Author Topic: Pizzarium  (Read 168572 times)

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parallei

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #275 on: January 22, 2011, 10:52:05 AM »
Norma,

Thanks for the links. 

The photos on the Pizzarium Face Book page show pies that appear, to me, to be a bit thicker than what I'd imagined.

Matt,

I've been enjoying the flavor the Ischia has been giving these things.  But I'm a coward and have been giving the dough a hit of IDY in the morning.  Please post photos!

My latest was 87.5% HR + 2% oil.  Just for the heck of it, I'm going to try 100% HR.



Offline norma427

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #276 on: January 22, 2011, 11:05:57 AM »
Norma,

Thanks for the links. 

The photos on the Pizzarium Face Book page show pies that appear, to me, to be a bit thicker than what I'd imagined.

My latest was 87.5% HR + 2% oil.  Just for the heck of it, I'm going to try 100% HR.



parallei, 

I donít know what thickness factor to try in my next attempt.  I will wait and see what kind of results you and Matt get.  Best of luck in your next attempt!  :)  Your last attempt looked delcious.

This is another blog, that the owner said Gabriele Bonci, gave this person, the yeast mother of 80 who always use to make bread.

http://senzapanna.blogspot.com/2006/03/pizzarium.html

This also is an idea from a blog, for a light and airy crust using a poolish, for maybe something like pizza-in-telgia, but this is bread.

http://profumodilievito.blogspot.com/2009/11/ciabatta-con-poolish-e-autolisi-lunga.html

This is also from the same blog I posted in my last post.

http://profumodilievito.blogspot.com/search/label/pizzarium

Also on this blog http://profumodibiscotti.blogspot.com/   the author said to use this method, of adding water slowly,  will also give good rise to also the pizza strip.

Norma

Offline Matthew

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #277 on: January 22, 2011, 11:26:47 AM »
Norma,

Thanks for the links. 

The photos on the Pizzarium Face Book page show pies that appear, to me, to be a bit thicker than what I'd imagined.

Matt,

I've been enjoying the flavor the Ischia has been giving these things.  But I'm a coward and have been giving the dough a hit of IDY in the morning.  Please post photos!

My latest was 87.5% HR + 2% oil.  Just for the heck of it, I'm going to try 100% HR.



My starters have yet to fail me.  I take very good care of them & as a result they yield consistently good results.  There's nothing to be afraid of, as long as your starter is healthy & refreshed you'll be just fine.  This attempt is much different from my last.  I'm one determined SOB & I want to nail it without the use of commercial yeast.  I'm in the process of modifying my spiral mixer by adding a breaker bar to it.  My feeling is that it will be highly beneficial when mixing a super hydrated dough.  In this attempt I increased my starter, oil & salt & am using 85/15 Caputo Red to Manitoba.  Unfortunately my blue steel pans are on back order & I'm going to have to wait a couple of weeks.  I'm sure that they will make a big difference as well.

Matt
« Last Edit: January 22, 2011, 11:28:23 AM by Matthew »

Offline malvanova

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #278 on: January 22, 2011, 12:33:01 PM »
Hey John,
I'm also anxiously awaiting on my blue steel pans from Italy.  Can't wait!

Matt

To anyone buying blue steel pans ,do not wash with soap or put in dishwasher ,it will rust , just wipe with oiled paper towl and store,

   Phil

Offline Matthew

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #279 on: January 23, 2011, 07:27:38 AM »
To anyone buying blue steel pans ,do not wash with soap or put in dishwasher ,it will rust , just wipe with oiled paper towl and store,

   Phil

Thanks Phil,
The focaccia pans are blue steel, no?

Matt

Offline norma427

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #280 on: January 23, 2011, 10:23:49 AM »
This was the blog, I mentioned in my other post.  I donít know if this formula will help anyone one or not, but the crumb looks nice and airy.

http://mollicadipane.blogspot.com/2009/01/la-focaccia-croccante-di-adriano.html

This formula also call for malt, as Matt had suggested before.  Does anyone know if what they are referring to is malt powder or malt syrup? 

This is also a video to see how soft and bubbly the dough is.



In the above mentioned video it looks like they bake with the oven closed.

Does anyone know what thickness factor might be used for a formula?

Norma
« Last Edit: January 23, 2011, 10:27:10 AM by norma427 »

Offline Jose L. Piedra

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #281 on: January 23, 2011, 10:37:08 AM »
For the Focaccia or the pizzas?
Scarsu d'ogghiu, e riccu di provolazzu ::)

Offline Matthew

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #282 on: January 23, 2011, 12:06:58 PM »
This was the blog, I mentioned in my other post.  I donít know if this formula will help anyone one or not, but the crumb looks nice and airy.

http://mollicadipane.blogspot.com/2009/01/la-focaccia-croccante-di-adriano.html

This formula also call for malt, as Matt had suggested before.  Does anyone know if what they are referring to is malt powder or malt syrup? 

