Author Topic: Newbie to Natural Starters  (Read 22995 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: Newbie to Natural Starters
« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2010, 08:30:58 PM »
Attached are 1 picture from day 5 before feeding.  I am going to transfer to a bigger container.  Is this the right thing to do?
The starter with rye flour and water is more active than the rye flour, wine and water. 
The second picture I have included are the kinds of flour I could change over to, when the starter is active enough.
With the whole wheat flour I just purchased today, I am going to try to start another starter. 
My kitchen is getting so full of flours, ingredients and frozen dough to be tried out, I think I will soon have to move my other stuff out to be able to experiment more..lol  :-D
The flours pictured here which I might add are, high-gluten, gluten, King Arthur AP, Semolina, and Caputo.   
Do you know what the plain gluten is for?  Does it add more gluten to regular AP flour?

Thanks,

Norma
« Last Edit: January 15, 2010, 08:33:02 PM by norma427 »
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Infoodel

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Re: Newbie to Natural Starters
« Reply #26 on: January 15, 2010, 09:07:52 PM »
Hey Norma
From what I can make out, the starters are looking good and healthy!

I think if they are rising reliably now, you can put them on a 1:2:2 feed (or even 1:3:3) and put them in a smaller container (in other words you can discard/use the excess).

If the bag labelled 'gluten' is indeed vital wheat gluten as you suspect, then yes you can add it to AP flour - but why bother when you have high gluten flour already? Also King Arthur AP is probably the strongest of any AP flour in the US as it is milled from hard red winter wheat (not a mix of soft and hard wheats like many other APs).

Cheers,

Toby

Offline norma427

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Re: Newbie to Natural Starters
« Reply #27 on: January 15, 2010, 09:24:46 PM »
Toby,

Thank you for the additional information and I will leap to the next step and put them on a 1:2:2 feed to see what happens.
Will post when I see what happens.

Thanks for your help!  :)

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Newbie to Natural Starters
« Reply #28 on: January 16, 2010, 08:43:45 AM »
Toby,

Here is the picture of the divided starter that was fed 1:2:2 last evening.  This morning it looks like it is doing well and really increasing in volume.  When do I start to add the white flour?  Do you think it is ready or should I now go to the 1:3:3 feeding?
The other container is the wheat flour starter that was started last evening.  It looks like there are bubbles in it by this morning.  Am getting excited this whole starter thing might work.
Wheat starter or left..rye starter on right

Thanks for your help,

Norma

Here is the one link that was posted before about starting you own starter:

Are you expecting to find a detailed and long list of steps that have to be observed and followed with impeccable precision? Get ready for an unpleasant surprise:

Preparing a sourdough culture is very easy. And what you need for this you usually have at hand in your house, it is only water and flour.
   
Flour and water are mixed in the same proportion with the sourdough starter, the storage leaven and left to rest in a warm place.  This allows the the micro organisms which are present in the flour and air to multiply and they begin to settle in the ďnew terrainĒ of flour and water.  The dough begins to become acidic.


I found this article quite helpful if anyone is interested in trying their own starter.

Norma

Flour + Water = Starter

July 13 2007 at 03:35 pm

Ah, summerÖ corn on the cob, lazy reading in the hammock, andÖ sourdough starter, of course!

Mature sourdough starter

Iíve been taking advantage of this warm weather to try raising some starters from scratch. I had done it before in a week-long class (in fact, thatís the starter Iíve been using for months), but we were able to keep our cultures at a constant 80 degrees F, and we added extra malt to jump-start the process. I wanted to see how it worked with just flour and water, in the warm but fluctuating room temperatures of my non-air-conditioned house in these beautiful early summer weeks in northern California.

Success! Raising a starter seems to be something that is perceived as mysterious, complicated, or hard. But in my experience, itís not; it just requires attention and patience.

I did this a couple of times, once with rye and once with whole wheat flour. Both worked, but the rye worked better, so thatís the one Iím summarizing. (Note: this ends up as a white starter. The rye is just in the beginning, to get things going.)

Ready to try it?

Sourdough Starter from Scratch

Ingredients:

    * White flour (bread or all-purpose), preferably one that contains malted barley flour. Most white flours do, but some do not, especially if they are organic. Check the label.
    * Rye flour.
    * Water. I use bottled (not distilled) water because I donít want the chlorine in tap water, and I do want the minerals that are removed by my water softener. If your tap water is not softened, you could let some sit out for a few hours to allow the chlorine to dissipate. All the water should be at about 85F; the yeast you want to nurture likes warmish water. I heat a small amount of water in the microwave and mix it with room temperature water, checking it with an instant-read thermometer. If you donít have one, the water should feel about neutral to the touch.

