Author Topic: Thicker papa johns clone Help Petezza!  (Read 2631 times)

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Offline bonesbr549

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Thicker papa johns clone Help Petezza!
« on: January 08, 2010, 10:21:00 AM »
My family has requested that I thicken up my pizza dough a bit.  I think it's perfect.  I'm using the papa johns clone recipie but it is thinner than a true popa johns.   I use 12" screens to start the dough on in an oven with two stones at 5:50.  I remove the screen after 5 minutes and cook about 4 or 5 more directly on the stone.  To make the pie a bit thicker, do I change the thickness factor from .13642 (that was given to me by petezza) or do i just change the size in the calculator from 12" to 14" and just put it on the 12" screen.    Peteza you out there? Here's my current settings used in the calculator.  For this one I'll need a fast rise as I'm making this afternoon and cooking tomorrow evening for some unexpected guests (requested the pies).    (last try was http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9690.0.html)

size 12"
number of balls 3
hyd 57.5%
IDY .28 %
salt 1.75%
olive oil 7.3%
sugar 4.2%
bakers nfdm 4%
bowl res 1.5%    (don't know exactly what that is)





Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Thicker papa johns clone Help Petezza!
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2010, 10:28:14 AM »
bonesbr549,

What size and number of pizzas do you want to make?

The bowl residue compensation is an easy way to compensate for minor dough losses during preparation of the dough. The 1.5% number is for a dough made in a standard stand mixer. There will almost always be some flour/water/dough that sticks to the sides of the mixer bowl, measuring cups/spoons, the agitators (e.g., flat beater and C-hook/spiral hook), work surfaces, your hands, etc.

Peter

Offline bonesbr549

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Re: Thicker papa johns clone Help Petezza!
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2010, 10:47:07 AM »
bonesbr549,

What size and number of pizzas do you want to make?

The bowl residue compensation is an easy way to compensate for minor dough losses during preparation of the dough. The 1.5% number is for a dough made in a standard stand mixer. There will almost always be some flour/water/dough that sticks to the sides of the mixer bowl, measuring cups/spoons, the agitators (e.g., flat beater and C-hook/spiral hook), work surfaces, your hands, etc.

Peter

Thanks for the explination.   The number of pies is 3.  That seems to work well, and the estimated weights/ball came out dang on the money using the calculatore.  I did not mention that I'm using all trumps high glueten flour. 

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Thicker papa johns clone Help Petezza!
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2010, 10:49:25 AM »
You forgot to tell me what size pizzas you want.

Peter

Offline bonesbr549

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Re: Thicker papa johns clone Help Petezza!
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2010, 10:51:58 AM »
You forgot to tell me what size pizzas you want.

Peter

12"  Same size pies but just the bottom a bit thicker

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Thicker papa johns clone Help Petezza!
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2010, 11:16:50 AM »
bonesbr549,

The thickness factor I gave you last time was based on using 21 ounces of dough for a 14" size pizza, which was one of the benchmark sizes I used for my reverse-engineering/clone experiments. However, I also experimented with a 22-ounce dough ball for a 14" pizza, using a thickness factor of 0.142915. That might be a better value for you to use, but for a 12" pizza, to get a somewhat thicker crust. You can alway increase that value the next time if it turns out that the crust is still not thick enough for your purposes. Based on the above, I used the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html to come up with the ingredient quantities for the dough for three 12" pizzas, as follows:

All Trumps High-Gluten Flour (100%):
Water (58.5%):
IDY (0.28%):
Salt (1.75%):
Olive Oil (7.3%):
Sugar (4.2%):
Baker's Non-Fat Dry Milk (4%):
Total (176.03%):
Single Ball:
792.65 g  |  27.96 oz | 1.75 lbs
463.7 g  |  16.36 oz | 1.02 lbs
2.22 g | 0.08 oz | 0 lbs | 0.74 tsp | 0.25 tbsp
13.87 g | 0.49 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.49 tsp | 0.83 tbsp
57.86 g | 2.04 oz | 0.13 lbs | 4.29 tbsp | 0.27 cups
33.29 g | 1.17 oz | 0.07 lbs | 8.35 tsp | 2.78 tbsp
31.71 g | 1.12 oz | 0.07 lbs | 8.13 tsp | 2.71 tbsp
1395.31 g | 49.22 oz | 3.08 lbs | TF = 0.1450587
465.1 g | 16.41 oz | 1.03 lbs
Note: Nominal thickness factor = 0.142915; dough is for three 12" pizzas; bowl residue compensation = 1.5%

You will note that I increased the hydration percent to 58.5% since you indicated that you would be using the All Trumps high-gluten flour. I have not worked with that flour, so you may have to tweak the water and/or flour a bit to get the desired dough condition. Since you have been making this style of dough for some time, you should not have a problem with this.