This is also a video to see how soft and bubbly the dough is.



In the above mentioned video it looks like they bake with the oven closed.

Does anyone know what thickness factor might be used for a formula?

Norma

Norma,
It's definitely malt syrup.  The receipe is for focaccia & is for 2.  I'm going to go out on a limb & guess that the teglia (pan) is 30cm x 40cm with about 650g per pan for a TF of approx .125.

Matt

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #283 on: January 23, 2011, 01:14:21 PM »
Norma,
It's definitely malt syrup.  The receipe is for focaccia & is for 2.  I'm going to go out on a limb & guess that the teglia (pan) is 30cm x 40cm with about 650g per pan for a TF of approx .125.

Matt

Matt,

Thanks for letting us know that it is malt syrup, used in the formulas. I will have to find where I can purchase some to try.  Also thanks for giving a TF for another attempt.

Norma


Offline Jose L. Piedra

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #284 on: January 23, 2011, 05:29:23 PM »
Hereís my latest effort. More than a year since I started this thread, Iíve finally succeeded in producing something I was really happy with. The details:

420 grams flour, enough water for about 88% hydro, .35 standard teaspoon IDY, 1.5 teaspoons salt, 3.5 oil. Dumped in my mixer, ran it until it cleaned the bowl, then less than 3 minutes of hand-kneading, 20 minute rest, another >3 minutes hand kneading, another 20 minute rest, and a final >4 minutes kneading. Refrigerated for 46 hours, warmed on counter for 3.5 hours, formed, topped with sauce, large pieces of Italian sausage, Ďshrooms, and green peppers, and then into the oven it went @ 450 for 20 minutes.

This dough had tremendous elasticity and tenacity, so much that I deliberately weighed it down with sausage to control the oven spring. That just barely worked; in fact, some bubbles formed that were so unrelenting as to just push some of the sausage sections right off (in some of the pics, you can see one forced by a bubble to stand on end- and it wasnít a little one, either). Honestly, the gluten was developed to the point of overkill and hopefully as my technique improves so will my level of control. Iíve been told that one of the things that separates the pros from the amateurs with these pies is this consistency of the crumb, and as you can see from the pics Iím still very much an amateur in that respect.

Moving along to its eating characteristics, the crust coloration was a darker brown than I usually get, something like well-done toast, and it had a nice toasty flavor on the exterior. The exterior was very lightly crispy, about at the point where chew gives way to crisp. The interior was very, very fluffy, but surprisingly toothsome and did not give the impression of biting into thin air. Finally, it was highly digestible considering how much meat there was on it. The slices I ate left me satiated, but not stuffed- something Iíve been striving for for a long time, and which led me to the Pizza Romana to begin with.   

JLP
Scarsu d'ogghiu, e riccu di provolazzu ::)

Offline Jose L. Piedra

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #285 on: January 23, 2011, 05:29:42 PM »
Another brace:
Scarsu d'ogghiu, e riccu di provolazzu ::)

Offline Jose L. Piedra

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #286 on: January 23, 2011, 05:30:30 PM »
One more:
Scarsu d'ogghiu, e riccu di provolazzu ::)

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #287 on: January 23, 2011, 05:41:56 PM »
Jose,

You do have something to be happy about.  Your slices look amazing.  ;D

Congrats on the great job you did!

Do you mind telling what thickness factor you used?  The slices look perfect for thickness factor.

Norma

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #288 on: January 23, 2011, 05:58:09 PM »
Jose - Perfection! What an incredible crumb. What flour did you use?

John

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #289 on: January 23, 2011, 06:54:07 PM »
Thanks for the positives everybody.

Norma: The TF was .15.

John: The flour was a 50-50 mix of Robin Hood bread flour and Five Roses AP, both Canadian. These flours aren't great in most respects, but they seem to have an almost infinite amount of usable gluten if worked hard enough.

JLP
Scarsu d'ogghiu, e riccu di provolazzu ::)

Offline malvanova

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #290 on: January 23, 2011, 10:16:47 PM »
Thanks Phil,
The focaccia pans are blue steel, no?