Equipment:

    * A 1-quart or larger container with a lid, preferably transparent and with straight vertical sides (this makes it easier to gauge the activity of the culture).
    * A kitchen scale. If you donít have one, get one. In the meantime, Iíll give the approximate volume measurements. But just this once; really, weigh your ingredients! (I never said I wasnít opinionated.)
    * An instant-read thermometer is useful for checking water temperature.
    * A rubber spatula or plastic dough scraper.
    * Transparent tape.
    * A way to heat water.
    * A warm(ish) place, preferably around 80F. The room I used fluctuated from low 70ís to mid 80ís. A room thermometer is helpful.

General process:

    * The stuff youíre growing is a ďcultureĒ before it is mature and stable enough to bake with, at which point it becomes a ďstarter.Ē
    * The volume measurements Iíve given do not corresponding exactly to the weight measurements, but the proportions are the same. Donít mix weight and volume measurements.
    * You will initially leave the culture alone for 24 hours, after which you will ďfeedĒ it at 12-hour intervals; choose your starting time accordingly. I arbitrarily assume youíre starting in the morning.
    * Feeding involves removing and discarding a portion of the culture, and adding water and flour to what remains: first mix the culture and water together thoroughly, then add the flour and mix until thoroughly blended.
    * Before you begin, itís helpful to mark the weight of the container on the bottom with a Sharpie, or note it elsewhere. Then when itís time to discard some of the culture, you can just keep taking some out and weighing the container until you know that the remaining culture is the right amount. I do not wash my container between every feeding.
    * Contrary to a somewhat popular belief, it is OK to use a stainless steel spoon for mixing.
    * After mixing, use a spatula or dough scraper to squeegee the sides of the container so theyíre nice and clean. This helps you see how much the culture has risen, and keeps things tidy.
    * When youíre done mixing, smooth the top of the culture flat as much as possible. Place a piece of tape running straight up the outside of the container, and mark the level of the culture. This is how you will know how much it has risen.
    * Replace the container lid when youíre done mixing. If itís a screw on lid or mason-jar type, you may want to leave it a little loose to give accumulated gas an escape route. If it is a plastic snap-on lid, you can snap it tight; the lid will pop off if the pressure inside gets too high.

Day 1 AM:

    * Make sure your container is clean, well-rinsed, and dry.
    * Mix 100 g water, 50 g rye flour, and 50 g white flour (or 1/2 c. water and 3/8 c. of each flour.)
    * Leave the culture in its warm spot for 24 hours.

Day 2 AM:

    * Hopefully you will see signs of life. Has the culture risen a little? Are there any bubbles in it, even one or two? (These are sometimes best seen by picking it up and looking at it through the bottom of the container.)

      Bubbles in culture after 12 hours
    * It is possible that you will see a large rise (50% or more) at this point. Donít be fooled; this does not mean youíve birthed a miracle baby. In the initial stages of a culture, a type of bacteria called leuconostoc may predominate; it produces a lot of gas and causes the rapid rise. This bacteria is not desirable, but not harmful either, and it will eventually die out as the beneficial critters settle in and the culture becomes more acidic. You may also notice that the culture has a rather unpleasant odor; donít worry, this too shall pass.
    * (If you see absolutely no sign of life whatsoever, I suggest leaving it alone for another 12 hours before proceeding. If there is still nothing, why not forge ahead anyway and see what happens?)
    * Discard all but 75 g of the culture. Feed this with 75 g water, 25 g rye flour, and 50 g white flour (1/3 c. starter, 1/3 c. water, 5 teaspoons rye flour, and 1/3 c. white flour).
    * Set it back in its warm spot for 12 hours.

Day 2 PM:

    * You may see signs of activity, but the culture may be either more or less lively than what you saw this morning. Anything from a single bubble to a 100% rise is good.

      Sourdough culture at 36 hours
    * Again, feed 75 g of culture with 75 g water, 25 g rye flour, and 50 g white flour, and return it to the warm spot.

Day 3 AM:

    * Your culture may appear dead, but itís probably not. Donít worry, just go ahead and feed as before.

Day 3 PM and every 12 hours thereafter:

    * Continue to feed as youíve been doing. At some point things should pick up steam, and you will notice that the culture gets a little more vigorous with each feeding.
    * When the culture at least doubles itself in 12 hours and is looking nice and bubbly, start feeding with only white flour (75 g culture / 75 g water / 75 g flour). This happened for me around the end of Day 4.

