Author Topic: commercial dough making  (Read 11618 times)

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kingofcash

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commercial dough making
« on: January 31, 2004, 01:32:37 PM »
Found this web site interesting and signed on, hoping for some input.  We run a small family owned pizza shop and are currently using frozen pre-sheeted dough. We are interested in advice on making our own dough. We have a mixer and a dough roller. We are looking for a basic dough recipe and ideas on the process of, mixing, rising, proofing and when to weigh and roll out the dough. This would be a HUGE $ saving to us, if we could get it just right. Thanks.


Offline DKM

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Re:commercial dough making
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2004, 04:57:12 PM »
What kind of pans/screens do you have?  What kind of cooler (walk in or a check with shelves)?  What kind of oven?  How much business do you do in Pizza (50 pie? 100? 500?)  Do you deliver?

How do define a baisc dough?  


I would need to know that just to start.

DKM
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Offline DKM

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Re:commercial dough making
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2004, 04:59:14 PM »
Also can you supply a picture of the current product?  Do you want it the basicly the same or different?

DKM
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kingofcash

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Re:commercial dough making
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2004, 06:56:55 PM »
We use 12"and 16" screens. We stack dough bins in our walk in cooler. We use a Randell  8' conveyor oven, making an average of 200 pizzas a week.

Yes we deliver.

Basic dough recipe......we want a medium crust...approx. 1/2" thick when cooked. No photo of end result available at this moment.

Thanks.........

Offline DKM

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Re:commercial dough making
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2004, 09:35:16 PM »
OK, give me a couple of days to check my archives.

DKM
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Offline canadianbacon

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Re:commercial dough making
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2004, 03:43:38 PM »
KingOfCash,

I wish you luck, there are hundreds of dough recipes out there, and I've made a few of those, but nothing ever comes close to the taste of a dough I've tasted at my local pizza joint.

#1, you MUST use high gluten flour - it tastes totally different from regular flour, and is the only flour pizza joints use, here where I am and at the large pizza chains.  

I was watching Emeril Live on Friday night, they had a pizza guy on and he spoke of the flour he uses several times - and that is high gluten flour.

The other thing is the oven, home ovens just don't bake the same way a commercial oven is.

My first suggest to you, is to make a dough yourself with a recipe you feel comfortable making, and use high gluten flour, - then run it through your pizza oven, and see what the result is......

If you are already in the pizza business I find it strange that somebody hasn't already given you a recipe, - from what I understand, it's not the recipe that is so different, it's the high gluten flour and ovens that make the difference.

Btw, I taped the whole Emeril show, and it was a good one !  They showed Emeril's guest in his pizza joint making the dough from scratch, then how the machine he uses to make the dough into perfect sized pizza balls, then how he lets them proof,..... then he showed how he make his award winning pizza sauce - amazing !

Good luck.
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kingofcash

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Re:commercial dough making
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2004, 04:08:49 PM »
I just finished making a batch of dough in our 20 quart mixer.(used high gluten flour)..took a basic dough recipe and did it up. We are opting for the overnight rising in the walk in. We measured and made up some dough balls to  run through the roller.  Left the other 1/2 of the dough to rise in one large bin. Will  cut and measure those in  the am, and run them through the roller and cook one of each.

We have  recipes , differant methods, and several differant opinions on water temp. (hot or cold) when adding the yeast and whether to handle the dough before or after letting it rise?  Wanted an "expert" opinion. I put the yeast into warm water and then added it to the bowl.??? The dough was quite sticky, but added additional flour until it came away from the bowl...

the emerrill show sounded interesting....sorry i missed it...thanks

Bob

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Re:commercial dough making
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2004, 02:51:01 PM »
Do you all mean the same thing by "high gluten"?  Some is 20% protein; some is 75% protein.  Is the 12-14% rule all that is necessary, or is it mandatory?  Would 75% protein flour produce the same results as the lower % protein high gluten flour?  Could the 75% protein flour be mixed with general purpose flour to achieve an average protein percentage that meets the definition of high gluten?  Am I making any sense?

Offline canadianbacon

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Re:commercial dough making
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2004, 03:08:16 PM »
Hi Bob,

Good questions you ask, unfortunately I am NOT an expert on high-gluten flour, and have never actually seen it in real life.

It's a top-secret flour it seems - you can't buy it anywhere here in Canada, - I have never ever ever seen it on store shelves, and hear you can only order it from a supplier that supplies pizza places in very large amounts.

If somebody has a bag of it, I for one would love to see an actual labe on it, where it shows the actual breakdown of what is in it.

Anyway Bob, sorry I can't help you out, but I"m sure there is somebody on this forum that can.

Mark.
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Offline Randy

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Re:commercial dough making
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2004, 03:48:06 PM »
That's interesting, Canada is a big supplier of the wheat used in High Gluten flour last time I looked.

Randy

Randy

Offline canadianbacon

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Re:commercial dough making
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2004, 03:57:39 PM »
Hi Randy,

It's funny you mentioned that, our beef industry also exports the highest quality cuts of beef that the big hotels, restos, use down there, that I guess has been put on hold because of beef scares up there though.

On the flour thing, - yeah if you are a pizza place, then you can get the high gluten flour, but you just cannot get it anywhere if you are a consumer, - it's amost like it doesn't exist.  Anywhere I go I have tried looking for it and just don't see if.  If you ask the manager at the grocery store he just gives you a blank stare, '"urg what's that ? "

anyway it's disappointing.

Mark
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Offline Randy

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Re:commercial dough making
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2004, 04:05:59 PM »
Mark maybe you could ask a baker to order an extra 50 sack.

Offline canadianbacon

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Re:commercial dough making
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2004, 04:24:22 PM »
Hi Randy,

Is that what they call high gluten flour in the pizza business ?

