Author Topic: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza  (Read 121013 times)

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Online norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1120 on: January 04, 2012, 06:50:35 AM »
This was the pie made with the 50/50 blend of Mondako and Power Flours.  The dough wasnít as easy to handle as the KASL pies, but that could be due to the fact that I mixed the 50/50 blend in my Kitchen Aid mixer instead of the Hobart mixer.  At least that is my guess.

Norma
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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1121 on: January 04, 2012, 06:52:59 AM »
Steve, my taste testers, and I really don't think the 50/50 blend of Mondako Flour and Power flour made a better pizza, at least in the preferment Lehmann dough.

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1122 on: January 04, 2012, 06:57:45 AM »
This was the pizza made with 100% Power flour.  Like the blend of Mondako and Power flour, this dough wasnít as easy to handle as the doughs made with KASL.  Steve, my taste testers, and I also didnít think the 100% Power flour made a better pizza, than KASL.  This pie was dressed with Steve's November's sauce.

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1123 on: January 04, 2012, 06:59:38 AM »
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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1124 on: January 04, 2012, 07:00:51 AM »
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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1125 on: January 04, 2012, 07:02:14 AM »
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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1126 on: January 04, 2012, 07:03:57 AM »
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Offline JimmyG

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1127 on: January 04, 2012, 09:28:22 PM »
Norma,
   Your results, regarding "dough handling", are kind of surprising given that KASL is 14.2% protein, Power is 13.5%, and Mondako is 11.9%. I would have thought the blend would have been the easiest to turn out. Any other discernible thoughts regarding the flavor or texture of the crusts?
Jim
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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1128 on: January 05, 2012, 05:48:53 AM »
Norma,
   Your results, regarding "dough handling", are kind of surprising given that KASL is 14.2% protein, Power is 13.5%, and Mondako is 11.9%. I would have thought the blend would have been the easiest to turn out. Any other discernible thoughts regarding the flavor or texture of the crusts?
Jim

Jimmy,

I also thought the results were surprising.  I am not sure if it was because the 50/50 blend of Mondako and Power Flour and the 100% Power Flour were mixed in my Kitchen Aid, or if it was because the formula for one batch is a lower TF than I am using right now for the Preferment Lehmann dough. (Since Peter set-forth the formulation for the preferment Lehmann dough, I have changed the TF to a little bit thicker, because I find that works better for me.)  It even could be since I usually make my batches of preferment in much larger batches than for just one preferment that could have something to do with the final pizzas.  I have noted before that preferments made in larger batches seem so much stronger and seem to form more gluten in the 3 day cold ferment compared to just one batch of preferment.  The larger batches seem so strong when you try to pull them out of the Cambro container and I can really see the strong gluten strands, which I canít see as much in the one dough batches.

I donít know if I would try the blends or the flours plain, that I tried in this thread on a basic Lehmann dough, if that would give me different results or not.  I donít know how a preferment affects the final texture of a pizza other than it seems to make the final pizza more artisan and gives a little better flavor.  It is all a mystery to me.

From these last two experiments and the one with the KABF, I couldnít notice any big difference in the flavor or texture of the crumb.  There was a little better browning on the bottom crust, and a little more crispness in the rim in some of the pizzas, but the pizza sounded about the same when cutting the slices.  When I tried the 100% Power flour on the Luigiís thread the pizza was a lot more crisper, but then no oil was added and also there was a lower TF. 

I wish I could figure all this out, but donít know a way to test what I have seen so far.  :-\

Norma
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Offline JimmyG

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1129 on: January 05, 2012, 09:23:11 AM »
Norma,
What might be kind of interesting and may help you to better discern between flours could be if you compared flour to flour to 50/50 mix between both flours while controlling for the other variables, e.g. hydration level, salt, oil, TF, etc. The 50/50 mix should provide a gradient between two flours and demonstrate both positive and negative elements of the flours when all three doughs are compared simultaneously.

Quote
I wish I could figure all this out, but donít know a way to test what I have seen so far. It is all a mystery to me.

I think your have done a wonderful job trying to figure out, reverse engineer, and explain your findings. I wish  the folks in my field had your dedication and clarity. BTW, trying to figure it all out is half the fun, the other half is enjoying the results. :chef:
Jim
« Last Edit: January 05, 2012, 11:21:48 PM by JimmyG »
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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1130 on: January 06, 2012, 12:57:33 PM »
Norma,
What might be kind of interesting and may help you to better discern between flours could be if you compared flour to flour to 50/50 mix between both flours while controlling for the other variables, e.g. hydration level, salt, oil, TF, etc. The 50/50 mix should provide a gradient between two flours and demonstrate both positive and negative elements of the flours when all three doughs are compared simultaneously.

