Author Topic: Nearlypolitan  (Read 50569 times)

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Infoodel

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Re: Nearlypolitan
« Reply #40 on: January 21, 2010, 10:27:17 PM »
That Pizza looks amazing, and given the oven temp and cooking technique gives me hope for my experiments.

I have a quick question about the Levain, having never used one I fancy giving it a go. The only bit I'm not sure of is how to get my starter going can you explain how you make/maintain your starter?

Sure thing DEfusion.
There's a thread going on right now over in 'Starters/Sponges' http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10008
which details Norma's 'from scratch' starters. All the relevant info and links should be there for getting things going.
Right now I have two cultures - one rye and one wheat. The wheat starter was originally a rye starter which I then gradually started feeding wheat flour until it was 100% wheat (organic white flour).
Both are fed twice daily (12 hour intervals) and both are at 100% hydration (I recently took the rye back down to 100% from 133%).

Hope that helps,

Toby
« Last Edit: January 21, 2010, 10:30:03 PM by Infoodel »


Offline artigiano

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Re: Nearlypolitan
« Reply #41 on: January 21, 2010, 11:32:40 PM »
Best pizza I have ever seen on this site Toby!

Really incredible.

Offline Marty4pizza

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Re: Nearlypolitan
« Reply #42 on: January 22, 2010, 04:34:08 PM »
Hi Infoodel,

I am a newbie and this is my first post.  Your efforts inspired me.  Thanks for sharing info.  I tried a fermented dough, as I have several times in the past.  It turned out so-so.  But as long as I had the oven hot already, I decided to just whip together another dough and give it a whirl.  I made this dough, let it rise for 45 minutes, then popped it in the oven under the broiler.  It baked in 1 minute and 50 seconds!  I was astounded.  And, it tasted great.  Go figure.  Anyway,  thanks for leading the way.

Offline hotsawce

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Re: Nearlypolitan
« Reply #43 on: January 22, 2010, 06:02:49 PM »
Hi Infoodel,

I am a newbie and this is my first post.  Your efforts inspired me.  Thanks for sharing info.  I tried a fermented dough, as I have several times in the past.  It turned out so-so.  But as long as I had the oven hot already, I decided to just whip together another dough and give it a whirl.  I made this dough, let it rise for 45 minutes, then popped it in the oven under the broiler.  It baked in 1 minute and 50 seconds!  I was astounded.  And, it tasted great.  Go figure.  Anyway,  thanks for leading the way.

Looks amazing for a second attempt! You used Toby's most recent dough recipe?

Toby, do you think you could take a picture of the inside of your oven/broiler with stone setup? I'd like to see a picture of it. Also, do you think it's necessary to use a starter to achieve your results, toby? Or is it more in the Autolyse/dough recipe?

Infoodel

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Re: Nearlypolitan
« Reply #44 on: January 22, 2010, 06:14:45 PM »
@Marty4Pizzza: Wow! Looking good there Marty. Nice work!

@hotsawce: Sure. I'll take a pic in the next few days. PM me to remind me in a day or so if I've forgotten! As I said before, starter is not necessary to achieve the aesthetics of neapolitan pizza (and in some ways can make things trickier) but it is crucial for the particular flavours I like...that's entirely a personal preference. A basic direct dough using instant yeast with a fermentation time of 8 hours or more can give great results.

Infoodel

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Re: Nearlypolitan
« Reply #45 on: January 22, 2010, 06:18:03 PM »
Update:
I intended to get the final version of this formula sorted out and written up over the weekend - but I've just learned some really important / useful stuff over the last few days which has made me rethink my whole formula and mixing/proofing process. Just goes to show - you think you get a handle on something and then you realise there's so much more to learn. 

ALWAYS learning...

Toby

Offline hotsawce

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Re: Nearlypolitan
« Reply #46 on: January 22, 2010, 06:40:21 PM »
@Marty4Pizzza: Wow! Looking good there Marty. Nice work!

