Author Topic: Nearlypolitan  (Read 57849 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Infoodel

  • Guest
Re: Nearlypolitan
« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2010, 02:21:05 PM »
Heh thanks Matt.
Flavour was a little sourer in the second batch than I wanted it which was probably due to a forced 'rushed' proofing at >80F...also made the dough a little harder to handle.
I should have taken pics of the pizza I goofed yesterday. Charcoal Picante with extra char. :P
« Last Edit: January 17, 2010, 02:25:08 PM by Infoodel »


Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24232
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Nearlypolitan
« Reply #26 on: January 17, 2010, 03:17:56 PM »
Toby,

Those pictures look amazing!  ;D  Wish I could be there to taste a slice!

Thanks for sharing the pictures,

Norma

scott123

  • Guest
Re: Nearlypolitan
« Reply #27 on: January 18, 2010, 05:21:39 AM »
The next time you make a pie, is there any chance you could post a photo of the bottom of the crust?

brayshaw

  • Guest
Re: Nearlypolitan
« Reply #28 on: January 18, 2010, 05:31:08 AM »
They look so nice Toby! Very impressive!
I see you are from the UK too, where are you based? Sussex here.

Brayshaw

Infoodel

  • Guest
Re: Nearlypolitan
« Reply #29 on: January 18, 2010, 08:43:03 AM »
@Scott Fortunately I still had a slice in the fridge (see below). Some were not as charred as that because of my impatience to put another pie shortly after the last (that and a minor mishap with a certain salami piccante pie...!)

@Brayshaw West country here.

scott123

  • Guest
Re: Nearlypolitan
« Reply #30 on: January 18, 2010, 10:58:26 AM »
Toby, thanks. LOLed at the title of the jpg.

One more question- could you describe the stone you're using?

Infoodel

  • Guest
Re: Nearlypolitan
« Reply #31 on: January 18, 2010, 01:38:41 PM »
Toby, thanks. LOLed at the title of the jpg.

One more question- could you describe the stone you're using?

Sure, it's a relatively cheap 15" round pizza stone (you can find them online or even some large dept. stores - maybe even W@!m*rt). It rests on a larger (circular) pizza tray to make lifting and moving easier.

Toby

Offline pizzablogger

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1334
  • Location: Baltimore
Re: Nearlypolitan
« Reply #32 on: January 18, 2010, 01:57:15 PM »
Toby, you mentioned you do not have an infrared thermometer, but do you have a more standard oven thermometer? I'd be extremely interested to hear what kind of heat your broiler is throwing off.

Personally, I have a laser gun, but continually opening the oven door to get a reading directly from the stone, or other part of the oven is a good way to lose heat.....and I'm not sure how accurate shooting through the thick glass of my oven is.

I have found a surface reading thermometer placed on a side of my stone, in addition to two hanging thermometers placed above the pizza, allows me to view the temp through the glass quite easily.

http://www.amazon.com/Maverick-Industries-ST-01-OvenChek-Thermometer/dp/B0009XBILS/?tag=pizzamaking-20

http://www.amazon.com/Component-Design-Inc-EOT1-Thermometer/dp/B000HHJ0FC/?tag=pizzamaking-20

My broiler flames at the same max temp as my oven (550°F) and I have yet to find a way to set up my oven to generate that degree of leopard spotting on my pizzas. In addition, I cannot fire my broiler at the same time the oven is on, so I have to cook on the stone, turn off the oven and turn on the broiler...which takes a full minute to kick on. My pies are so close to the broiler while finishing that it nearly touches the flame....but it does not get hot enough to really finish the top of the crust like I want it.

I'll keep tinkering around with different set ups, but any ideas? My wife is NOT down with the self-cleaning cycle, but is down with a WFO when we get a yard.

