### Author Topic: A real deep dish video  (Read 44124 times)

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#### loowaters

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##### Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2010, 11:41:38 PM »
DKM, using the mass volume conversion tool of red.november I got 22.94% on the oil (if actually 6 full quarts) and 45.88% for water (if actually 3 gallons).  This was kinda huge for us.  Thanks for posting a link to the vid.

Loo
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#### vcb

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##### Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2010, 02:01:03 AM »
DKM, using the mass volume conversion tool of red.november I got 22.94% on the oil (if actually 6 full quarts) and 45.88% for water (if actually 3 gallons).  This was kinda huge for us.  Thanks for posting a link to the vid.

Loo

Okay , so 4qts = 1 gallon right?
12 quarts of water to 6 quarts of oil?

Can that water percentage be right?
-- Ed Heller -aka- VCBurger -- Real Deep Dish - Deep Dish 101
http://www.realdeepdish.com/
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#### loowaters

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##### Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #27 on: January 31, 2010, 07:40:30 AM »
Okay , so 4qts = 1 gallon right?
12 quarts of water to 6 quarts of oil?

Can that water percentage be right?

I sure think so.  With all that oil you need to keep the hydration down a bit and 45.88% isn't really wet.  Also, it follows the K.I.S.S theory of nice round numbers for any kid to make dough if need be.
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#### BTB

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##### Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #28 on: January 31, 2010, 08:56:07 AM »
Good discussion here.  Thanks Dev for starting it up.

The 9" deep dish pizzas that one gets shipped to them from Malnati's is not as "full" and thick as the one you get in the restaurant.  I've had so very many of their pizzas, both at their restaurants and shipped frozen in the aluminum tins.  That's one thing you notice right away . . . the "mass" isn't quite there with the frozen pizzas, but they still are ". . . the next best thing to . . ." and still very good.  I think you have to chalk that up to the frozen pizza industry methodology.

Checking back on many of my recipes for a 9" size deep dish, the dough weight normally has been around 12.5 ounces, but I often cut some out to make the crust a little thinner, so I would guess typically 11 to 12 ounces.  With the cheese, I don't use a full 8 ounce package of sliced mozzarella, usually about 5 or 6 slices and some slices of provolone in pieces on top of that.  So I would estimate the cheese to be 7 to 8 ounces.  And when I often feel "cheesy," another couple ounces or so.  My guesstimate on the sauce is based on my picturing my typical use of a 28 ounce can of 6 in 1.  I use less than a half -- est. 7 to 10 ounces -- but most often then add some small diced tomatoes which appears to me to then look and taste much closer to a Malnati's or Due's pizza.  So I would guess the total tomato weight to be in the range of 8 to 12 ounces.

Like most things, pizzamaking is an art -- not a science -- and I "eyeball" things a lot as I put the pizza together.  So along with adding some grated cheese and spices on top of the pizza, my estimated total unbaked weight is in the range of 26 to 32 ounces.

Can . . . anyone . . . venture a guess on the amount of sauce used for the pizza in the video?
I think that they put on a light amount of sauce.  You can see that on the video esp. when the cheese shines through.  Compare that to the regular amount of sauce they put on my 9" pizza when I last visited Malnati's headquarters restaurant in Lincolnwood last summer in the picture below.

--BTB
« Last Edit: January 31, 2010, 09:02:35 AM by BTB »

#### Pete-zza

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##### Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #29 on: January 31, 2010, 10:04:59 AM »
The gal who lifted the bag of flour in the video seemed to do it with ease. That would lead me to believe that the bag of flour is around 25 pounds rather than 50 pounds. It seems to me from my reading over at the PMQ Think Tank forum that 25 pounds is a standard weight for flour and is the next step down from a 50 pound bag. I did searches this morning over at the PMQTT, and I did not get any hits for 30 pounds. I got several for 25 pounds and a lot more for 50 pounds. Of course, Malnati's could have their supplier bag the flour in any size that Malnati's might request.