I think your have done a wonderful job trying to figure out, reverse engineer, and explain your findings. I wish  the folks in my field had your dedication and clarity. BTW, trying to figure it all out is half the fun, the other half is enjoying the results. :chef:
Jim

Jim,

I wish I could do the comparisons you posted about, but I only have limited amounts of Mondako and Power flour to experiment with in the preferment Lehmann dough.  When I find time, I might take your suggestions and just try experiments on a basic Lehmann dough.  That way I wonít have to worry if the preferment is giving me any different results.  I would start a new thread if I find time to do those experiments.

Thanks for your kind comments!  I also think trying to figure all this out is half the fun too and getting to taste different experiments is a bonus.  ;D

Norma
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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1131 on: January 20, 2012, 07:53:34 AM »
These are just a few more pictures of the preferment Lehmann dough pizzas from this past Tuesday.  The reason I am posting this week is to show even how a person that makes pizzas each week can have mishaps.  In the morning everything was going fine and the preferment Lehmann dough balls were opening beautifully.  I had taken the one pizza out of the oven with the metal peel and was carrying the pizza a short distance to the top of the deli case where the pizzas are cut.  All of sudden, (for unknown reasons) the pizza decided to slip off the peel.  What a splatter, or horror subgenre with heavy amount of pizza gore on the floor, deli doors, and elsewhere.  :-D

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1132 on: January 20, 2012, 07:59:07 AM »
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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1133 on: January 20, 2012, 08:00:04 AM »
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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1134 on: January 20, 2012, 08:17:30 AM »
Norma,

We're you able to retrieve the fallen pizza, pretty it up a little bit, and sell slices to unsuspecting customers anyway, or otherwise serve up the slices to Steve and the other taste testers?

Peter

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1135 on: January 20, 2012, 08:42:45 AM »
Oh Norma, sorry to see that. 

It reminded me of a time that I had my pizza ready to go in the oven.  I opened the oven door and was sliding the pizza off the peel just as I realized that the stone was not on the rack!  The dough, sauce, and cheese fell through the bars on the rack.  What a mess. 

I enjoy this thread thanks for your postings. 

Greg

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1136 on: January 20, 2012, 09:39:33 AM »
Norma,

We're you able to retrieve the fallen pizza, pretty it up a little bit, and sell slices to unsuspecting customers anyway, or otherwise serve up the slices to Steve and the other taste testers?

Peter

Peter,

No, I wasnít able to retrieve the fallen pizza, pretty it up a little bit, and sell it to unsuspecting customers, or even serve the slices to Steve or the other taste testers.  Even though I try to keep the market floor clean (it does get dusty and flourery on the floor), I would never try to sell or give taste testers a pizza that fell on the floor.  I know there is a 5 second rule, but not in commercial eating businesses.  Until I picked-up that pizza and carried it over to the trash can there was sauce and cheese all over the floor.  I have slipped on flour that gets on the floor from using rice flour on the wooden pizza peel and almost did a split different times, even this week.  Sometimes it is like dancing on a very slippery floor.  Just glide you feet and they move.  Maybe someday I will start a new dance called the "pizza dance".  :-D

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1137 on: January 20, 2012, 09:45:34 AM »
Oh Norma, sorry to see that.  

It reminded me of a time that I had my pizza ready to go in the oven.  I opened the oven door and was sliding the pizza off the peel just as I realized that the stone was not on the rack!  The dough, sauce, and cheese fell through the bars on the rack.  What a mess.  

I enjoy this thread thanks for your postings.  

Greg

Greg,

Thanks for saying your were sorry that happened, but I wanted to show I even have mishaps.  I also had other mishaps.   :-D

Sorry to hear about what happen with you not placing a pizza stone in your oven, when you went to slide the pizza in.   :( I enjoyed hearing about that, but guess you sure had a terrible mess cleaning that up.

Thanks also for saying you enjoy reading this thread.

Norma
« Last Edit: January 20, 2012, 09:47:33 AM by norma427 »
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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1138 on: January 26, 2012, 10:07:19 AM »
These are a few pictures of the preferment Lehmann dough pizzas made on Tuesday with a different mixing method and a little higher IDY % in the final dough mix.  I had wanted to see what happen if the flour, preferment, and water were mixed first until it looked like they were incorporated, then add the IDY and salt, mix some more, and finally add the oil, how a batch would turn out in the final baked pizzas.  I am not sure if it was the mixing procedure or the small amount of IDY that made the difference.  The dough handled nicely even with the different mixing procedure and longer mix time.  The resulting pizzas looked a little more Artisan to me.  I have played around with the preferment Lehmann dough so much, but still donít know which method is the best to use.  :-D

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1139 on: January 26, 2012, 10:08:55 AM »
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