Author Topic: Reverse Engineering UPN Dough  (Read 28212 times)

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Offline rcloud

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Re: Reverse Engineering UPN Dough
« Reply #80 on: September 08, 2010, 03:44:48 PM »
I don't have enough posts to be able to post the working link, but if you go to the Serious Eats Talk section and hit Older Posts you should see the thread.


Offline dmcavanagh

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Re: Reverse Engineering UPN Dough
« Reply #81 on: September 08, 2010, 05:28:16 PM »
It just worked for me!
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cornicione54

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Re: Reverse Engineering UPN Dough
« Reply #82 on: September 10, 2010, 12:03:55 AM »
At the risk of flogging a dead horse, I watched this video recently: http://www.snagfilms.com/films/title/pure_and_simple/

At about the 1 minute mark, it shows Mangieri mixing up what appears to be a preferment. The container looks similar to the one which is emptied in the "Naturally Risen" video when mixing the final dough.
Notice how the sides of the container in the "Pure and Simple" video show the remnants of what appears to be a previous ferment/rise. Of course there are many ways to interpret this, but one might consider the possibility that the remnants on the side of the container are from the previous week which end up "seeding" the first preferment of the next. I know it's not really all that important at the end of the day exactly how the UPN dough is made but there are my random thoughts for what they're worth! :D

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Reverse Engineering UPN Dough
« Reply #83 on: September 10, 2010, 09:10:52 PM »
At the risk of flogging a dead horse, I watched this video recently: http://www.snagfilms.com/films/title/pure_and_simple/

At about the 1 minute mark, it shows Mangieri mixing up what appears to be a preferment. The container looks similar to the one which is emptied in the "Naturally Risen" video when mixing the final dough.
Notice how the sides of the container in the "Pure and Simple" video show the remnants of what appears to be a previous ferment/rise.

I noted that observation and my take on it in the original post of this thread.

Craig
Pizza is not bread.

Offline briterian

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Re: Reverse Engineering UPN Dough
« Reply #84 on: February 02, 2011, 07:19:39 AM »
Can someone point me to a yeast based upn dough recipe?   I didn't see it here.   Thanks

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Reverse Engineering UPN Dough
« Reply #85 on: February 02, 2011, 08:14:54 AM »
Can someone point me to a yeast based upn dough recipe?   I didn't see it here.   Thanks

Do you mean IDY or the like? If so, you would probably need to create a poolish for the preferment, instead of using the Ischia culture-based approach outlined by Craig.

John

Offline briterian

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Re: Reverse Engineering UPN Dough
« Reply #86 on: February 02, 2011, 09:41:14 AM »
Correct.   I'd like to do a preferment with idy (bread yeast).

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Reverse Engineering UPN Dough
« Reply #87 on: February 02, 2011, 09:57:01 AM »
Try substituting the Ischia culture in the formula Craig gives with .04% IDY, and cut the preferment down to 12 hours at room temp. Also, take out the salt from the pre and add it back into the final dough.

John
« Last Edit: February 03, 2011, 03:39:34 PM by dellavecchia »

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Reverse Engineering UPN Dough
« Reply #88 on: February 02, 2011, 10:30:22 AM »
Please let us know how it comes out.
Pizza is not bread.

Offline briterian

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Re: Reverse Engineering UPN Dough
« Reply #89 on: February 02, 2011, 02:29:54 PM »
Thanks John.  I'll give this a shot.  Thanks for the tip on leaving out the salt.  This approach almost becomes Norma's recipe of Lehmans preferment recipe which has about 36 pages of content on this forum...biggest difference being no refrigeration (and no sugar) which helps me speed up the process of not thinking 3-5 days ahead of time that I want some pizza.


Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Reverse Engineering UPN Dough
« Reply #90 on: February 02, 2011, 03:03:04 PM »
The goal of the project was more about teasing out and fitting together all the available pieces of information to understand and to (do my best to) faithfully recreate the UPN method than it was about fine-tuning a dough for my personal situation the way Norma has. That being said, I think it makes a pretty good pizza.

Craig
Pizza is not bread.

