A real deep dish video

[Pete-zza]

Anyone notice that the original video from this post has been removed from Youtube?

Go back a few posts to Reply 175.

Peter

[loowaters]

I know Battaglia does different mozzarella cheese types and labels them in red or blue.

Loo

[loowaters]

We've all done a lot of tinkering with Malnati's dough but the one that I'm sticking with is from Reply #50 in this thread.  I can't do better.  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10161.msg89174.html#msg89174

I made some pizzas following this formula yesterday that were the finest I've done and I think the slight improvement that I got out of it was due to the management of the dough.  The dough was made 24 hrs. before use with, despite using IDY, some really warm water.  Not exactly sure but probably around 110*.  First the yeast went into the KA mixer bowl followed by the water.  Quick whisk to mix them up.  Added the oil then the flour.  Mixed on "mix" speed of KA Artisan with dough hook for 2:15.

I nuked three cups of water in a glass measuring cup to boiling then put the mass of dough into the mic along with the hot water for 1hr 45min.  The entire mass went into a ziplock bag then into the fridge, back bottom where it's coldest.  Pulled dough out 2 hours before use but let sit for only about 20 mins. before portioning.    I heated up some water again then placed the dough balls into the microwave with that hot water just like the initial rise.  Small area with high humidity was perfect.  Very strong yeasty/beer fragrance to this, a great indicator to me that, based on previous experience, it should taste right on.

I've included pics of the dough balls just after portioning when they were still cool. In the pic, the upper left dough ball is 285g for a 12" thin but the low center and upper right balls are each 340g for 9" deep dish pies. This is the closest looking to the Malnati's dough balls from the video (no longer available) that I've been able to produce.  No pics of the finished pies but they were delicious!

Here's the entire formulation:

Flour (100%):    574.55 g  |  20.27 oz | 1.27 lbs
Water (45.88%):    263.6 g  |  9.3 oz | 0.58 lbs
IDY (0.5%):    2.87 g | 0.1 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.95 tsp | 0.32 tbsp
Olive Oil (3.8%):    21.83 g | 0.77 oz | 0.05 lbs | 4.85 tsp | 1.62 tbsp
Corn Oil (19.12%):    109.85 g | 3.87 oz | 0.24 lbs | 8.14 tbsp | 0.51 cups
Total (169.3%):   972.7 g | 34.31 oz | 2.14 lbs | TF = 0.1213

Any questions, just ask.

Loo

[Pete-zza]

Loo,

I think you can use those as loofahs, or, should I say, Loo-fahs  .

Peter

[BTB]

I love it when someone loves a recipe that they've successfully used before and do it again with great results.  Good job, fella.  Good technique.  That tells a lot about the special little angles and techniques that some of our favorite places go through, but that we never discover.  The dough balls looked great and reminded me a little of the "lighter" color of the one Malnati's dough ball that I had tried out earlier (in color and appearance).

                                                                                                --BTB                        

[ScottH]

  Very strong yeasty/beer fragrance to this, a great indicator to me that, based on previous experience, it should taste right on.



Flour (100%):    574.55 g  |  20.27 oz | 1.27 lbs
Water (45.88%):    263.6 g  |  9.3 oz | 0.58 lbs
IDY (0.5%):    2.87 g | 0.1 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.95 tsp | 0.32 tbsp
Olive Oil (3.8%):    21.83 g | 0.77 oz | 0.05 lbs | 4.85 tsp | 1.62 tbsp
Corn Oil (19.12%):    109.85 g | 3.87 oz | 0.24 lbs | 8.14 tbsp | 0.51 cups
Total (169.3%):   972.7 g | 34.31 oz | 2.14 lbs | TF = 0.1213

Any questions, just ask.

Loo
[/quote]
 


That yeasty flavor is what defines a good Lou's crust/pizza and is what I find hardest to replicate with consistency.It's not always consistent at their restaurants either.  Like you, when the dough had that fragrance the pizza inevitably turned out well. Would rather have the flavor profile in trade for the perfect texture.

Since visiting Pizza Making here a few years ago I have been working on my own recipe. Many times I had the yeast flavor but haven't been able to lock down what causes it. Frustration. I think like you are leaning, its in the temp of the proof. Have a batch of your dough recipe proofing now, 2% more oil, 2% less water. Thought I would try others recipes and compare to mine which has much higher water and oil content. ( or lower flour content depending on how you want to look at it :p )

Tried BTB's semolina/rice recipe but as you know, its not the correct texture or flavor for Lou Malnati's Pizza. The crunch is too fine and the semolina flavor is a step in the wrong direction.

[BDoggPizza]

We've all done a lot of tinkering with Malnati's dough but the one that I'm sticking with is from Reply #50 in this thread.  I can't do better.  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10161.msg89174.html#msg89174

I made some pizzas following this formula yesterday that were the finest I've done and I think the slight improvement that I got out of it was due to the management of the dough.  The dough was made 24 hrs. before use with, despite using IDY, some really warm water.  Not exactly sure but probably around 110*.  First the yeast went into the KA mixer bowl followed by the water.  Quick whisk to mix them up.  Added the oil then the flour.  Mixed on "mix" speed of KA Artisan with dough hook for 2:15.