@hotsawce: Sure. I'll take a pic in the next few days. PM me to remind me in a day or so if I've forgotten! As I said before, starter is not necessary to achieve the aesthetics of neapolitan pizza (and in some ways can make things trickier) but it is crucial for the particular flavours I like...that's entirely a personal preference. A basic direct dough using instant yeast with a fermentation time of 8 hours or more can give great results.


I'm not experienced with using starter, at all, so maybe I'll start with the basic way and move my way up to the method with the starter. Do you make your own starter?

Also, I'm looking forward to your final method! Do you think you could do a version with a dough recipe for people looking to make just one or two pizzas? I noticed one of your recipes has enough dough for 5; I'll never use that much.

All in all, very excited for this!
« Last Edit: January 22, 2010, 06:51:09 PM by hotsawce »

Offline Terry K

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Re: Nearlypolitan
« Reply #47 on: January 22, 2010, 06:45:55 PM »
Toby-  Your pizzas are spectacular!  I have been a lurker here for years and are amazed by the quality of your pizzas.  My question has to do with your oven set up.  Do you leave the oven door open in the broiler mode, and if so how long before you start to lose heat in the stone or does it maintain temperature.  Thanks for sharing your methods.

Infoodel

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Re: Nearlypolitan
« Reply #48 on: January 22, 2010, 07:10:35 PM »
@hotsawce
Yes I make and maintain my own starter. It's really not that hard once you have a healthy starter culture.
I'll certainly bear smaller quantities in mind in the future. However if you see earlier in this thread, Pete-zza has kindly done all the number crunching in the 'dough calculator' to make it easier for folks to scale up (or down) the recipe using the calculator tool(s) which can be found here:
http://www.pizzamaking.com/dough_tools.html

@Terry K
Thanks for the kind words! Regarding the oven door - I leave it closed when I'm in broiler mode - only opening to either transfer, turn or remove the pizza from the oven.

Offline Marty4pizza

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Re: Nearlypolitan
« Reply #49 on: January 23, 2010, 12:12:25 AM »
Hey, everyone.  Thanks for the kind words.  I just put together a recipe for the dough from my own experiments.  I used 1 1/4 cup (190 g) of Con Agra "King Midas Special" flour (which I love), 1 tsp SAF instant yeast, 1/2 tsp salt, 1 TBSP white sugar to help with browning (sorry to the purists out there) and 1/2 cup plus 1 TBSP water (110 g- about a 58% hydration).  I mixed the dry ingredients together prior to adding the water.  I let it rise for 45 minutes, hand-formed and topped and put it on the oven on an old 15" round stone (Pampered Chef I think) about 2 1/2 inches below the broiler element.

The King Midas flour has a protein level of 12.6 and fantastic flavor.  This pizza was the first I ever tried with this flour.  I hope this is helpful information.

Thanks, Marty.


Infoodel

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Re: Nearlypolitan
« Reply #50 on: January 23, 2010, 11:13:16 PM »
Pictures of the oven (per request).
First picture is the stone resting on the oven floor (gets heated by bottom element) - if your oven heating element is exposed or you don't want to risk direct contact with the oven floor, you can simply put the stone on the lowest shelf closest to the element.

Second picture is the stone ready for broiler action. edit: I'll get a better picture soon - but basically it's the same as the first with the stone moved up to the top rack.

 
« Last Edit: January 24, 2010, 12:46:07 AM by Infoodel »

Offline hotsawce

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Re: Nearlypolitan
« Reply #51 on: January 23, 2010, 11:26:44 PM »
Your oven looks much smaller than my own; do you think I could get the same results in a larger conventional oven, or do you think your results could be attributed to the small oven space you have?

Also, is the pizza stone sitting inside of another pan?

Thanks for the pics!

Infoodel

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Re: Nearlypolitan
« Reply #52 on: January 24, 2010, 12:09:57 AM »
Your oven looks much smaller than my own; do you think I could get the same results in a larger conventional oven, or do you think your results could be attributed to the small oven space you have?