Toby, the Brussel Sprout Pancetta pie looks delightful! --K
"It's Baltimore, gentlemen, the gods will not save you." --Burrell

Infoodel

  • Guest
Re: Nearlypolitan
« Reply #33 on: January 18, 2010, 02:19:54 PM »
Hey K,

I do have a standard oven thermometer - but I'm not sure how to use it to read the broiler element temperature. I suppose at least I could take the stone temperature. Just a bit worried about frying it while it sits under the broiler :P

As for broiler and oven being on at the same time - I have the same thing with my oven. The regular oven heat is only being used initially to heat the stone - after that - it's broiler all the way. FWIW I've used two different ovens, one in the UK, on in TN (neither of them particularly fancy models) and  both produced respectable heat.  Weird. Not sure what to say on that one...

Oh - one thing I forgot about totally. I do use a foil 'screen' around the edge of the stone. I'm not sure it really does a whole lot. I was hoping that it would reflect 'stray' radiation from the broiler element back on the pizza - but honestly I've had decent leoparding/char without the foil there.

Cheers,

Toby

edit: Oh and the Sprouts/Pancetta pie tasted good but I think it can be better. Got an idea for a better combination which I will try next time I make a batch of dough.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2010, 11:29:00 PM by Infoodel »


Offline pizzablogger

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1334
  • Location: Baltimore
Re: Nearlypolitan
« Reply #34 on: January 18, 2010, 03:00:33 PM »
Toby, am I correct in assuming that you are no longer employing the lava rocks around the edges of the pizza to place direct heat to the crust (but that would impede airflow, no?)?

Did you marinate or sautee the brussel sprouts at all before firing on the pizza? They look like the tops are burnt a bit (which looks like a good potential crunchy texture addition from the pics).

Thanks --K

"It's Baltimore, gentlemen, the gods will not save you." --Burrell

Infoodel

  • Guest
Re: Nearlypolitan
« Reply #35 on: January 18, 2010, 03:11:35 PM »
Toby, am I correct in assuming that you are no longer employing the lava rocks around the edges of the pizza to place direct heat to the crust (but that would impede airflow, no?)?

Did you marinate or sautee the brussel sprouts at all before firing on the pizza? They look like the tops are burnt a bit (which looks like a good potential crunchy texture addition from the pics).

Thanks --K
Re: lava rocks - you are correct. they are no more.

re: marinating -  nope. They would not have held up to sautéeing (individual leaves are quite delicate). They were like crispy, slightly bitter flakes. Not much on their own but worked esp. well with the pecorino.



Offline JimR

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 21
  • Location: ATL Area
Re: Nearlypolitan
« Reply #36 on: January 19, 2010, 08:58:51 AM »
I heat the stone for a couple of hours (max temp of the oven which is around 500-550F) and then place it under the broiler for ~20 minutes (the thermostat will shut it off typically once during that time).
I shape the base and when the broiler clicks back on, I finish topping it and transfer the pizza to the stone. The cook time is ~2 minutes during which I give it one, maybe two small turns (making sure it's gone through at least 90 degrees). Allow a few minutes (or one broiler cycle) between pizzas. That's about it.

That's really interesting. I have a 2stone grille now, but I may have to try that and take a temperature reading just to see the sort of temps you can get on the stone surface using this method.

From your later pics, though, I'm still not seeing really good leoparding.  Still, this looks to be a worthwhile technique.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2010, 09:44:40 AM by JimR »

Offline Tbombs34

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 39
  • Location: Baltimore, MD
  • I Love Pizza!
    • Pies in the Sky (a Pizza Blog)
Re: Nearlypolitan
« Reply #37 on: January 19, 2010, 04:22:38 PM »
Toby,

The recent pies look great.   :o  As a follower of your blog, it looks like you've made some great improvements over what was an already great product.  As I asked on your blog on one of your previous posts, would it be possible to use this recipe/formulation without using a starter?  If so, what would the altered process/formulation be?  Thanks and keep up the great work!!

Drew

Infoodel

  • Guest
Re: Nearlypolitan
« Reply #38 on: January 19, 2010, 04:40:29 PM »
Toby,

The recent pies look great.   :o  As a follower of your blog, it looks like you've made some great improvements over what was an already great product.  As I asked on your blog on one of your previous posts, would it be possible to use this recipe/formulation without using a starter?  If so, what would the altered process/formulation be?  Thanks and keep up the great work!!

