Author Topic: What can I expect with KASL?  (Read 2817 times)

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Offline ThunderStik

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What can I expect with KASL?
« on: November 02, 2009, 04:45:35 PM »
Thanks to member Trogdor I recently found a local source for KASL. I have been using GM BFB ( after reading about bromates the All Trumps went away). What if any differences can I expect with the KASL? THings like dough feel, hydration differences, heat tolerance,etc...

Thanks Bill
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: What can I expect with KASL?
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2009, 05:30:39 PM »
Bill,

Because of its increased gluten formation characteristics compared with other flours, you can expect to see increased dough volume and gas retention. Because of its higher absorption value, you should also be able to use more water in the dough (the rated absorption value for the KASL is 63%). Also, because of the higher protein content (14.2% +/- 0.2%), you should see increased crust coloration and flavor. The higher protein/gluten content should also translate into a somewhat longer fermentation window, both overall and the temper period prior to using. The predominant effect on texture will be an increase in chewiness of the crust. That chewiness can lead to a more leathery characteristic as it cools down. For this reason, some pizza operators prefer not to use high-gluten flour for delivery pizzas.

The KASL flour is slightly higher in protein content than competing high-gluten flours, in part because its specifications are the tightest in the industry (+/- 0.2%). The flour is nonbleached and it is nonbromated. Because the flour is nonbromated, it is often not a preferred flour where a dough requires increased retention of its volume at the time of its final proof before baking. An example of this would be a Sicilian dough.

You shouldn't expect to see night and day changes. Some people actually end up going back to bread flour, such as the KABF.

Peter

Offline ThunderStik

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Re: What can I expect with KASL?
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2009, 05:54:07 PM »
Thanks Pete,
                        Yeah I had wondered about it being too much protein but I think I will start out with a minimal knead time and see how it turns out. I dont want to end up with a leather boot so I dont think that the 30min knead time will be called for.  ;D

I have been wanting to try some new dough formulation and had some plans already but I think I will wait for the new flour as I will will probably need a batch or 2 under my belt with that stuff to figure out how its going to act and get a feel for what it likes and doesnt.

How is the flavor of doughs made with this flour with a 3-5 day (or longer) ferm time?

I KNOW MORE ABOUT PIZZA THAN ANYBODY!!!!!!!

(in my house)

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: What can I expect with KASL?
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2009, 06:42:24 PM »
Bill,

When I played around with geriatric pizza doughs at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3985.0.html, I used KASL quite a bit. However, the doughs were usually several days old and up to a few weeks, so it would be difficult to isolate the flavor contributions of the KASL from the flavor contributions of the byproducts of very long fermentation. I would say that the byproducts of fermentation were perhaps the main reason. I am not even certain that I could isolate the crust color contribution of the KASL. If you scan the photos in the above thread, you will see plenty of crust coloration. Again, I suspect that the main crust color came from the biochemistry of the dough during fermentation.

There is no doubt about the increased crust color contribution from using the KASL. If you make, say, an all-purpose dough and a KASL dough using the same formulation, adjusting for hydration, and bake up the pizzas in the same manner, you should see the difference. You should also see many of the other differences as noted in my last post. The gradations narrow once you move to bread flour, especially if supplemented with vital wheat gluten (VWG), as many of our members do. But there is no way to conclude that a bread flour supplemented with VWG is identical to high-gluten flour.

Peter


Offline milo357

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Re: What can I expect with KASL?
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2009, 05:43:16 PM »
I, too, benefited from Trogdors post, and now have several bags of KASL. 

I was very happy with how the first pizza turned out, the crust was crisp, light, looked excellent.  Best of all, it didn't taste like a pillsberry product! Hah!  But....

It was sorta bland.  Like Dominos.  Good when hot, but not really an ZING.

Can anyone suggest some additions I could try to add taste?  My favorite ALL TIME pizza was from Zino's in Cincinnati, Oh, but that no longer exists.  Second would be LaRosa's, also in Cincy.  Third favorite would be Pizza Hut Hand tossed.

The Great Pete-zza wrote the following once...  ;)

PizzaManic,

I'm glad to see that you were able to procure a pizza screen and to make a pizza with it.

