John's American style (large amounts of sugar and oil) :chef:.

Peter

Thats good to know, I have never had an "elite" before but if its anything like what I made I know I would like it. The dough was very fermented and was towards the tail end of the window and as such had a great flavor. Especially because I activated the yeast before hand so they had a head start. It had that same flavor profile as the 7 and 14 day ferments that I did in some earlier experiments. This was the first time I had experienced that flavor in such a short time.

I know everybody loved it. The wife still preferrs the AP+autolyse version of it as its easier for her to eat but she did love the flavor of the crust. I may look into seeing if I can achieve that flavor profile with the AP. Something tells me its goona be hard to acheive in that short a period also. Plus the KASL does contribute something to the aroma and an altogether better dough.

I just really dont want to mess with this version though, I really could not ask for a better pizza crust. While I tend to like a more "authentic" flour/salt/water/yeast dough also, this dough has a far more complex flavor to offer and is definately easier to eat as leftovers.

Bill

I KNOW MORE ABOUT PIZZA THAN ANYBODY!!!!!!!

(in my house)

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: First Pies with KASL,Very Impressed (W/Pics)
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2009, 02:00:48 PM »
Bill,

With a thickness factor of about 0.07, it is possible that you may be able to use all-purpose flour satisfactorily. I say that because, in my experience, the differences in flours are less pronounced when used to form very thin "elite" style crusts. With thicker crusts, you get more crust with each bite and you are more likely to detect the differences in both flavor and texture. You might not get the same crust coloration and the same total flavor impact using the all-purpose flour in lieu of the KASL but there are ways of compensating in part for those shortfalls. For example, you might use a combination of vital wheat gluten (VWG) and dried dairy whey along with the all-purpose flour. I once used such a combination when I was trying to create an entry-level version of a Lehmann NY style pizza using all-purpose flour in lieu of KASL. I described the predicate of such a pizza at Reply 204 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,576.msg15668.html#msg15668 and posted a dough formulation using all-purpose flour, VWG and dried dairy whey, along with a reduced hydration value consistent with the rated absorption value of the all-purpose flour, in the following Reply 205.

At the time I entered the abovementioned Replies 204 and 205, the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html and the Mixed Mass Percentage Calculator at http://foodsim.unclesalmon.com/ did not exist. Today I would use both of those tools to come up with a test dough formulation simply because those tools are better and more accurate than the old ways I used (which now strike me as being archaic). In using the expanded dough calculating tool, there should be no need to adjust the water quantity if the correct values are entered into that tool. I might add that there would be no reason to use a targeted protein content of 14.2%, which is the rated protein content of the KASL. Using a lower targeted protein content should yield a somewhat softer crust.

Peter
« Last Edit: March 15, 2013, 09:32:50 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline ThunderStik

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Re: First Pies with KASL,Very Impressed (W/Pics)
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2010, 11:06:33 AM »
I just made this recipe again and it was outstanding. I would say this is easily one of my faves. 

I encourage folks to give it a try. I will say that the KASL does contribute to the overall pie, so I would say use it if at all possible.

Bill
I KNOW MORE ABOUT PIZZA THAN ANYBODY!!!!!!!

(in my house)

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: First Pies with KASL,Very Impressed (W/Pics)
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2010, 07:01:41 AM »
That's a fine looking pizza making crew you got there Bill! (Pizza looks great too)

Craig
« Last Edit: February 20, 2010, 07:17:24 AM by TXCraig1 »
Pizza is not bread.

Offline Billy Boy

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Re: First Pies with KASL,Very Impressed (W/Pics)
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2010, 08:51:17 AM »
Bill,
From one Bill to another; I don't suppose you'd be willing to share your dough recipe would you?!
I am a CEC who runs a corporate cafeteria in northern NJ. I also do ALOT of baking for my facility(all sweet). I am widely considered to be the pizza making guru when it comes to training new pizza makers on forming pizzas and using the oven. Unforetunately, because of the nature of our facility; we use frozen, pre-portioned(GASP) dough balls for convenience sake! As such, I am looking for my perfect recipe so that Friday night pizza night at my house has a more personal stamp on it!
Any help you can afford me in my endeavors for the perfect recipe would be most appreciated.
BB,CEC

 :chef: :pizza:

Offline ThunderStik

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Re: First Pies with KASL,Very Impressed (W/Pics)
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2010, 06:04:25 PM »
 Bill,  Gimme a little time and I will get the method up for you. I have a full house right now.
I KNOW MORE ABOUT PIZZA THAN ANYBODY!!!!!!!

(in my house)

Offline Billy Boy

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Re: First Pies with KASL,Very Impressed (W/Pics)
« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2010, 07:55:22 PM »
BTW Bill,
I assume that by KASL you are referring to their Sir Lancelot Bread Flour?
That's alot of protein!
Thanks in advance when you get around to it bud! Have a great w/e.
BB,CEC

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Offline ThunderStik

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Re: First Pies with KASL,Very Impressed (W/Pics)
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2010, 05:40:47 PM »
Billy Boy, I have not forgot about you, its just been a hell of a week. I should be getting everything up tonight.
I KNOW MORE ABOUT PIZZA THAN ANYBODY!!!!!!!

(in my house)

Offline Billy Boy

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Re: First Pies with KASL,Very Impressed (W/Pics)
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2010, 05:32:02 PM »
Bill?
 ;) :chef: :pizza:

Offline Billy Boy

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Re: First Pies with KASL,Very Impressed (W/Pics)
« Reply #19 on: March 30, 2010, 05:37:55 PM »
 
Bill!
Dying to hear from you dude!
No fair leaving me hanging like this!
PLEASE
BB

 :chef: ;)