Author Topic: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza  (Read 138566 times)

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Offline JimmyG

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1080 on: December 21, 2011, 06:27:31 PM »
Norma,
Great photos, your making my stomach growl for pizza.
Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought.


Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1081 on: December 21, 2011, 06:32:54 PM »
Peter,
Based off the sheet I am going to most likely have to make a few assumptions with the math e.g. 10 mg of bromate per kg of flour = 10 parts per million concentration. I wasn't sure about pH of this variety of starter. I know yourself and Norma have worked with pHs and starters before, would a pH of 5.5 sound about right or would that be a little low.

Jimmy,

I donít know what Peter will have to say, but I did take some pH readings at Reply 852 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9908.msg143544.html#msg143544  Again at Reply 861 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9908.msg143932.html#msg143932  Then again at Reply 868 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9908.msg144797.html#msg144797  but all those reading were done with using KASL flour.  If you want me to do pH readings again using the Gigantic bromated flour I can if it will help.

Norma
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Offline JimmyG

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1082 on: December 21, 2011, 06:42:37 PM »
Norma,
5.5 looks good enough. It may be a little lower due to the potassium bromide but the math should workout just fine. I just need to approximate the amount of hydrogen ions in solution.
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Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1083 on: December 21, 2011, 07:07:08 PM »
Norma,
5.5 looks good enough. It may be a little lower due to the potassium bromide but the math should workout just fine. I just need to approximate the amount of hydrogen ions in solution.


Jimmy,

I sure don't know how you will approximate the amount of hydrogen ions in the solution, but would be interested in you results if can.

Norma
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Online Pete-zza

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1084 on: December 21, 2011, 08:33:09 PM »
I donít know what Peter will have to say, but I did take some pH readings at Reply 852 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9908.msg143544.html#msg143544  Again at Reply 861 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9908.msg143932.html#msg143932  Then again at Reply 868 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9908.msg144797.html#msg144797  but all those reading were done with using KASL flour.

Norma,

I knew you would remember better than I. That is what happens when you are the navigator rather than the pilot :-D.

Peter

Offline JimmyG

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1085 on: December 21, 2011, 08:55:11 PM »
Norma,
It is not too bad of an equation. The dicey thing is when you go from grams to mole to grams and back again.  For now, the stochiometry predicts that for every molecule of bromate, 3 molecules of water can get created. I put in a request to one of the food chem guys at the school to see if he could obtain true numbers for bromated flour and to find a little more about this.
Jim
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Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1086 on: December 21, 2011, 09:24:52 PM »
Norma,

I knew you would remember better than I. That is what happens when you are the navigator rather than the pilot :-D.

Peter

Peter,

Lol, you mean for once I am the navigator!  :-D  Never thought that would happen.  Probably wonít happen again for a number of years!

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1087 on: December 21, 2011, 09:40:42 PM »
Norma,
It is not too bad of an equation. The dicey thing is when you go from grams to mole to grams and back again.  For now, the stochiometry predicts that for every molecule of bromate, 3 molecules of water can get created. I put in a request to one of the food chem guys at the school to see if he could obtain true numbers for bromated flour and to find a little more about this.
Jim

Jim,

For you it might not be too bad of an equation, but for me I am so bad at math that anything other than basic math is hard.  :-\ If I had to go from grams to mole to grams back again, I would be lost.  Thanks for posting that stochimetry predicts that for every molecule of bromate, 3 molecules of water can get created.  That is amazing information.  Thanks for putting in a request to one of the food chem guys at school to see if he could obtain true numbers for bromated flour.  :)

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1088 on: December 26, 2011, 06:25:41 PM »
I still must be a gluten for punishment, because I decided to use the ADM Gigantic flour again starting on Friday to make the preferment, and today to make the final dough.  :-D I wanted to see if there could be any possibility I might have done something wrong to make the preferment watery from the bromated flour in the preferment.  That is why I did the experiment again.  Today the preferment was watery again, so I can now only guess that it was the bromated flour that is causing the preferment to get watery.  At least I did the experiment 3 times, so I donít think I made any errors. 

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1089 on: December 26, 2011, 06:28:14 PM »
I started a preferment on Friday with Mondako flour to see how that flour would perform in the preferment Lehmann dough.  I mixed the final dough today and was surprised how well the dough felt when using the Mondako flour.  Even though I think the Mondako flour is lower in protein than KASL or some other flours I have tried in the preferment Lehmann dough, the dough felt fine.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1090 on: December 26, 2011, 06:30:18 PM »
I also mixed a preferment Lehmann dough this morning with the CY and molasses starter I have been playing around with at this thread. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,16884.0.html  I wanted to see how the CY and molasses starter does in the preferment Lehmann dough.  I used KASL as the flour with the CY and molasses starter.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1091 on: December 28, 2011, 08:02:42 AM »
A few pictures of the pies made with the ADM Gigantic bromated flour.  After doing the experiments for the last 3 weeks with the ADM Gigantic flour, the watery preferment really doesnít seem to affect the final dough or pizzas, at least in my opinion.  The dough balls were easy to open again this week.  The rims of pizza could have been made browner, (by letting the pizzas in the oven longer) but customers seem to prefer the lighter rims, at least in our area. 

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1092 on: December 28, 2011, 08:04:10 AM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1093 on: December 28, 2011, 08:04:56 AM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1094 on: December 28, 2011, 08:10:10 AM »
The cake yeast and molasses starter in the preferment Lehmann dough worked good.  I donít know, but think the large amount of the preferment made the cake yeast and molasses starter in the preferment and final dough rise more in a day than my regular preferment with IDY.  The pizza with the cake yeast and molasses starter was very good, but think the pizza could have been better, with adding less preferment and letting the dough room temperature ferment, but have no idea if that is true, because I havenít those methods.  This pizza with the cake yeast and molasses starter was made with KASL flour in the preferment and final dough.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1095 on: December 28, 2011, 08:12:37 AM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1096 on: December 28, 2011, 08:14:04 AM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1097 on: December 28, 2011, 08:15:31 AM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1098 on: December 28, 2011, 08:16:42 AM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1099 on: December 28, 2011, 08:22:42 AM »
The Mondako flour in the preferment and final dough also made a good pizza, and there were a few minor differences in the texture and crust, but donít think they really made any major differences in the texture, the taste of the crust or anything else.  I now wonder since I have tried KABF, ADM Gigantic bromated flour, Mondako flour and KASL in the preferment Lehmann dough, just how different each pie was.  In my opinion and my taste testers opinions, really there canít be detected hardly any differences in what flours are used.  My taste testers and I would have thought one pizza would be chewier than others, but that doesnít seem to be the case, when using any of the flours I have tried.  It would be interesting to try a lower protein flour in the preferment Lehmann dough to see what would happen at some point in time.  I also want to do an experiment with the Power flour in the next couple of weeks, to see if the Power flour really makes any difference in the preferment Lehmann dough, but from my results so far, really donít see the Power flour making much of any difference either. 

It is hard to detect from the pictures of the preferment Lehmann dough pizza with Mondako flour that Cracker Barrel white very sharp cheddar was the only cheese used to dress this pie, but the grease from using the Cracker Barrel white very sharp cheddar was very good, in my taste testers opinions and my opinion.  The cheese made the pie very greasy, but it was a good taste. 

Norma
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