Drew

Hi Drew,
Now that I've had some time working with the formula and also the oven - I think it is possible to make a separation between the formula and the cooking method.

Which is to say, I think just about any well-risen/proofed dough in the region of 60-65% hydration using predominantly 00 flour (maybe even other AP flours) can get you in the same ballpark, aesthetically speaking.

However as far as flavour is concerned, this formula represents my own particular tastes - which are inextricably tied to the use of a sourdough starter. I know I previously suggested trying a baker's yeasted biga (the equivalent in this latest formula  would be a  sponge/poolish) but it just won't give the same flavour and I'd hate to mislead you (further than I may already have??) by saying you could get a similar flavour from using IDY.  I'll brainstorm the IDY angle a little more in the next few days and see if I can't find something appropriate.

Meantime I feel sure there are several formulas in the 'Neapolitan' section of these forums that might be good candidates for what you might want to achieve.

Cheers,
Toby


Offline DEfusion

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6
Re: Nearlypolitan
« Reply #39 on: January 21, 2010, 07:42:57 PM »
That Pizza looks amazing, and given the oven temp and cooking technique gives me hope for my experiments.

I have a quick question about the Levain, having never used one I fancy giving it a go. The only bit I'm not sure of is how to get my starter going can you explain how you make/maintain your starter?

Infoodel

  • Guest
Re: Nearlypolitan
« Reply #40 on: January 21, 2010, 10:27:17 PM »
That Pizza looks amazing, and given the oven temp and cooking technique gives me hope for my experiments.

I have a quick question about the Levain, having never used one I fancy giving it a go. The only bit I'm not sure of is how to get my starter going can you explain how you make/maintain your starter?
Sure thing DEfusion.
There's a thread going on right now over in 'Starters/Sponges' http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10008
which details Norma's 'from scratch' starters. All the relevant info and links should be there for getting things going.
Right now I have two cultures - one rye and one wheat. The wheat starter was originally a rye starter which I then gradually started feeding wheat flour until it was 100% wheat (organic white flour).
Both are fed twice daily (12 hour intervals) and both are at 100% hydration (I recently took the rye back down to 100% from 133%).

Hope that helps,

Toby
« Last Edit: January 21, 2010, 10:30:03 PM by Infoodel »

Offline artigiano

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 240
  • Age: 34
  • Location: Vancouver, British Columbia
Re: Nearlypolitan
« Reply #41 on: January 21, 2010, 11:32:40 PM »
Best pizza I have ever seen on this site Toby!

Really incredible.


Offline Marty4pizza

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 3
Re: Nearlypolitan
« Reply #42 on: January 22, 2010, 04:34:08 PM »
Hi Infoodel,

I am a newbie and this is my first post.  Your efforts inspired me.  Thanks for sharing info.  I tried a fermented dough, as I have several times in the past.  It turned out so-so.  But as long as I had the oven hot already, I decided to just whip together another dough and give it a whirl.  I made this dough, let it rise for 45 minutes, then popped it in the oven under the broiler.  It baked in 1 minute and 50 seconds!  I was astounded.  And, it tasted great.  Go figure.  Anyway,  thanks for leading the way.

Offline hotsawce

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 687
Re: Nearlypolitan
« Reply #43 on: January 22, 2010, 06:02:49 PM »
Hi Infoodel,

I am a newbie and this is my first post.  Your efforts inspired me.  Thanks for sharing info.  I tried a fermented dough, as I have several times in the past.  It turned out so-so.  But as long as I had the oven hot already, I decided to just whip together another dough and give it a whirl.  I made this dough, let it rise for 45 minutes, then popped it in the oven under the broiler.  It baked in 1 minute and 50 seconds!  I was astounded.  And, it tasted great.  Go figure.  Anyway,  thanks for leading the way.

Looks amazing for a second attempt! You used Toby's most recent dough recipe?

Toby, do you think you could take a picture of the inside of your oven/broiler with stone setup? I'd like to see a picture of it. Also, do you think it's necessary to use a starter to achieve your results, toby? Or is it more in the Autolyse/dough recipe?