Offline briterian

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Re: Reverse Engineering UPN Dough
« Reply #91 on: February 03, 2011, 02:24:55 PM »
Hi John,
Did you mean .4% IDY or .04%?  I did .04% on the lehman calculator and ~0.04 tsp which doesn't seem right for a single pizza.   If I follow Craig's recipe on page one, how much of a tsp of yeast would you recommend?   TxCraig1 - what type of oven or baking procedure do you follow? Your pizza looks awesome.

Brian

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Reverse Engineering UPN Dough
« Reply #92 on: February 03, 2011, 03:11:55 PM »
TxCraig1 - what type of oven or baking procedure do you follow? Your pizza looks awesome.

Here is my oven set-up. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9614.0.html

Thanks for the kind words on the pies.

Craig
Pizza is not bread.

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Reverse Engineering UPN Dough
« Reply #93 on: February 03, 2011, 04:06:23 PM »
Hi John,
Did you mean .4% IDY or .04%?  I did .04% on the lehman calculator and ~0.04 tsp which doesn't seem right for a single pizza.   If I follow Craig's recipe on page one, how much of a tsp of yeast would you recommend?

Brian


Brian - .04% is correct for a 12 hour poolish at room temp, but I forgot to take into account that you may need to add more to the final mix. I am not sure what that could be, as I have have only attempted this recipe using the starter as Craig has outlined. This thread may help you with a poolish-based preferment:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7225.msg124913.html#msg124913

But as you probably know, this is no longer resembling a UPN dough.

John
« Last Edit: February 03, 2011, 04:14:51 PM by dellavecchia »

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Reverse Engineering UPN Dough
« Reply #94 on: February 03, 2011, 04:14:57 PM »
Brian,

I tried to PM you, but your inbox is full.

UPN made 10oz balls, best I could tell. The recipe makes 1.7kg (assuming no waste). If you make 10oz balls (~280g), you should get 6. If I remember right, the pies in the pictures were a little larger than that - closer to 325g which would yield 5 pies and a little extra dough. I think the pies in the picture were about 14" before baking.

Craig
Pizza is not bread.

Offline briterian

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Re: Reverse Engineering UPN Dough
« Reply #95 on: February 03, 2011, 04:22:27 PM »
Thanks Craig.  Didn't even know about my inbox...so thanks for that heads up for me to clean things up there.  LI'll go with 5 and see how it works.  Brian

Offline briterian

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Re: Reverse Engineering UPN Dough
« Reply #96 on: February 03, 2011, 04:25:17 PM »
Thanks John for that post/link to Peter's thing. Sounds dead on (minus the olive oil) with what I want to do and I'll make sure to not link it back to any type of attempt of doing UPN.   :D

Offline LaheyDisciplenNica

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Re: Reverse Engineering UPN Dough
« Reply #97 on: February 21, 2011, 01:38:49 PM »
Hey Guys appreciate the work your doing here I really dig the love anthony shows for pizza and want to try his dough. I made a starter and hope to try making dough the day before to try this style.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Reverse Engineering UPN Dough
« Reply #98 on: February 22, 2011, 10:51:00 AM »
Hey Guys appreciate the work your doing here I really dig the love anthony shows for pizza and want to try his dough. I made a starter and hope to try making dough the day before to try this style.

Please let us know how it comes out.

Craig
Pizza is not bread.

Offline LaheyDisciplenNica

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Re: Reverse Engineering UPN Dough
« Reply #99 on: February 22, 2011, 11:29:31 PM »
Thanks for the support! I am currently creating the slice starter and plan to use for this method.

What do you think of jeffs idea for percentages with that starter.

My final (actually let's call it my current) recipe is

flour 100%
water 60%
salt 2.75%
starter (100% hydration- fed daily) 5% (to parts water)
1 hour bench rest
ball
24 cold ferment
8 room temp before use

Jeff PG

Basically my issue is in creating the pre ferm what ratio of starter should I use to flour and water and salt? It also seems to be missing the second step by Anthony in which he make the real dough from the ferment.

Here was my Idea mix starter with unknown flour and water let sit for 24 hours.
Then mix with unkown flour and water to create real dough.
Ball and let rest for specified time from first post.
Mix