Matt

Hi Matt, yes the pans are blue steel, but the blue color is attained by firing the steel to a certain temp. and it turns a blueish tone, it is not a coating that is applied, they will darken with use to a blackish tone, it is still bare steel per say. no dishwasher no water no soap, oil wipe only, if they are the one I saw at bakeries in Italy,saw new ones blueish tone and used ones darker tones, could be diff.ones poss. ,,,  :-\ ,I bought bare steel one on last trip to Italy when I fired them first they turned a blue tone , and oiled them, returned them to the oven at 5-600F for an hr. or so and turned darker, created a non stick coating,

  Phil

Offline malvanova

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #291 on: January 23, 2011, 10:28:46 PM »
Thanks for the positives everybody.

Norma: The TF was .15.

John: The flour was a 50-50 mix of Robin Hood bread flour and Five Roses AP, both Canadian. These flours aren't great in most respects, but they seem to have an almost infinite amount of usable gluten if worked hard enough.

JLP

 
  that is a very nice crum Jose  good Job, I only use 5 Roses for my focaccia  85% hyd. mix until clears the bowl pour in blk. pans, rise, add topp., and bake, great (fohgazzz.) Barese dialect for focaccia.

  Phil


Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #292 on: January 23, 2011, 11:59:50 PM »
Nice crumb JLP.  Even better that it had the correct texture.  EPIC WIN!!!

Chau

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #293 on: January 24, 2011, 05:57:49 AM »
Very Nice Jose

Matt

Offline Jose L. Piedra

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #294 on: January 24, 2011, 12:11:45 PM »
Thanks for the kind words guys.

As a post-script, the leftover slices stood up very well to conservation; after 9 hours, they were the same as they were when they came out of the oven, except of course for the temperature. Since they didn't soften, I doubt they would have re-heated well (i.e. they would probably have turned too crispy) and were a bit too dark for re-heating in any case. However, I think that with more oil and a few minutes less bake time this formula would make for a good par-baked pizza for occasions when one is needed.

JLP
Scarsu d'ogghiu, e riccu di provolazzu ::)

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #295 on: January 25, 2011, 09:12:40 PM »
I used the dough I had made and posted about at Reply 274 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9946.msg124387.html#msg124387   

This crumb was light and the crust did taste good.

Norma

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #296 on: January 25, 2011, 09:30:58 PM »
Those are impressive to say the very least. What was the baking temp/time?

JLP
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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #297 on: January 25, 2011, 09:56:39 PM »
Those are impressive to say the very least. What was the baking temp/time?

JLP

Jose,

Thanks!  I baked this in my deck oven at market in my steel deep dish pan at temperatures about 550-565 degrees F, first on two screens and then I took the pan off the screens, because the bottom wasnít browning enough.  The bake time was about 10-12 minutes.  If you want me to post the other pictures I took, I can either post them under your thread here or at the other thread where I posted the formula and what I did to this dough.

None of my other attempts before turned out like this.  I still am not sure how a real Pizzarium slice is supposed to taste like or look like.

Norma

Offline Jose L. Piedra

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #298 on: January 25, 2011, 10:25:38 PM »
Thanks for the info. I would be very interested to see the other pics. It's up to you where you want to post them, of course, but I'd appreciate it if you would post them here because the level of control your slices display ties in with a point I made about the importance of control a few posts back (namely, had I baked my latest dough at the same temp you used, I think it it would have ballooned out into utter chaos). You seem to have found the elusive sweet-spot of optimum gluten development for this style.

For the question of whether or not they approximate Pizzarium, I find it hard to conceive how the formula you followed could possibly have yielded something fundamentally different; even if it isn't *exactly* the same, it should have the same generic properties.

JLP 
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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #299 on: January 25, 2011, 10:57:16 PM »
Thanks for the info. I would be very interested to see the other pics. It's up to you where you want to post them, of course, but I'd appreciate it if you would post them here because the level of control your slices display ties in with a point I made about the importance of control a few posts back (namely, had I baked my latest dough at the same temp you used, I think it it would have ballooned out into utter chaos). You seem to have found the elusive sweet-spot of optimum gluten development for this style.

For the question of whether or not they approximate Pizzarium, I find it hard to conceive how the formula you followed could possibly have yielded something fundamentally different; even if it isn't *exactly* the same, it should have the same generic properties.

JLP 

Jose,

I really watched how this dough was developing gluten when it was mixing and also during the proof.  I donít even know if I can do the same thing again.  The dough was really strong and almost fell open, when I went to put it into the deep-dish steel pan.  I donít know if it was because of how I mixed it or how it was proofed. 

I will post the pictures here.  If you or anyone else wants to know more what I did with this dough or how I mixed the dough, I will post about it.

The crumb in this recent pizza was light and springy.  I donít know if the crumb is supposed to spring, but the slices also tasted good cold.

Pictures below

Norma