Author Topic: 8-Day Dough  (Read 9224 times)

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Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: 8-Day Dough
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2010, 04:44:44 PM »
If you used 385 grams of dough to make a 15" pizza, that is around 3 ounces more than a 302 gram dough ball for a 14" pizza. That shouldn't rule out a 15" size. Maybe I am missing something that isn't showing up in the numbers, so please let me know if my numbers are wrong.




Peter, yes same numbers I got from calculator with 2% residue. No the reason I said "Ah ha!" was your saying
Quote
"it was a combination of low dough ball size (302 grams), which leads to faster cooling, and the small amount of yeast that explained the dough's longevity."
I then agreed with your statement that the smaller ball size aids in the doughs longevity as they cool fast. Now kick that up to 385g, or even 350g, (still a notable difference from 302s) and I was attributing this to the possible premature death of the last doughs. I was agreeing with you that these balls were too big to cool fast as I noticed they blew up in the containers too fast, my last that went 6-7 days were de-gassed in day 4 actually, so that's what I meant. This also answers your question GB about them rising, they rose too well in the containers, just not when they were cooked, lol.

BUT I must say 350gs is a much thinner dough when stretched to 15" than what the 12" 235g balls produced. Despite any thickness factors told by a calculator. (No offense to the calculator)

Maybe you'd also call 350 or 385gs balls "smaller" as well though? If you do I can say my experience is they act much differently in the fridge than a 302, indeed. Either way I'm with Mike in his 375g for a 14", as I used a 385 for a 15", though his dough as you can see is not as thin he's closer. Stretching 350 to 15" without a rolling pin is quite an accomplishment, at least for a 7 day old dough. I did the 350 once, Mike nailed it's making it to 15" on the head with his humorous response here.
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7761.msg84033.html#msg84033
It was a great pie though, see how thin and all, but not 15". It was when I then kicked it up to 385g to get safely to or over 15" that all hell broke lose. So my 350's were better in longevity than the 385s seemingly.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2010, 05:06:30 PM by NY pizzastriver »
"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1


Offline Essen1

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Re: 8-Day Dough
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2010, 07:17:37 PM »
Jim,

I don't think you'll get a 302 gr dough ball up to a size of 15" without making some modifications to your dough formula. But then again, nothing seems impossible in the world of pizza making (see my controversial and unconventional attempts at making preferments in other threads  ;D)

Anyway, as you can see here http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8093.msg69553.html#msg69553 I have used 325 gr for a 14" pie and if I recall correctly, I could have stretched them even further. Just look at the rim and you'll see how much room, or dough if you will, was left to play with. But then again, that dough contained oil and sugar whereas yours doesn't.

Mike

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Offline BrickStoneOven

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Re: 8-Day Dough
« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2010, 12:35:51 PM »
Essen1 how much cheese in oz. would you say you used on the pie at reply 15 and what size was it?

Offline Glutenboy

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Re: 8-Day Dough
« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2010, 12:55:12 PM »
My 304-6 gram dougball using my formula (which NYPizzastriver also uses) seems to max out at 14" elasticitywise.  Especially when I use All Trumps, it's not the kind of dough that windowpanes to infinity.  Despite that fact, the crust is not overly heavy.  It is light, crisp and chewy with a pretty good ability to support toppings for being so thin, as well as excellent foldability.  I guess my point is that 14" is the choice made naturally by the dough, not a size standard set for it by me.  That having been said, a bit of experimentation with doughballs of different weights rather than a calculator might better yield a pie of any given size which retains the crust character you want.  I am very scientific in my approach.  I weigh and track ingredients and want to know the reasons things happen so I can replicate, predict and control them.  Still I find many times that the predictions are inexplicably off, and I end up getting what I want by experimenting and adjusting based on the results.
Quote under my pic excludes Little Caesar's.

Offline Essen1

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Re: 8-Day Dough
« Reply #24 on: January 15, 2010, 03:27:48 PM »
BrickStoneOven,

The pie size was 14" on a 16" pan.