Please let us know how the pizzas turn out, preferably with some photos.

Peter

Offline bonesbr549

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Re: Thicker papa johns clone Help Petezza!
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2010, 11:28:03 AM »
bonesbr549,

The thickness factor I gave you last time was based on using 21 ounces of dough for a 14" size pizza, which was one of the benchmark sizes I used for my reverse-engineering/clone experiments. However, I also experimented with a 22-ounce dough ball for a 14" pizza, using a thickness factor of 0.142915. That might be a better value for you to use, but for a 12" pizza, to get a somewhat thicker crust. You can alway increase that value the next time if it turns out that the crust is still not thick enough for your purposes. Based on the above, I used the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html to come up with the ingredient quantities for the dough for three 12" pizzas, as follows:

All Trumps High-Gluten Flour (100%):
Water (58.5%):
IDY (0.28%):
Salt (1.75%):
Olive Oil (7.3%):
Sugar (4.2%):
Baker's Non-Fat Dry Milk (4%):
Total (176.03%):
Single Ball:
792.65 g  |  27.96 oz | 1.75 lbs
463.7 g  |  16.36 oz | 1.02 lbs
2.22 g | 0.08 oz | 0 lbs | 0.74 tsp | 0.25 tbsp
13.87 g | 0.49 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.49 tsp | 0.83 tbsp
57.86 g | 2.04 oz | 0.13 lbs | 4.29 tbsp | 0.27 cups
33.29 g | 1.17 oz | 0.07 lbs | 8.35 tsp | 2.78 tbsp
31.71 g | 1.12 oz | 0.07 lbs | 8.13 tsp | 2.71 tbsp
1395.31 g | 49.22 oz | 3.08 lbs | TF = 0.1450587
465.1 g | 16.41 oz | 1.03 lbs
Note: Nominal thickness factor = 0.142915; dough is for three 12" pizzas; bowl residue compensation = 1.5%

You will note that I increased the hydration percent to 58.5% since you indicated that you would be using the All Trumps high-gluten flour. I have not worked with that flour, so you may have to tweak the water and/or flour a bit to get the desired dough condition. Since you have been making this style of dough for some time, you should not have a problem with this.

Please let us know how the pizzas turn out, preferably with some photos.

Peter



Thanks sir!  I'll give it a try and let you know how it goes!

Offline bonesbr549

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Re: Thicker papa johns clone Help Petezza!
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2010, 07:37:52 PM »
Well I want to say thank you on behalf of myself and especially my son!  He said I finallly got the thickness right!   The only thing I did was kick the IDY up to 4g's due to the short raise time.  I mixed it up Friday evenying when I got home from work.  I put the slightly oiled balls our in the garage since it was cold here.  I brought them in first thing Saturday morning aprox 8:00 Am.  I let them sit on the counter in the kitchen with the bowl lids vented all day.  I put the dough on screens around 4:00 P.M.   I could tell the skins were thicker from my other recipie.  As allways my sauce is 6-in-1 with fresh basil,oregino, galic powder, onion powder, ground fennil seed, sugar and a little oil mixed in a food processor for about 4 minutes prior to putting on the pies.  My three were a peperoni for the son, a veggie for the wife and a meat lovers (peperoni, sausage, ham and veggies).   Cooked on the lower stone for six minutes removed the screen and finished for 6 more minutes on the top stone.  All were perfect! 


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Thicker papa johns clone Help Petezza!
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2010, 09:04:29 PM »
bonesbr549,

I'm glad that things worked out for you and your family. It looks like you are zeroing in on a basic recipe that you can use over and over again.

Peter


 

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