Loo, I have found that losses during baking can vary quite a bit from one style of pizza to another and also based on what is on the pizza. Also, the numbers I have observed are for a home oven. I have no idea as to what the comparable numbers would be for commercial ovens.

Peter

#### DKM

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##### Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #30 on: January 31, 2010, 10:25:02 AM »
It depends on who they get their flour from and how "custom" it is.  When I worked for Pizza Inn we would get 32 lbs of flour for thin crust.  It was later changed to 25 lbs.

I agree on the K.I.S.S.  That's why most of the pizza places I worked meassured the water and oil by volume.  It is easier to tell a new person fill the oil to the 6 qt line and water to the 3 gallon line.  I remember we used two ounce ladle to messure sauce, oil, and other things and the recipes were written that way.  So 2 oz or oil was by ladle not scale.

On the cheese, I turned up the speaker here at noticed that the guy showing them how to make the pizza is who told her how much cheese.  5 on the bottom 4 on top. He told her how much after asking what she was putting on it.  That goes with Marc saying the amount of cheese depends on the toppings.
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#### loowaters

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##### Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #31 on: January 31, 2010, 10:26:32 AM »
Peter, I don't think the girls do any of the heavy lifting in the early part of the video.  I think the guy helping them adds the water and does that whisking.  He also adds the oil.  Someone that's never done it before wouldn't head in as aggressively with the whisk.  I also think he handles the flour and my thought was the opposite, he does squat down a bit to pick it up knowing that it's not too light.  Also, the bags laying in the background look like they'd hold 10 of my 5 lb. grocery store bought bags of flour.

Loo
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#### Pete-zza

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##### Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #32 on: January 31, 2010, 10:52:42 AM »
Loo,

You are correct. I will have to pay closer attention to what is going on in the video  .

Peter

#### loowaters

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##### Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #33 on: January 31, 2010, 11:31:50 AM »
Your fine work in other areas excuses you.
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#### Pete-zza

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##### Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #34 on: January 31, 2010, 12:10:29 PM »
I was looking at another Malnati's video that we have seen before, at , mainly to see how much cheese is placed into what appears to be a 9" cheese deep-dish at Malnati's. The video shows the pizza maker, Danny, placing four slices into the pan but the video then skips ahead, at which point the video shows Danny with what looks to be one slice left in his hand. So, one can only guess how many slices actually end up in the pan although it doesn't look like nine slices to my aging eyeballs. Maybe the pizza Danny made in the video isn't a "regulation" pizza either.

It looks like roughly a ladle full of sauce is placed over the cheese. I noticed also Danny says that Parmesan cheese, not Romano cheese, is sprinkled over the pizza. Also, it will be noted that Danny bakes the pizza in the oven at the second level from the top without moving it to an upper deck.

Peter

#### DKM

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##### Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #35 on: January 31, 2010, 12:12:13 PM »
I think that they put on a light amount of sauce.  You can see that on the video esp. when the cheese shines through.  Compare that to the regular amount of sauce they put on my 9" pizza when I last visited Malnati's headquarters restaurant in Lincolnwood last summer in the picture below.

The guy helping them tells them they have too much sauce at fist and takes some off with his hand.  I think she doesn't spread it evenly.

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#### DKM

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##### Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #36 on: January 31, 2010, 12:21:34 PM »
Looks like at least a 6 oz ladle.

In Peter's link he (Danny) also states that the amount of cheese is based on the size and toppings.  I wonder if 5 slices on the bottom is the cheese for the pizza and 4 on top if for the "topping" of cheese?

Peter, I noticed on the link you posted there is an edit when he is taking it out of the oven so we can't tell if he is taking it straight to the cutting table or moving it.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2010, 12:26:47 PM by DKM »
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#### pizzard

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##### Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #37 on: January 31, 2010, 12:54:56 PM »
Hi all!  I'm new to the message board, and wanted to share my observations.

First, these girls are adorable.  I do think they are employees.  When one of them is cutting the pizza she says "They don't trust me with the knives, remember?"  I think they up and put this together, and look at the buzz they stirred on this board, so kudos to Sarah and her friends.