I don't know how much cheese I used or what the weight was but if I had to guesstimate, I'd say maybe around 200 gr. I usually just grab a handful and spread it out evenly over the pizza.
Mike

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Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: 8-Day Dough
« Reply #25 on: January 23, 2010, 07:24:20 PM »
My 304-6 gram dougball using my formula (which NYPizzastriver also uses) seems to max out at 14" elasticitywise.  Especially when I use All Trumps, it's not the kind of dough that windowpanes to infinity. 

Hey GB, how are ya. Well I'm back to dough making tonight, 1st time in weeks, and here's what I get for a 15" before I add the 10% I usually added for the 12".

Flour (100%):    440.53 g  |  15.54 oz | 0.97 lbs
Water (61.05%):    268.94 g  |  9.49 oz | 0.59 lbs
IDY (0.19817%):    0.87 g | 0.03 oz | 0 lbs | 0.29 tsp | 0.1 tbsp
Salt (2.5%):    11.01 g | 0.39 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.97 tsp | 0.66 tbsp
Total (163.74817%):   721.36 g | 25.44 oz | 1.59 lbs | TF = 0.071994
Single Ball:   360.68 g | 12.72 oz | 0.8 lbs

residue 1.5%

Are we using the same % s? I'm going to trust the calculator and make 2 of these as it states. I'll let ya know if I can get it to 15", I'm also going to freeze them for 15 minutes before they go in the fridge to help eradicate the newly discovered "ball too big to cool fast enough" factor.

Peace!
« Last Edit: January 23, 2010, 07:26:36 PM by NY pizzastriver »
"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1

Offline Glutenboy

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Re: 8-Day Dough
« Reply #26 on: January 23, 2010, 07:48:55 PM »
Yeah, we're in the same ballpark on everything.  Any percentage variations are minor, but the thing is that in my experience every flour is different as far as hydration capacity.  If you're not using the All-Trumps, it's gonna change the equation and then, if the flour is a new one, you're gonna have to feel your way a bit to achieve the consistency you want.  The yeast weights for me  - at the amounts we use - are table conversions from volume measurements so I'm sure there's some variation there.  To be as precise as I can for you, I use 1140 grams of All-Trumps to a measured .75 teaspoons of SAF instant dry yeast.  You can scale from there.  My hydration is 61.05632% but, again, I've been known to adjust for consistency while mixing.  My salt content is 2.45614% measured by weight.  Keep me posted, my friend.  I can't wait to hear about and see the results.  :chef:
Quote under my pic excludes Little Caesar's.

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: 8-Day Dough
« Reply #27 on: January 23, 2010, 07:51:30 PM »
Ah, funny you mention the flour. See what I just said here...
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,576.msg88244.html#msg88244

I think I am going through an "00" learning curve of sorts.

Also correction, the above was obviously for 2 15s, not 1.

As far as yeast goes I have a standard digital scale, it goes from 1 gram to 2, so I eyeball the yeast in measuring spoons. .29tsp is a heaping 1/4 tsp. .33tsp, well it's the same, lol.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2010, 07:55:08 PM by NY pizzastriver »
"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: 8-Day Dough
« Reply #28 on: January 23, 2010, 08:17:55 PM »
I can't wait to hear about and see the results.  :chef:

Maaan, lol. Ok so my formula was written and revised right next to each other on the same piece of paper. As a result, I used 290 gs of water for "kicked up" version, and 440 gs of flour. After it mixed for 5 minutes I went and looked, talk about stuck to the bowl! I just calculated it at 69% hydration on the dough calculator, the whole thing now resides in the trash!

Nice to be back to makin' pies again!

Round 2!
"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1

Offline Glutenboy

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Re: 8-Day Dough
« Reply #29 on: January 23, 2010, 08:22:40 PM »
Oh yeah, All-Trumps to 00 flour is like night to day.  As far as the formula for my dough, I don't know how applicable any of it will be.
Quote under my pic excludes Little Caesar's.


