Thin Crust Question

[AmsterdamPizza]

I have a question.. How is everyone handling the very wet doughs spread out for a thin crust? I have a hard time keeping mine together, maybe I am mishandling it, but I almost always end up re-balling after my final proof because I screw it up. The dough is just so delicate...

I was thinking about just spreading it out in the cutter pan, par-baking it, and then putting it on the stone...

Any tips?

[buceriasdon]

I solved the problem by not making high hyration dough for thin crusts I kid but most thin crust doughs are low in water to flour ratio, like 50% or less. I have seen recipes where the % is in the middle to high 30s 45% is a good trade off to me.
Don

I have a question.. How is everyone handling the very wet doughs spread out for a thin crust? I have a hard time keeping mine together, maybe I am mishandling it, but I almost always end up re-balling after my final proof because I screw it up. The dough is just so delicate...

I was thinking about just spreading it out in the cutter pan, par-baking it, and then putting it on the stone...

Any tips?

[loowaters]

I've just made some Vito & Nick's clone dough which is quite wet, but if you use a healthy amount of bench flour it's workable.  I begin by giving it the initial dunk in the flour to completely coat it but I also have sprinkled some flour out on the counter to roll it out.  This particular dough gets a pretty good amount of semolina on the peel to help it slide and about six or seven minutes later (@ 500*) I've got a great Chicago Style thin clone.

Loo

[AmsterdamPizza]

I am making a modified crust from Peter Reinhart's "Bread Bakers Apprentice" that fits the Chicago-thin tradition. Reinhart seems really worried in his recipe about taking all of the air out of the dough, so for me it seems like the use of the rolling pin would kill the texture I'm going for. Maybe I should just roll it out in the cutter pan, let it proof for 90 minutes, par-bake, and then transfer to the stone for the finish..

[CDNpielover]

I've never had a really airy chicago-style thin crust.  just about 100% of shops use sheeters anyhow, which is really a glorified rolling pin.

[buceriasdon]

This might be quite good but it won't be a thin crust pizza.
Don

I am making a modified crust from Peter Reinhart's "Bread Bakers Apprentice" that fits the Chicago-thin tradition. Reinhart seems really worried in his recipe about taking all of the air out of the dough, so for me it seems like the use of the rolling pin would kill the texture I'm going for. Maybe I should just roll it out in the cutter pan, let it proof for 90 minutes, par-bake, and then transfer to the stone for the finish..

[AmsterdamPizza]

Hmm.. I am going to have to just make a pizza to illustrate what I mean.. 

I'll make two dough balls using the cold ferment procedure from the book. One will sit in my fridge for 24 hours, the other for 48 hours.

The goal is to go for a thin and crackery crust using the cold ferment process laid out in the book, with the recipe slightly adjusted to fit the typical Chicago thins I like to make:
****Flour (100%):    300.91 g  |  10.61 oz | 0.66 lbs
Water (59.1%):    177.84 g  |  6.27 oz | 0.39 lbs
IDY (.54%):    1.62 g | 0.06 oz | 0 lbs | 0.54 tsp | 0.18 tbsp
Salt (2.2%):    6.62 g | 0.23 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.38 tsp | 0.46 tbsp
Olive Oil (4%):    12.04 g | 0.42 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.67 tsp | 0.89 tbsp
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (14%):    42.13 g | 1.49 oz | 0.09 lbs | 9.28 tsp | 3.09 tbsp
Total (179.84%):   541.15 g | 19.09 oz | 1.19 lbs | TF = 0.062
Single Ball:   270.58 g | 9.54 oz | 0.6 lbs

****Flour is:
(75%) 225.69gr High Gluten Flour from 'De Zuid Molen'
(15%) 45.13gr Semolina
(10%) 30.09gr Rice flour

[buceriasdon]

Question, why so much oil? At a glance your recipe would use twice the amount Reinhart uses. Just wondered.
Don

[AmsterdamPizza]

Like I said.. It's a modified Reinhart for the Chicago thin tradition. I am most interested in the cold ferment than anything else.

[AmsterdamPizza]

I made my first pizza today with the cold ferment. -It turned out pretty good I thought. It had that great crunch when I cut into it, the middle was slightly soggy but I think I should have left the pizza in just a little longer and it would have been perfect.

I have another pizza I'll make tomorrow, so I'll make sure to post the results here.

Thanks much to everyone who posts their recipes on here. It's very much appreciated!