I nuked three cups of water in a glass measuring cup to boiling then put the mass of dough into the mic along with the hot water for 1hr 45min.  The entire mass went into a ziplock bag then into the fridge, back bottom where it's coldest.  Pulled dough out 2 hours before use but let sit for only about 20 mins. before portioning.    I heated up some water again then placed the dough balls into the microwave with that hot water just like the initial rise.  Small area with high humidity was perfect.  Very strong yeasty/beer fragrance to this, a great indicator to me that, based on previous experience, it should taste right on.

I've included pics of the dough balls just after portioning when they were still cool. In the pic, the upper left dough ball is 285g for a 12" thin but the low center and upper right balls are each 340g for 9" deep dish pies. This is the closest looking to the Malnati's dough balls from the video (no longer available) that I've been able to produce.  No pics of the finished pies but they were delicious!

Here's the entire formulation:

Flour (100%):    574.55 g  |  20.27 oz | 1.27 lbs
Water (45.88%):    263.6 g  |  9.3 oz | 0.58 lbs
IDY (0.5%):    2.87 g | 0.1 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.95 tsp | 0.32 tbsp
Olive Oil (3.8%):    21.83 g | 0.77 oz | 0.05 lbs | 4.85 tsp | 1.62 tbsp
Corn Oil (19.12%):    109.85 g | 3.87 oz | 0.24 lbs | 8.14 tbsp | 0.51 cups
Total (169.3%):   972.7 g | 34.31 oz | 2.14 lbs | TF = 0.1213

Any questions, just ask.

Loo

LOO,

What's your current oven temp and bake time for this recipe?  Bottom oven rack?  Stone or no stone?  Thanks for such a great thread.  Looking forward to trying this out!

Thanks!
BDogg

[Mick.Chicago]

Hi BdoggPizza.

I can't speak for Lou but I would probably go between 450 and 475 depending on the oven, it really can come down to your setup.  I personally cook on the middle rack and then move up to a top rack towards the end of the cooking time for some browning.

Personally I would also say no stone.   

[loowaters]

LOO,

What's your current oven temp and bake time for this recipe?  Bottom oven rack?  Stone or no stone?  Thanks for such a great thread.  Looking forward to trying this out!

Thanks!
BDogg

Depends on the pan.  If you've got a nice dark pan, go middle rack at 475-500.  I usually go 500.  Bake time varies with size.  I can do a pair of 9" pies in the oven at the same time in about 20 minutes and a few minutes longer for a 14".  Light pan, use the stone on the bottom rack that's been preheated 45mins. at least at 550*.  Place directly on stone but drop oven temp to 475 or 500 when it goes in.  Cook time should be about the same.

Loo

[Jackitup]

OK, a little late in this thread but looking thru some of it here at work and had to ask, did anyone else notice something odd when Mark Malnati weighed his "off the chart" heavy pizza?? Note the scale was what looks to be a gram scale . Not that it's not a great pie I'm sure but why the little shell game with the scale? Just thought it was funny.   http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10161.msg88861.html#msg88861   

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cH_ymnmarRU" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cH_ymnmarRU</a>

Jon

[BDoggPizza]

Depends on the pan.  If you've got a nice dark pan, go middle rack at 475-500.  I usually go 500.  Bake time varies with size.  I can do a pair of 9" pies in the oven at the same time in about 20 minutes and a few minutes longer for a 14".  Light pan, use the stone on the bottom rack that's been preheated 45mins. at least at 550*.  Place directly on stone but drop oven temp to 475 or 500 when it goes in.  Cook time should be about the same.

Loo

Hey Loo, thanks for the reply.  I use a 13 inch deep dish stacking pan pre-seasoned with tuff kote (PSTK) pan from pizza tools 'http://www.pizzatools.com/Deep_Dish_Stacking/30873/subgrouping.htm'  With your old recipe, I have been doing 450 degrees on the middle rack with no stone and cooking for about 25 to 28 minutes until crust is golden brown.  So you're experience with this recipe is to bump up the temp to 475 degrees or even 500 degrees?  Any preference as to 475 or 500?  Want to make sure the crust comes out right and not burnt on the bottom but yet still has the great crunch.  Any other tips and advice would be greatly appreciated by anyone.

Thanks again!

B-Dogg

[loowaters]

I actually cook at 490*.  Don't ask.

Loo

[vcb]

I actually cook at 490*.  Don't ask.

Loo

Hey, Loo! Why do you cook at... heh heh , never mind.   

I usually preheat to 500 (or hotter) and then knock the temp down to 450-475 after putting the pizza in.

Halfway thru baking, I rest a big sheet of foil over the pan (or on the rack above) to shield any toppings from burning,
then optionally pull out the foil in the last 5-10 minutes if I want to char the pepperoni.