      Sourdough culture at 4 days
    * After about 5 Ė 7 days, hopefully you will observe that the culture can double itself in 8 hours or less, smells pleasantly sour, and is full of bubbles. Congratulations, you have raised a 100% hydration starter thatís ready to bake with! If youíre looking for a recipe, how about this Norwich Sourdough?

      Norwich sourdough
    * At this point you can also start decreasing the amount of culture in relation to the feeding flour and water, and use room-temperature instead of 85-degree water. You have been mixing 1:1:1 culture:water:flour at each feeding. Now try 1:2:2 and see if the starter can still double in 8 hours or less.
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Infoodel

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Re: Newbie to Natural Starters
« Reply #29 on: January 16, 2010, 09:23:39 AM »
Wow congratulations Norma. You have yourself a living, breathing (well maybe not breathing...but fermenting anyway!) starter culture!
Yes you can certainly go ahead and start transitioning to a white flour - but I would take it gradually over a number of feeds. If the starter starts smelling weird - don't try adding more white flour to the feeds but rather let it stabilise first before continuing. That said, I doubt you will have the same trouble I had recently with the transition.

If you want to keep the rye, you can always split the starter and continue maintaining a separate rye starter (1:3:3 or whatever ratio you feel comfortable with) while transitioning the other.
For the transitional stage, I'd advise against using a 1:3:3 ratio. Keep it at 1:2:2 or even 1:1:1 and wait until you have the starter stabilised again before dropping back down to 1:3:3.

I've been running an experiment with refrigerating the 100% hydration rye starter - and it seems fine. It's something you may want to consider if starters start running your daily schedule (as they do mine often!) and you don't need the starter on a daily basis.

Cheers,
Toby
« Last Edit: January 16, 2010, 09:26:50 AM by Infoodel »

Offline norma427

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Re: Newbie to Natural Starters
« Reply #30 on: January 16, 2010, 10:27:15 AM »
Toby,

I feel the same way..wow..I guess there are now living beasties in my kitchen.  ;D Thank you very much for continuing to help me though this process.   :)
I never thought of also keeping a rye starter, so thanks for the idea!
I will follow your instructions and start adding some white flour.  I will keep an eye on it or them..lol
As for refrigerating the starters, what is the procedure for that?  Can they stay well in the fridge?
I sure wonít be using the starters everyday, so any information would be helpful.
Hopefully the wheat starter will do well.

Thanks,

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Infoodel

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Re: Newbie to Natural Starters
« Reply #31 on: January 16, 2010, 11:02:10 AM »
Toby,

I feel the same way..wow..I guess there are now living beasties in my kitchen.  ;D Thank you very much for continuing to help me though this process.   :)
I never thought of also keeping a rye starter, so thanks for the idea!
I will follow your instructions and start adding some white flour.  I will keep an eye on it or them..lol
As for refrigerating the starters, what is the procedure for that?  Can they stay well in the fridge?
I sure wonít be using the starters everyday, so any information would be helpful.
Hopefully the wheat starter will do well.

Thanks,

Norma
The typical procedure is to feed the starter (taking whatever portion you need for baking, dough etc.) - let the fed starter sit for an hour or so before returning to the refrigerator. However with my recent rye experiment, I deliberately put the starter straight back in the 'fridge after feeding and it was fine.
People have been known to leave their starter in the fridge for months on end (on the understanding that an extra refresh might be required when it comes to taking it out of the fridge). I'd probably stick to weekly feeds if possible.
Cheers,

Toby
« Last Edit: January 16, 2010, 11:05:20 AM by Infoodel »

Offline norma427

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Re: Newbie to Natural Starters
« Reply #32 on: January 16, 2010, 11:10:13 AM »
The typical procedure is to feed the starter (taking whatever portion you need for baking, dough etc.) - let the fed starter sit for an hour or so before returning to the refrigerator. However with my recent rye experiment, I deliberately put the starter straight back in the 'fridge after feeding and it was fine.
People have been known to leave their starter in the fridge for months on end (on the understanding that an extra refresh might be required when it comes to taking it out of the fridge). I'd probably stick to weekly feeds if possible.
Cheers,

Toby

Toby,

Thanks for the additional information!  Let me know how your experimenting are going.  :)  It is always good to hear how other people are doing with what kind of experiments they are doing.  It really help all of us understand how to go about doing something.
I will keep you updated on what is going on with the starters.