Here is how it was made:
Use for formulation above in Reply 6 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,16446.msg161957.html#msg161957).

Make sure to have water refrigerated down to about 4 C/40 F.
Sift all of the flour, yeast, and salt together in my metal bowl.
Then make a well at the bottom of the bowl.
Pour in the oil and the ice cold water into the well. -I use a cold metal spoon and begin stirring the flour into the oily water. Occasionally I dip the spoon into the rest of my ice cold water in order to keep it from warming up the dough.

Continue mixing like this for about 7 minutes in total.
Dust a surface with flour and then take the ball out of the bowl. Dust the top with a little more flour and then using your hands, form a tight ball.
Immediately place it in the fridge inside of an oiled plastic bag. -Let it rest there for 24 hours or more..

Take it out about an hour and half before you want to make your pizza and let it warm up to room temperature. This is also a great time to crank your oven up and begin preheating it.

I par-baked this one in my black cutter pan for two minutes at 300 C (570 F). I used the cutter pan because I just can't get the dough to spread without ripping it using the peel and launching onto the stone...

After the par-bake I put my ingredients on, and then slide it onto the stone for about 5-8 minutes.

[AmsterdamPizza]

I made this pizza style again and I think the results were outstanding. I let me over warm up at 575 F for about an hour, par-baked the crust for 3 minutes, and cooked it on my stone for about 10 minutes.

I tweaked cold-fermentation methodology as well as the ingredients in the dough. Here is how it worked out:

I started with a poolish actually:
60.169 g flour
.45 g yeast
75.42 g water

I let that sit together for about 4 hours.

Then I added in the dough ingredients:
89.83 flour
2.56 yeast
Salt (1%):    1.5 g | 0.05 oz | 0 lbs | 0.31 tsp | 0.1 tbsp
Olive Oil (3%):    4.51 g | 0.16 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1 tsp | 0.33 tbsp
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (8%):    12.04 g | 0.42 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.65 tsp | 0.88 tbsp
Sugar (2%):    3.01 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.75 tsp | 0.25 tbsp
Milk (fresh) (8%):    12.04 g | 0.42 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.41 tsp | 0.8 tbsp

I kept the dough ingredients as cool as possible, but let the poolish work at room temperature, approx 20 degrees C (70F). The flour, oils, sugar, and milk were all about 40 degrees F. I mixed everything together with a cold metal spoon until it formed a ball. I floured a work surface and kneaded the ball until it was somewhat smooth, but slightly tacky. I then oiled a bowl, covered it and placed it in the fridge for 20 hours. So simple.

Total formulation:
Flour (100%):    150.49 g  |  5.31 oz | 0.33 lbs
Water (50%):    75.24 g  |  2.65 oz | 0.17 lbs
IDY (2%):    3.01 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1 tsp | 0.33 tbsp
Salt (1%):    1.5 g | 0.05 oz | 0 lbs | 0.31 tsp | 0.1 tbsp
Olive Oil (3%):    4.51 g | 0.16 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1 tsp | 0.33 tbsp
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (8%):    12.04 g | 0.42 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.65 tsp | 0.88 tbsp
Sugar (2%):    3.01 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.75 tsp | 0.25 tbsp
Milk (fresh) (8%):    12.04 g | 0.42 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.41 tsp | 0.8 tbsp
Total (174%):   261.85 g | 9.24 oz | 0.58 lbs | TF = 0.06

6 hours before baking I took the dough from the Fridge and punched it down, then put it back in my fridge.

Four hours before baking I took the dough ball out of the fridge and let it rise again until I was ready to bake.

One hour before bake I shaped my pizza to a decent circle shape and let it proof under a towel. I then put holes in the dough using my trusty fork, and par-baked it for 3-4 minutes at 575 degrees in an oven which had been pre-heating for about an hour.

I put the ingredients on, and baked for another ten minutes.

The results were a crackery and thin crust, just what I was looking for.

One other thing.. I find that my sausage always creates a lot of moisture. Today I lightly dusted my sausages with a little bit of flour before putting them on the pizza. That really seemed to do the trick of avoiding the dreaded soupiness I sometimes end up with on my pizza's. I will for sure use that trick again.

One thing I would change though is the par-bake. Next time I'm just going to put it all in the oven at the same time. I felt like the edges of the crust were a little too crispy and I noted that the cheese could have done with a little more time in the oven.

[CDNpielover]

looks great!     and yea, i think you should try skipping the par bake.