Also, is the pizza stone sitting inside of another pan?

Thanks for the pics!

I don't think the size of the oven has much bearing on the result. The broiler is bearing the brunt of the work. So as long as you can get the stone close to the broiler - should be fine.

Yes the pizza stone is sitting inside another pan (makes it easier to move).

Toby

Offline pizzablogger

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Re: Nearlypolitan
« Reply #53 on: January 25, 2010, 05:23:03 PM »
You cheater, what's with the backstop......wouldn't be any fun if a skin didn't droop of the back of the stone from time to time!  :P

Okay, in seriousness do you notice any aid in outer crust cooking by employing the aluminum foil collar Toby? Does the aluminum foil actually rest against the crust while cooking or is there a small amount of airspace between the aluminum foil collar and your pizza (if that's a 12" stone and your pizzas are typically 10" to 11", I would imagine so??)? Finally, is the foil backstop comprised of just aluminum foil, or is there something providing some rigidity under the foil.

Thanks Toby! :D

"It's Baltimore, gentlemen, the gods will not save you." --Burrell

Infoodel

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Re: Nearlypolitan
« Reply #54 on: January 25, 2010, 06:24:37 PM »
You cheater, what's with the backstop......wouldn't be any fun if a skin didn't droop of the back of the stone from time to time!  :P

Okay, in seriousness do you notice any aid in outer crust cooking by employing the aluminum foil collar Toby? Does the aluminum foil actually rest against the crust while cooking or is there a small amount of airspace between the aluminum foil collar and your pizza (if that's a 12" stone and your pizzas are typically 10" to 11", I would imagine so??)? Finally, is the foil backstop comprised of just aluminum foil, or is there something providing some rigidity under the foil.

Thanks Toby! :D
That's a 15" stone.
What you don't see is the back stop on the rack itself which I took off with a hacksaw so that the oven could fit a 15" pizza stone.
The pies have been around the 11" mark but I'm stretching nicely to 12" and beyond now I've figured out what I was doing wrong.

As for drooping skins(! - I'm just glad we're posting on a pizza forum :D) - you should have seen my last pie (I think I tweeted a pic) - the dough dropped off the front!

Re: foil - no contact with the foil at all. In fact the foil is a bit of a foil (arf arf). I suspect you can do equally well without it. 

Toby

Offline hotsawce

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Re: Nearlypolitan
« Reply #55 on: January 26, 2010, 07:20:11 PM »
Any update on the recipe, or any new pies you've made?  :chef:

Infoodel

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Re: Nearlypolitan
« Reply #56 on: January 26, 2010, 07:58:11 PM »
Any update on the recipe, or any new pies you've made?  :chef:
I've been focusing on balancing bulk fermentation time and proofing time (determining minimum proof time).
Also working on kneading/dough development to balance extensibility and elasticity (all of which changes any time I change the hydration). I think I've been too aggressive with my dough mixing.
It's made me appreciate how the traditional neapolitan approach (direct dough, low hydration, short bulk fermentation, long proof times)  is flawless in many respects - at least as far as aesthetics etc. are concerned.
Anyway, I'm still working on it but trying to avoid pizza burn-out at the same time ;)

FP

« Last Edit: January 26, 2010, 08:00:16 PM by Infoodel »

Offline hotsawce

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Re: Nearlypolitan
« Reply #57 on: January 26, 2010, 08:43:03 PM »
What do you mean by direct dough, if you don't mind me asking?

Infoodel

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Re: Nearlypolitan
« Reply #58 on: January 26, 2010, 08:47:05 PM »
direct dough as in no preferment.

Toby.

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Nearlypolitan
« Reply #59 on: January 27, 2010, 07:15:46 AM »

It's made me appreciate how the traditional neapolitan approach (direct dough, low hydration, short bulk fermentation, long proof times)  is flawless in many respects -


Not sure I agree that low hydration, short ferment, and long proof are the "traditional" Neapolitan approach. Could you elaborate? Thank!