Thanks,
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Newbie to Natural Starters
« Reply #33 on: January 16, 2010, 10:38:29 PM »
These are the starters as they look tonight.  The one rye was fed with high-gluten this morning.  It has since tripled in size.  The next rye was fed with Caputo this morning and has more than doubled in size.  I did just feed the rye and let it be rye this morning.  This was Toby's idea.  Thanks!  :)  The wine with flour is expanding, also.  I had started the whole wheat last night and it will get the second feeding tonight.  I still have another rye.  I don't know what I am going to do with all these starters, but they look and smell healthy.  I plan on feeding the Caputo and the high-gluten..I guess until they turn into a white starter.  I found the containers at the Dollar Tree store..for a buck they are working great!

This is a picture of how they looked, tonight.

Norma
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Offline UnConundrum

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Re: Newbie to Natural Starters
« Reply #34 on: January 17, 2010, 08:09:50 AM »
LOL, Norma, I think you have an addiction.  Someone is going to have to take your starters away from you.   :-D

Offline norma427

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Re: Newbie to Natural Starters
« Reply #35 on: January 17, 2010, 08:14:33 AM »
LOL, Norma, I think you have an addiction.  Someone is going to have to take your starters away from you.   :-D

Warren,

This starter thing is getting interesting..lol  I just couldn't resist playing around with different ones.   :-D  Hopefully soon, I will get to try one on a pizza or bread.

Thanks,

Norma
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Infoodel

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Re: Newbie to Natural Starters
« Reply #36 on: January 17, 2010, 09:15:49 AM »
These are the starters as they look tonight.  The one rye was fed with high-gluten this morning.  It has since tripled in size.  The next rye was fed with Caputo this morning and has more than doubled in size.  I did just feed the rye and let it be rye this morning.  This was Toby's idea.  Thanks!  :)  The wine with flour is expanding, also.  I had started the whole wheat last night and it will get the second feeding tonight.  I still have another rye.  I don't know what I am going to do with all these starters, but they look and smell healthy.  I plan on feeding the Caputo and the high-gluten..I guess until they turn into a white starter.  I found the containers at the Dollar Tree store..for a buck they are working great!

This is a picture of how they looked, tonight.

Norma
:o  Damn! Norma - they're taking over. ;D
Seriously though - that's a fine looking selection of starters. Looking forward to seeing the baked goods.
Happy Baking!
Toby


Offline norma427

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Re: Newbie to Natural Starters
« Reply #37 on: January 17, 2010, 11:22:16 AM »
:o  Damn! Norma - they're taking over. ;D
Seriously though - that's a fine looking selection of starters. Looking forward to seeing the baked goods.
Happy Baking!
Toby



Toby,

I am satisfied with the starters.  Thanks for taking me thought the process.  :)  Will post with pictures when I try either pizza or bread.

Thanks,
Norma
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Offline ninapizza23

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Re: Newbie to Natural Starters
« Reply #38 on: January 17, 2010, 12:28:48 PM »
Norma427,
I see the  starters are keeping you very busy, how do they smell? Do they have a special aroma? Don't be in a rush to try them out,  according to what Marco said it takes about a month for the starter to be ready.

Offline norma427

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Re: Newbie to Natural Starters
« Reply #39 on: January 17, 2010, 01:04:35 PM »
Norma427,
I see the  starters are keeping you very busy, how do they smell? Do they have a special aroma? Don't be in a rush to try them out,  according to what Marco said it takes about a month for the starter to be ready.

ninapizza23,

They aren't really keeping me busy..just feed and let go until the next day..All the different ones each have a different aroma.  They all smell like alcohol, but are all different.  I am going to try some out soon because I have so many.  I still will have some to try in about a month if the starters are okay.

Thanks for giving the advise as what Marco had to say,

Norma
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Infoodel

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Re: Newbie to Natural Starters
« Reply #40 on: January 17, 2010, 02:04:39 PM »
Norma427,
I see the  starters are keeping you very busy, how do they smell? Do they have a special aroma? Don't be in a rush to try them out,  according to what Marco said it takes about a month for the starter to be ready.

With all due respect to Marco, you can use you starter anytime it stabilises (5 or 6 days for a rye starter, longer if you then transition to white). Flavours and the balance of organisms are different in an older, more mature starter to say a fresh one. However both will still raise and make great bread/pizza.
Taking Marco's advice in a different context - since it is certainly true that your starter character will change over the first month or so.  For a commercial pizzeria to rely on a starter to raise large quantities of dough on a fairly tight schedule, it makes sense to be absolutely sure your starter is stable before opening.