When I undertook to reverse engineer and clone a basic Papa John's pizza, I did not try to embellish it in any way to increase the crust flavors. In other words, I did not venture outside of the four corners of the PJ clone dough recipe I used. However, as somewhat a generalization, here are some of the usual ways to get more flavor in a finished crust:

1. Use a long fermentation time, whether at room temperature or in a refrigerator or cooler. Under the proper conditions, a combination of room temperature fermentation and cold fermentation can also be used.

2. Use a higher protein flour or combine the flour with other grains/grain components, such as rye flour, cornmeal/cornflour, whole wheat flour, semolina flour, 00 flour, or wheat germ.

3. Use a natural starter/preferment.

4. Use a preferment based on commercial yeast. Examples include poolish, sponge, biga, and old dough (pate fermente).

5. Use flavor enhancers in the dough such as honey, maple syrup, molasses, nondiastatic barley malt, garlic powder, or herbs.

6. Use butter or other flavorful solid fat as an oil replacer in the dough, or use a more flavorful oil. The rim of the dough can also be brushed with butter or oil before baking.

7. Select a baking protocol (oven temperature, bake time, rack positioning, and possibly use of the broiler) to enhance the caramelization of sugars in the dough (to produce a more flavorful rim).

As you might expect, implementing some of the above measures may entail having to modify the dough formulation and related procedures and other factors.


Can anyone tell me which of the above may lead me in the desired direction?

Would use of a preferment affect the taste greatly?  Cold fermentation time?  Last minute additives to the dough just before adding ingredients and baking?

Thanks,

Milo

Offline Trogdor33

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Re: What can I expect with KASL?
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2009, 12:21:30 PM »
Milo,

My best flavor results have actually been achieved using lactic acid powder in my dough formula as Red November suggested. Here's my current formula that I have been very pleased with so far. I cold ferment for 2-3 days and have been taking out of the fridge 5 hours before baking.

KASL   100.00%
Water   61.00%
IDY   0.40%
Sea Salt   2.00%
EVOO   1.75%
Lactic Acid Powder   0.70%
For all you non-geeks who may be wondering what the name trogdor is all about, have a look here: http://www.homestarrunner.com/sbemail58.html

Offline 2112

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Re: What can I expect with KASL?
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2009, 11:37:19 AM »
Hello,

I would be willing to try a little 'Lactic Acid Powder' to see what it brings to the taste of my pies.

What are the easiest means to secure such a product?

Thanks,

Vince
I started out with nothing and still have most of it left!

Offline BurntEdges

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Re: What can I expect with KASL?
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2009, 12:03:16 PM »

I would be willing to try a little 'Lactic Acid Powder' to see what it brings to the taste of my pies.

What are the easiest means to secure such a product?

http://www.bacchus-barleycorn.com/catalog/acids-c-1.html

Offline Trogdor33

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Re: What can I expect with KASL?
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2009, 07:00:34 PM »
One of the little 4oz bags you get on there is enough for almost 60lb of dough, so it goes a long way. Regardless, I bought 3 bags from there because shipping is a lot compared to the price of the powder. Next time I will most likely buy 6 of them (~$20 with shipping) and just be set for a year.
For all you non-geeks who may be wondering what the name trogdor is all about, have a look here: http://www.homestarrunner.com/sbemail58.html

Offline 2112

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Re: What can I expect with KASL?
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2009, 03:50:58 PM »


Thank You!!

 ;D
I started out with nothing and still have most of it left!


Offline rsimon719

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Re: What can I expect with KASL?
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2009, 08:12:52 AM »
Not sure what "Flavor" you are trying to get, but with my KASL dough, we add a little (1 tsp / 800 g flour) of both onion powder and garlic powder. You can't tell that it is in there, but you can taste there is a difference and it tastes great.

- Rich

Offline 2112

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Re: What can I expect with KASL?
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2009, 12:31:38 PM »
I like to try out all sorts of things from time to time just to sample certain flavors.

I have been working with the lactic acid and depending on the amount of rest and temp at which it rests seems to make for a taste I truly enjoy.

Now the wife my say otherwise but.......Anyway I will give some onion and garlic a try. Who doesn't like onion and garlic, right?

Thanks for the input.

Vince

I started out with nothing and still have most of it left!