For a 12 inch pizza, it usually takes 35 minutes.
I give a 14 inch pizza about 40 minutes.

[BTB]

My practice is near identical to Ed's, but one must jump in and see what's best for themselves because no two home ovens are the same. But I tend to use a rack level lower than midlevel as that works best for me.  Sometimes instead of the foil, I turn on my oven's convection feature (i.e. hot air fan) to brown up the top of the pizza somewhat near the end of the bake period for just a few minutes, but the foil technique is a great one to avoid an "underdone" pizza that appears done but the crust of which is really not done.  I know this often disappoints many a deep dish pizzamaker when the top of the pizza appears well done, but the crust turns out to be insufficiently baked.  
 
While in Chicago recently, I stocked up on some of my favorite Lou Malnati's tomatoe's for deep dish pizzamaking.
 
                                                                                               --BTB

[BDoggPizza]

I am so confused with all these different oven temps.  I have seen oven temps being suggested from 425* to 500*.  That's a big spread!  I bake at 450* on the middle rack with no stone and I wouldn't want the bottom of my crust any more done or it would be almost burnt.  If you want the crust to cook all the way through and get good and biscuit like, wouldn't a lower temp be better than a higher temp?  I am affraid to go higher in fear of burning the bottom before the crust is properly cooked through.  What is the benefit of going higher than 450*?  Anyone have any ideas or theories?  I'd be interested to know.

Thanks!
BDogg

[BTB]

I am so confused with all these different oven temps.

I think all who commented are thinking of what temperature delivers for them the best end product . . . a tasty and delicious deep dish pizza that best matches what they've experienced, is their ideal, and which they love the most.  But I can't help but believe that what all think is best for them is just a "guideline" for others.  Ovens do vary a lot.  And some like a more crisp pizza crust in one respect, but others like it a little differently in another respect.  Trial and error to each person is what must be experienced. We're all just giving some of our own personal tips and thoughts, which may or may not apply to others.

I'll give you another example of how home ovens vary.  I have two homes and the oven at my "winter" home has a GE Profile electric oven with I think 8 or 9 oven rack levels, which is above average number for a home oven.  Further, I have NO heating elements that are apparent in the oven at all, hence I can cook or bake a pizza on the very bottom level (or often on the next to the bottom level) without burning the crust (unless, of course, I leave it in for an exorbitant amount of time).  Not so in my summer house where those brightly glowing red-hot heating elements exist out in the open on the bottom of the oven.  Baking a pizza is vastly different between the two.

Try making a pizza at 425 degrees F and try an identical pizza at 475 degrees (or higher) and see what appeals to you and yours the most.

                                                                          --BTB

[BDoggPizza]

I think all who commented are thinking of what temperature delivers for them the best end product . . . a tasty and delicious deep dish pizza that best matches what they've experienced, is their ideal, and which they love the most.  But I can't help but believe that what all think is best for them is just a "guideline" for others.  Ovens do vary a lot.  And some like a more crisp pizza crust in one respect, but others like it a little differently in another respect.  Trial and error to each person is what must be experienced. We're all just giving some of our own personal tips and thoughts, which may or may not apply to others.

I'll give you another example of how home ovens vary.  I have two homes and the oven at my "winter" home has a GE Profile electric oven with I think 8 or 9 oven rack levels, which is above average number for a home oven.  Further, I have NO heating elements that are apparent in the oven at all, hence I can cook or bake a pizza on the very bottom level (or often on the next to the bottom level) without burning the crust (unless, of course, I leave it in for an exorbitant amount of time).  Not so in my summer house where those brightly glowing red-hot heating elements exist out in the open on the bottom of the oven.  Baking a pizza is vastly different between the two.

Try making a pizza at 425 degrees F and try an identical pizza at 475 degrees (or higher) and see what appeals to you and yours the most.

                                                                          --BTB

BTB - Thanks for the good advice.  Makes sense.

BDogg

[Coletrain]

Hello everyone. Long time visitor of this site.  I have made a tweaked DMK source pizza many times but can someone kind of tell me the measurements for this formula for a 12 inch pan?  I don't currently have a scale.  I haven't been making deep dish in awhile but I'm intrigued.  Seems like a fat boy friendly recipe......... OIL 

[Coletrain]

Another question is there a huge difference when using say Gold Medal Bread flour instead of AP?  I prefer using bread flour for NY crusts.

[DKM]

Hello everyone. Long time visitor of this site.  I have made a tweaked DMK source pizza many times but can someone kind of tell me the measurements for this formula for a 12 inch pan?  I don't currently have a scale.  I haven't been making deep dish in awhile but I'm intrigued.  Seems like a fat boy friendly recipe......... OIL 

It may be this weekened, but I think I have something with measurements instead of weights.

Another question is there a huge difference when using say Gold Medal Bread flour instead of AP?  I prefer using bread flour for NY crusts.

The longer you mix it the bigger the difference.  Bread flour has high protein and makes the crust more "bready" .