"Extra 50 " ?

for real ?

Mark.
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Offline Randy

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Re:commercial dough making
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2004, 04:57:49 PM »
Sorry Mark it should have read 50 pound bag

Offline Steve

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Re:commercial dough making
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2004, 07:11:05 PM »
It's a top-secret flour it seems - you can't buy it anywhere here in Canada, - I have never ever ever seen it on store shelves, and hear you can only order it from a supplier that supplies pizza places in very large amounts.

You can buy high-gluten flour in 5# bags from the King Arthur Flour Company (that's where I buy mine). Jump over to http://www.kingarthurflour.com and search for "Sir Lancelot" flour.

You won't be disappointed.

Offline Steve

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Re:commercial dough making
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2004, 07:20:01 PM »
Sorry, their website can be a little confusing.

Click on this link http://www.kingarthurflour.com and then click on "Baker's Catalogue Online"

From there, search for "Sir Lancelot" (no quotes) under Breads, Grains, & Grain Blends.

Sorry for the confusion.


Offline canadave

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Re:commercial dough making
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2004, 01:39:41 AM »
The only problem with that is that for us poor souls up here in Canada, it's really expensive to order anything from those guys.  I checked awhile ago (thinking along the same lines as you all with the hi-gluten flour).  They wrote me back and said that the shipping rates up here would be something like $30, above and beyond the cost of the flour :(

Dave


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Re:commercial dough making
« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2004, 07:32:58 AM »
You can also try contacting a local bakery and ask if you can order a 50# sack of high-gluten flour.  :-\

Offline DKM

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Re:commercial dough making
« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2004, 10:18:53 AM »
I just finished making a batch of dough in our 20 quart mixer.(used high gluten flour)..took a basic dough recipe and did it up. We are opting for the overnight rising in the walk in. We measured and made up some dough balls to  run through the roller.  Left the other 1/2 of the dough to rise in one large bin. Will  cut and measure those in  the am, and run them through the roller and cook one of each.

We have  recipes , differant methods, and several differant opinions on water temp. (hot or cold) when adding the yeast and whether to handle the dough before or after letting it rise?  Wanted an "expert" opinion. I put the yeast into warm water and then added it to the bowl.??? The dough was quite sticky, but added additional flour until it came away from the bowl...

the emerrill show sounded interesting....sorry i missed it...thanks

Have you done any more?

I found a recipe, but I will have to type it so it will take until his weekend to post if you still need it.

DKM
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kingofcash

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Re:commercial dough making
« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2004, 07:54:42 PM »
DKM..

We would appreciate it if you would post that recipe.

Thanks

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Re:commercial dough making
« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2004, 08:41:37 PM »
Basic Pizza dough

25 lbs Flour
4 oz yeast
4 oz Sugar
6 oz Salt
8 oz Oil
14 lb water (75 degrees F)


Add to the mixer in the following order

Water
Oil
Flour
Yeast
Sugar
Salt

Mix 9 minutes

Take out of the mixer and put in plastic container and place in cooler overnight.

The next morning weigh out the dough to its proper portion for each size (Sorry, no weights were given) and place on sheets, cover with plastic wrap and place back in cooler.  Dough is good for 24 hours from this point.

Try to take dough out of the cooler about 30 minutes to 1 hour before need to make the pizza.

-----------------------------------------------

Of course you may need to adjust to recipe to fit your own style and taste.
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Offline RoadPizza

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Re:commercial dough making
« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2004, 07:31:09 AM »
You don't need to add warm water to the yeast.  Some recipes allow you to actually spread the yeast on top of the dough as it's being handled by the mixer.

We have  recipes , differant methods, and several differant opinions on water temp. (hot or cold) when adding the yeast and whether to handle the dough before or after letting it rise?  Wanted an "expert" opinion. I put the yeast into warm water and then added it to the bowl.??? The dough was quite sticky, but added additional flour until it came away from the bowl...

Offline DKM

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Re:commercial dough making
« Reply #22 on: February 27, 2004, 03:14:00 PM »
DKM..

We would appreciate it if you would post that recipe.

Thanks

Have you had a chance to try anything yet?

DKM
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kingofcash

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Re:commercial dough making
« Reply #23 on: July 14, 2004, 06:42:40 PM »
DKM.........your recipe post has been most helpful.Thank you ! It has taken me a long while to commit to making dough because of the large quantities I would have to make. I have decided now is the time. I have made several batches and my goal is to make all of our mediums.

I cut your recipe in 1/2 to start. Put it in the walk-in overnight (12 hours) Punched it down , weighed it and rolled it into balls. (14 oz for 12" pizzas) I left them out to get to room temp and then stretched them to size.(i did use a rolling pin :-X )They are ok. but I want to improove on  them.

I would like the finished product to be a bit thicker and less tough. What can I do ?

ps. i liked the idea of adding more sugar to the recipe to brown the dough a bit. saw that posted somewhere on the site.

We love this website !!! Keep up the great work !!!

Thanks, kingofcash

Offline DKM

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Re:commercial dough making
« Reply #24 on: July 15, 2004, 01:57:18 PM »
I would like the finished product to be a bit thicker and less tough. What can I do ?

For less tough add more oil, for thicker it can be anything from increasing the dough to letting it proof after it is streched or rolled.

What I posted is a basic "pizza" dough recipe.  (BTW the flour should have at least 13% protien)

Little things can make a difference you are going to have to find what you like.

Some examples are:

1 place lets the dough rise at room temp for 2 hours then makes the balls and puts them in the cooler overnight.

Some places do use a dough sheeter.

Another requires the dough balls to be out at least 2 hours and to have rised again at least by half.

Have fun trying different things and ask any questions you need.  Now there are a lot of here who can answer them.

DKM

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