Offline widespreadpizza

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Re: 8-Day Dough
« Reply #30 on: January 23, 2010, 08:32:53 PM »
GB,  back when you started this thread,  I had just finished convicing my local bertuccis to sell me a bag of the unbleached unbromated all trumps,  so I decided to give your recipie a try.  I baked a couple of them up tonight in my WFO,  at medium temp.  They came out great, and browning was still going strong.  One of my favorite crusts for my oven is 50% caputo 50% all trumps aged in the fridge for a couple days,  but the 100% at is great too.  These dough balls went 10-11 days.  For commercial yeast,  the crust flavors were outstanding.  Excuse the slightly burned off grande,  as I had no fresh mozz on hand.  Anyhow,  thanks for the inspiration,  and rock on all trumps!  -marc
« Last Edit: January 23, 2010, 11:30:11 PM by widespreadpizza »

Offline Glutenboy

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Re: 8-Day Dough
« Reply #31 on: January 23, 2010, 10:37:46 PM »
Nice!  Any pics?
Quote under my pic excludes Little Caesar's.

Offline widespreadpizza

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Re: 8-Day Dough
« Reply #32 on: January 23, 2010, 11:32:53 PM »
GB,  they were supposed to be there the first time,  but my cardreader is freaking out for some reason.  I will post a couple that I took when I can......  -marc  here they are....
« Last Edit: January 24, 2010, 11:03:16 AM by widespreadpizza »

Offline Glutenboy

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Re: 8-Day Dough
« Reply #33 on: January 24, 2010, 01:41:56 AM »
Don't keep me waiting, Man.  Pizza is IMPORTANT!!! ;D
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Offline Glutenboy

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Re: 8-Day Dough
« Reply #34 on: January 24, 2010, 01:58:45 PM »
Oh yeah.  That's the stuff.   :chef:  Nice blistering.  And the heirloom tomatoes?  Excellent touch!
« Last Edit: January 24, 2010, 02:00:58 PM by Glutenboy »
Quote under my pic excludes Little Caesar's.

Offline widespreadpizza

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Re: 8-Day Dough
« Reply #35 on: January 26, 2010, 10:02:55 PM »
GB,  the last 3 dough balls form my previous post baked up tonight.  Two weeks old and still holding up.  These were cooked a little lower,  about 3 minutes.  Excellent crust flavors.  This is the type of dough to have in the fridge at all times I am thinking,  for when that craving strikes.  I must have used a little less yeast than you did or my fridge is colder maybe.  Just thought you might like to see the rest...  -marc

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: 8-Day Dough
« Reply #36 on: January 26, 2010, 10:18:27 PM »
Marc,

Those pizzas look great. Did you use the same dough ball weight and pizza size as Glutenboy specified?

Peter

Offline Glutenboy

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Re: 8-Day Dough
« Reply #37 on: January 26, 2010, 11:41:03 PM »
Marc -

Those are beautiful.  It's interesting how similar in character the crust is to mine, at least visually.  Same flour, similar extended refrigeration.  The flavor that develops is amazing, isn't it?
Quote under my pic excludes Little Caesar's.

Offline widespreadpizza

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Re: 8-Day Dough
« Reply #38 on: January 27, 2010, 05:44:40 PM »
Peter,  I did use the same bakers percents ,  but a little more dough in each ball,  325g.  They were roughly 14 inches when streched,  so very similar,  but not exact.  GB it is suprizing how similar the crusts do look,  but i guess thats a good thing.  Also the flavor is great,  and addicting during eating.  -marc

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: 8-Day Dough
« Reply #39 on: January 27, 2010, 06:11:31 PM »
Peter,  I did use the same bakers percents ,  but a little more dough in each ball,  325g.  They were roughly 14 inches when streched,  so very similar,  but not exact.  GB it is suprizing how similar the crusts do look,  but i guess thats a good thing.  Also the flavor is great,  and addicting during eating.  -marc

Marc,

I forgot to ask what bake temperature you used, and did you use your WFO?

Peter