Going in order of the video:

- Not a lot of yeast for the  amount of "dry ingredients" added.  This suggests why there is little rise during cooking...something I always seem to have a problem with.

- A note on oil.  First, if you look at the ingredients list of a Lou's sausage pizza its says Crust (flour, water, corn oil, yeast)...if you look at the ingredients of a cheese pizza it says Crust (flour, water, corn oil, olive oil, yeast)...hmmm.  Why the discrepancy?  (I saved both so I'm looking right at them as I'm typing this.)

- The oil container is most definitely 6 qts.

- I too thought that a 50 pound bag would be too much for one of these girls to lift.  After looking more closely at the video, it is definitely a male employee doing the lifting.  You see this employee in the far background later in the video when she is being shown how to flip the pizza out of the pan.

- Question...was the pan greased when the dough was put in?  It seems that there was no oil in the pan, but perhaps shortening, or some other type of grease that is wiped in.

- The on screen message regarding the tomato sauce..."Only crushed tomatoes, nothing else."  I don't think they added oregano to their pizza...oops.  I thought is was cute that it never dawned on her to use the ladle to spread the tomato sauce.

- Lastly, did you notice the number of ovens in this kitchen?  This was clearly a slow night, or before the restaurant opened, so why not make a video?

#### loowaters

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##### Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #38 on: January 31, 2010, 01:41:54 PM »
The yeast amount is tough to guess becaue the mixer bowl is so big, but 4 oz. of IDY would be .50% in the formula.  That looks and sounds reasonable.

Edit:  Four ounces is the size of a jar of yeast that one would get at a grocery store.  Again, K.I.S.S.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2010, 05:22:14 PM by loowaters »
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#### dbgtr

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##### Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #39 on: January 31, 2010, 02:18:11 PM »
One thing I noticed was how well proofed the portioned dough balls appeared.

#### BTB

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##### Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #40 on: January 31, 2010, 03:11:48 PM »
And notice how the proofed dough balls appeared so very non-greasy or non-oily.  Deep dish dough often times appears oily because of the high level of oil in it, esp. a day or so later when one refrigerates the dough.  I find myself most often adding flour to the finished dough to get it to look similar to that in the Malnati's video.

#### loowaters

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##### Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #41 on: January 31, 2010, 03:28:41 PM »
I think a longer knead will give you a less oily looking and feeling dough ball.
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#### Pete-zza

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##### Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #42 on: January 31, 2010, 03:47:47 PM »
I revisited the video that DKM found with a view to trying to determine which Hobart mixer is shown in the video. I suspected that it was one of the old 802 workhorses with a bowl capacity of 80 quarts. There used to be a mixer capacity chart at the Hobart website but, because the website was revamped by Hobart, I was not able to find the capacity chart at their website (my old links to the chart were dead). I suspected that Malnati's was using a Hobart mixer model that is no longer being offered by Hobart but quite possibly was still available in the used mixer market. After some effort, I managed to find a photo of a Hobart 802 at eBay, at http://cgi.ebay.com/Hobart-80QT-Commercial-Dough-Mixer-M-802_W0QQitemZ230429981207QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item35a6b27a17. That prompted me to do a search for the old Hobart capacity chart that featured the Hobart 802, which I was lucky to find (by way of Australia) at http://www.hobartfood.com.au/resources/brochure/Mixer%20Capacity%20F-7701(9-05).pdf. From that pdf document, it certainly looks like Malnati's is using the Hobart 802 and, from the first page of the pdf document, it appears to be able to handle from 85-155 pounds of pizza dough (depending on the specific type of pizza dough, type of flour, hydration, etc.). I also know from what I have read at the PMQ Think Tank that an 80-qt. Hobart mixer can accept a 50-lb. bag of flour.

One will also see another model in the capacity chart, the V1401, that looks the same as the 802, but it will be noted that the bowl is larger than for the 802.

If we assume that a 50-lb. bag of flour is being used by Malnati's in the video, the water and oil numbers mentioned earlier start to make more sense.