Toby


Offline norma427

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Re: Newbie to Natural Starters
« Reply #41 on: January 17, 2010, 03:09:21 PM »
With all due respect to Marco, you can use you starter anytime it stabilises (5 or 6 days for a rye starter, longer if you then transition to white). Flavours and the balance of organisms are different in an older, more mature starter to say a fresh one. However both will still raise and make great bread/pizza.
Taking Marco's advice in a different context - since it is certainly true that your starter character will change over the first month or so.  For a commercial pizzeria to rely on a starter to raise large quantities of dough on a fairly tight schedule, it makes sense to be absolutely sure your starter is stable before opening.

Toby




Toby,

Thank you for the additional information.  :)  I can see how an older starter will change over time.  Hopefully I will be able to keep these starters and experiment.  If not, I can start over again with all the help you have given me.  :)

Thanks,

Norma

ninapizza23,

I wanted to ask you where you found the reference to what Marco said about using a starter that is more mature.  Did you find it here on the forum or did you find it elsewhere? 
I also wanted to ask you one more question.  Do you have experience with starters, and if you do, what kind of starters have you tried in the past or present?  I am interested in the different aromas like you talk about and if you can tell by smelling the starter, how well it would do when making pizza, foccacia, or bread.

Thanks,  :)

Norma

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Offline ninapizza23

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Re: Newbie to Natural Starters
« Reply #42 on: January 17, 2010, 07:21:22 PM »
Norma427,
I read Marco's remark on the starter in another forum but he has not been active for a while.                   I tried a starter that was brought to me 2 years ago from Venice  when the guest that I have came for the first time in NY. Since I did not have a woodburning oven I did not really keep up with it. If I get to finish my oven by the time he comes back I will try again. I do not really have lots of experience with these starters but if a member does not come up with a sample I will eventually try to make my own or buy it from KA.
In the old days, my mother used to make bread without yeast but she used leavened dough from the day before which I heard that Bianco in Phoenix uses also. Does yours smell acid still?

Infoodel

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Re: Newbie to Natural Starters
« Reply #43 on: January 17, 2010, 07:36:30 PM »
Norma,
One thing I'm sure you'll discover when you start making dough with starter is how important hydration, temperature, feed ratio etc. are in the flavours and aromas that you will get from your starters.
There are lots of 'rules of thumb' but it's kind of hard to summarize it all with universal rules which apply equally to all starters. It's best to observe each one closely (keep notes if you like) and learn how it behaves.
You should notice as you transition the rye to white (wheat) how the spicy/winey aroma from the rye starter changes to a ?grassier?(imo) aroma. You'll also start to notice how the smell changes over the course of one feeding cycle (different acidic notes followed by a yeasty smell that ultimately leads to an alcoholic whiff when over-fermented)

Regarding Marco,  I hope I didn't come across as overly dismissive about his advice. However I do think the context of his comments are important. He uses 'heritage' cultures (crisceto is his particular favourite?) and (if I recall correctly) does not recommend 'DIY' starters. To this end he has devoted much time in researching how to use those specific cultures for making pizza napoletana as authentically as possible. Due to the variable nature of starter cultures (different balances and species of bacteria and yeasts), I guess part of the rationale in using specific cultures has to do with limiting your parameters to ensure results which can translate from one pizzeria to the next.

Cheers,

Toby

« Last Edit: January 17, 2010, 07:53:04 PM by Infoodel »

Offline BurntFingers

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Re: Newbie to Natural Starters
« Reply #44 on: January 17, 2010, 07:44:56 PM »
I have two packets of Lalvin Bourgovin RC 212, yeast that I use in wine making.   Each is 5g. net.  Saccharomyces Cerevisiae B.I.V.B.  What do you think would happen if I tried to use it instead of IDY  or to make a starter?

Offline norma427

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Re: Newbie to Natural Starters
« Reply #45 on: January 17, 2010, 08:10:13 PM »
ninapizza23,

Thank you for answering my questions.  I donít think you need a wood burning oven to try to use natural starters.  That is my opinion.  I donít have a wood fired oven.  I only have a standard oven here at home and a Bakerís Pride double deck GP-61 at market, that is propane gas.  I am just going to experiment with the starters here at home to get a feel for what kind of taste I can achieve in pizzas and bread making.  If eventually I find out more about starters and how they behave, then I will try some at market. 
It isnít really that hard to make your own starter.  If you follow the directions Toby gave me or click on one of the links Mike gave me, you can get started very easily.  If you make a mistake, you can just start all over, again.  It is only the cost of flour and water.  I used triple filtered water.  The directions I used are right here, if you want to try your own. 
The leavened dough sounds interesting, but I have to take one step at a time.  I am fairly new to making pizzas so I have to learn.