Infoodel

  • Guest
Re: Nearlypolitan
« Reply #44 on: January 22, 2010, 06:14:45 PM »
@Marty4Pizzza: Wow! Looking good there Marty. Nice work!

@hotsawce: Sure. I'll take a pic in the next few days. PM me to remind me in a day or so if I've forgotten! As I said before, starter is not necessary to achieve the aesthetics of neapolitan pizza (and in some ways can make things trickier) but it is crucial for the particular flavours I like...that's entirely a personal preference. A basic direct dough using instant yeast with a fermentation time of 8 hours or more can give great results.

Infoodel

  • Guest
Re: Nearlypolitan
« Reply #45 on: January 22, 2010, 06:18:03 PM »
Update:
I intended to get the final version of this formula sorted out and written up over the weekend - but I've just learned some really important / useful stuff over the last few days which has made me rethink my whole formula and mixing/proofing process. Just goes to show - you think you get a handle on something and then you realise there's so much more to learn. 

ALWAYS learning...

Toby

Offline hotsawce

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 687
Re: Nearlypolitan
« Reply #46 on: January 22, 2010, 06:40:21 PM »
@Marty4Pizzza: Wow! Looking good there Marty. Nice work!

@hotsawce: Sure. I'll take a pic in the next few days. PM me to remind me in a day or so if I've forgotten! As I said before, starter is not necessary to achieve the aesthetics of neapolitan pizza (and in some ways can make things trickier) but it is crucial for the particular flavours I like...that's entirely a personal preference. A basic direct dough using instant yeast with a fermentation time of 8 hours or more can give great results.


I'm not experienced with using starter, at all, so maybe I'll start with the basic way and move my way up to the method with the starter. Do you make your own starter?

Also, I'm looking forward to your final method! Do you think you could do a version with a dough recipe for people looking to make just one or two pizzas? I noticed one of your recipes has enough dough for 5; I'll never use that much.

All in all, very excited for this!
« Last Edit: January 22, 2010, 06:51:09 PM by hotsawce »

Offline Terry K

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1
Re: Nearlypolitan
« Reply #47 on: January 22, 2010, 06:45:55 PM »
Toby-  Your pizzas are spectacular!  I have been a lurker here for years and are amazed by the quality of your pizzas.  My question has to do with your oven set up.  Do you leave the oven door open in the broiler mode, and if so how long before you start to lose heat in the stone or does it maintain temperature.  Thanks for sharing your methods.

Infoodel

  • Guest
Re: Nearlypolitan
« Reply #48 on: January 22, 2010, 07:10:35 PM »
@hotsawce
Yes I make and maintain my own starter. It's really not that hard once you have a healthy starter culture.
I'll certainly bear smaller quantities in mind in the future. However if you see earlier in this thread, Pete-zza has kindly done all the number crunching in the 'dough calculator' to make it easier for folks to scale up (or down) the recipe using the calculator tool(s) which can be found here:
http://www.pizzamaking.com/dough_tools.html

@Terry K
Thanks for the kind words! Regarding the oven door - I leave it closed when I'm in broiler mode - only opening to either transfer, turn or remove the pizza from the oven.

Offline Marty4pizza

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 3
Re: Nearlypolitan
« Reply #49 on: January 23, 2010, 12:12:25 AM »
Hey, everyone.  Thanks for the kind words.  I just put together a recipe for the dough from my own experiments.  I used 1 1/4 cup (190 g) of Con Agra "King Midas Special" flour (which I love), 1 tsp SAF instant yeast, 1/2 tsp salt, 1 TBSP white sugar to help with browning (sorry to the purists out there) and 1/2 cup plus 1 TBSP water (110 g- about a 58% hydration).  I mixed the dry ingredients together prior to adding the water.  I let it rise for 45 minutes, hand-formed and topped and put it on the oven on an old 15" round stone (Pampered Chef I think) about 2 1/2 inches below the broiler element.

The King Midas flour has a protein level of 12.6 and fantastic flavor.  This pizza was the first I ever tried with this flour.  I hope this is helpful information.

Thanks, Marty.


 

pizzapan