Peter

#### DKM

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##### Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #43 on: January 31, 2010, 03:59:52 PM »
First, these girls are adorable.  I do think they are employees.  When one of them is cutting the pizza she says "They don't trust me with the knives, remember?"  I think they up and put this together, and look at the buzz they stirred on this board, so kudos to Sarah and her friends.

I say that all the time about knifes;)

They are being too suprivised to be employees.  The "helper" has to fix the holes and pull the dough up the sides, he tells her how much cheese, that she put on too much sauce, shows her how to flip the pizza out of the pan.

If they had only known the activity they would set off here.
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#### loowaters

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##### Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #44 on: February 01, 2010, 07:52:20 AM »
I ran a few numbers on the oil content with six quarts as the amount of total oil and broke it down to a blend of 95/5 corn oil to olive oil.  The blend is a ratio that has been discussed on here before and may not be accurate. Well, even with olive oil being heavier than corn oil it didn't make much difference from the numbers I came up with in reply #25.

It breaks down to:

4943g corn oil or 22 3/4 c + 2.46 t
260 g olive oil or 1 c + 3 T + .57 t

22 3/4 + 1c = 23 3/4 c
3 T (or 9 t) + 2.46 t + .57 t = (12.03 t or 4.01 T or basically 2 oz.) 1/4 c

Voila!  We're back to 24 c or 6 quarts of oil giving us a baker's percentage of:

21.795% corn oil
1.1475 olive oil

It's possible that they could round things off by first placing 1 1/4 c or even 1 1/2 c of olive oil in the bucket and then topping to 6 quarts with corn oil, or the very likely scenario of having the oil blended for them so measuring olive oil isn't necessary at all.  Of course those factors will change the baker's percentages for us trying to duplicate this formula.

I'm sensing a trial with these percentages this week by several of us.

I've already run the comparitive numbers and they don't change too much for a 12" with a TF of .1218 (1.5% bowl residue)

My recipe:

AP Flour    328g
water        148
corn oil       62
olive oil       13
idy              2

Formula based on info gleaned from this video:

AP Flour    327g
water       150
corn oil      71
olive oil       4
idy             2

I want to repeat to DKM, great find on this video.  It made for some great discussion and also confirmed quite a bit of what we've already been doing here.  Thanks to the girls for making the video.  Something tells me if Marc Malnati sees this discussion he'll have YouTube taking that video down rather quickly.

Loo
« Last Edit: February 01, 2010, 08:02:22 AM by loowaters »
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#### DKM

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##### Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #45 on: February 01, 2010, 08:03:08 AM »
Loo,

How long are you going to mix it?

I plan use the % I posted above based on my own experiments.

I hope the video doesn't get pulled, though I do worry about it.

Let's get cooking!
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#### loowaters

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##### Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #46 on: February 01, 2010, 08:11:26 AM »
My knead time, with the kinda sorry KA "C" hook, will probably be 4 minutes on 2 speed.  I'll adjust based on how well it's working the dough.

Loo
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#### BTB

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##### Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #47 on: February 01, 2010, 08:18:17 AM »
Any baker's percentages so I can do a 9"?                --BTB

#### loowaters

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##### Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #48 on: February 01, 2010, 08:20:42 AM »
BTB

202
93
44
2
1

Have at it.

I guess I could post the entire formula

AP Flour     100%
Water         45.88
Corn Oil       21.795
Olive Oil        1.1475
IDY               .50

TF = .12 (.1218 w/ 1.5% bowl residue addition)

Loo
« Last Edit: February 01, 2010, 08:25:44 AM by loowaters »
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#### Randy

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##### Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #49 on: February 02, 2010, 09:47:29 AM »
I know this will really taste good but what a ton of oil.  Don't misunderstand my comment, I would love to make this pizza version but I just have to cut back somewhere even though the one I make is sure not on the weight watchers list.

I will watch for the pictures to come and drool from afar.

Randy
« Last Edit: February 02, 2010, 09:51:16 AM by Randy »