Thanks,
Norma

Toby,

I will take your advise and take notes.  I will have to learn all what you are teaching me about hydration, feed ratios, and flavors and aromas.  Although each of my starters have a different smell, I will learn from all of this.  I also read about Marco and his heritage cultures and crisceto maybe being his favorite.  I guess all this was passed down from generation to generation.  And yes, I do believe he spent a lot of time researching all of this.

Thank you for taking the time to explain more about starters,

Norma

BurntFingers,

I will let someone more familiar with starters answer your questions.  That sounds like an interesting idea, though.

Thanks,
Norma
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Offline ninapizza23

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Re: Newbie to Natural Starters
« Reply #46 on: January 17, 2010, 09:21:44 PM »
Norma427,
I know I don't need a wood burning oven to try the starter but I like the flavor from the wood. I am hooked on Bianco's pizza and sandwiches done in their wood burning oven to the point that I don't mind waiting 3 1/2 hrs to get in. My favorite is biancoverde. Norma could you please tell me how you search by image? Do you use Tin-eye? Norma,
have you ever noticed the hydroponic unit I built to grow basil without soil?
« Last Edit: January 17, 2010, 09:30:40 PM by ninapizza23 »

Offline norma427

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Re: Newbie to Natural Starters
« Reply #47 on: January 17, 2010, 09:32:40 PM »
ninapizza23,

Wow, that is a long wait.  :o  Don't think I would wait that long.  Since I haven't ever experienced Bianco's pizza, I had no idea what it tastes like.  When I go to New York, I have just tried different NY Style pizzas, never in a wood fired oven.  The next time I go to New York, I am going to experience a pizza made in a wood fired oven.
I plan on coming to New York the end of February if the weather isn't bad and if time will allow me to. 
I search by Google.  Just go to Google and type in images, then type in what you are looking for.  It will come up with all the images of what you are looking for. 
I see your avatar, but I didn't realize what it was.  How to you grow your basil? ( have you ever noticed the hydroponic unit I built to grow basil without soil?)
I buy fresh basil each week at our local grocery store.  It is live with roots and grown all natural..aquaponically grown pesticide free.  For two bunches it is only 1.59.

Norma
« Last Edit: January 17, 2010, 09:37:30 PM by norma427 »
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Offline ninapizza23

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Re: Newbie to Natural Starters
« Reply #48 on: January 17, 2010, 10:00:15 PM »
Norma427,
thanks for the info. Let me warn you Not all pizzas cooked in a wood burning oven are great like Bianco's. There are a few ovens in NY and Long Island that are used like fiireplaces, not enough fire and the dough is not hydrated properly . I challenged a pizzeria in Long Island where when I saw the fire I told the pizzaiolo it was about 400 degrees, so I put my arm in the oven to prove to him. The owner told me that if the temp was 800 that the pizza would burn, I told him he does not know how to use the oven or make the proper dough, they use it to fool customers.  I went to a pizzeria in Manhattan where they have authentic neapolitan oven and dough, but let me tell you I couldn't eat a slice, it was very gummy for my taste. I waisted $42 with trip. Did you notice my hydroponic unit where you can grow basil and other herbs with just water and nutrients, not soil.  The basil grows like a giant! Last year I tried lettuce leaf basil. You can make the unit you see with 1" pvc pipe and water bottles upside down. You,also need a small circulating pump, a timer and a container with water, of course nutrients, when you keep the right ph and TDS you will have lots of basil and fresh. When I used to buy basiil it came with sand!
« Last Edit: January 17, 2010, 10:11:54 PM by ninapizza23 »

Offline norma427

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Re: Newbie to Natural Starters
« Reply #49 on: January 17, 2010, 10:11:10 PM »
ninapizza23,

Your welcome..I know by the reviews that not all wood fire oven are the same or the pizzas produced in them.  I can also see how places can have a bad night and another day their pizzas can be great.  I have read the reviews and other people on this forum have also commented that the quality of the pizza can vary from time to time. 
Wow 42.00 for a pizza is way too much for me. 
As I said in my last post, I did notice your avatar, but didn't really think about it.  Your hydroponic unit sounds interesting.  I guess that is how they grow the basil I buy. I really don't know.

Norma

Always working and looking for new information!


 

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