Author Topic: The Rotisserie Pizza Grill  (Read 20363 times)

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Offline Tampa

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Re: The Rotisserie Pizza Grill
« Reply #25 on: June 17, 2010, 11:23:39 AM »
Jgame – YUM!  That’s my kind of pie.  I’ve got some pie questions and some oven questions, if you don’t mind.

Pie – I don’t know what you’ve got on there, but I see mushrooms and suspect red peppers, green peppers, olives?, and sausage.  Although I usually leave some exposed crust around the periphery, I like the looks so I’m trying it on the next pie.  Also, it seems you put some/all of the cheese on after the ingredients.  I’ve sampled this style before at a restaurant called Giordanos and liked it.  Now I’d like to emulate it.  What ingredients did you use?  Did you cook the veggies at all before putting on the pie?  Anything special on the cheese?

Oven – The bottom looks well-spotted and evenly cooked.  It is hard to read those IR gun photos, but I think you threw at 600F, right?  (I throw at 700F) And you have a single 15” pizza stone.  The stone looks like two stones I bought from Target on sale for $18 each.  If I’ve got that right, I might want to give your stone/grill grate idea a go.  I like the shorter warm-up time (less thermal mass) and uniform stone thickness (mine has a more irregular underside).

I wish I still had pictures of my early pies!  They didn’t look anything like this one.

Dave


Offline jgame

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Re: The Rotisserie Pizza Grill
« Reply #26 on: June 17, 2010, 01:22:24 PM »
Dave,

Here are the ingredients placed on that pie: Dei Fratelli pizza sauce, cooked sausage,  diced red pepper, diced onion, diced portabella mushroom, diced black olive these were all lightly sauteed (no oil) in a non stick skillet. For cheese I use a mix of deli slices, whole milk mozzarella and provel I cut these into 1 inch squares. For shredded cheese I use the fine texture it seems to melt better. I use the pizza blend of several cheeses. The sauce goes down on the par baked skin and then what ever I grab, no rhyme or reason. I will say it is a layering process. I also sprinkle Penzeys Pizza seasoning and fennel seed on top.
I have found if you dress pie to the edge I get less crust burn.
I like to throw at 500F but I was talking and having a beverage and the temp got a little hot. Makes everything cook faster with less top browning. To compensate I turn main burners off and side burner to high.
Target sells those stones. The stone on top is broke. It broke after I drilled a hole in it. I was working on making a LBG.
Than I saw your post and video. There was no stopping me now. I bought this gas grill to make a RPG it will not be used for anything else.
Ultra high temps may be possible with my RPG. The dough I use (ultra thin cracker) likes the 500F range.
Hope to post a video on youtube soon.
And thanks for the questions and input.
jgame

Offline Tampa

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Re: The Rotisserie Pizza Grill
« Reply #27 on: June 17, 2010, 04:19:38 PM »
jgame, I think you should be able to get 850F in 40-45 minutes just like me.  I get there with one underside burner + the IR burner.  I'm not sure why you would want to cook at such a high temp, but I have yet to work on Nearlypolitan.  Given the looks of your pie, I'll have to give that par bake and layering a try.

BTW, I saw a note that the EggHeads (LBE thread) started using a lazy susan on the stone.  I'm going to check it out for ideas.

Offline jgame

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Re: The Rotisserie Pizza Grill
« Reply #28 on: June 24, 2010, 09:03:12 PM »
All,
Here are some pics of a couple of RPG pies. Again ultra thin crust with a 500F or so temp.

Offline Tampa

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Rotisserie Pizza Grill Update
« Reply #29 on: July 11, 2010, 02:37:37 PM »
A couple of updates.

* After throwing 4 successive pies last night, I found that the stone temp stays around 700F with just the rotisserie burner for a considerable period of time.  That's nice because I generally throw at 700F, so I just shut off the underside burner and saunter off for a little refreshment before leisurely making another pie.  I no longer have to rush around to have a pizza ready the exact moment when the stone is ready.

* Also, I'm experimenting with another oven hood.  It turns out that my brother wants to start making pies so I'm going to build a conversion accessory for his grill.  These are "one off" items, but the resulting thermal ramp up performance should be interesting, and for me worth the effort.

* Finally, one of the forum members a while back read that I was trying to visualize convection currents inside my oven and suggested I try a “punk” – those long sticks used to start fireworks – to send a laminar stream of smoke like you sometimes see in fancy car tests.  I started thinking about this again near the 4th of July, so it seemed fitting and somewhat patriotic to pick up a dozen of those punk sticks and set them neatly around the rim of my circular pizza stone before taking video.  What did I see? Not much.

At first it was really difficult to see the gray smoke inside the stainless-steel grill with an aluminum hood.  Undaunted, I got out the flat-black grill paint and painted what I could.  What I couldn’t paint (the stone and the stainless) I covered in aluminum foil and painted that flat black.  What resulted looked like the inside of a coal mine.  Then I lit the punks and repeated the test.  This time the video was much better.  What did I see?  Nothing you wouldn’t expect.

The heat currents seem pretty uniform with the underside burner forcing air up and around the circular stone to the area above the pizza which.  Once above the stone the underside heat combines with the heat flow from the back IR burner and swiftly shoots out the front of the grill (my slot area).  I couldn’t detect any weird eddies or loss of heat around the sides.  For the smoke that “flew too close to the sun”, i.e. IR burner, the stream was gone.  That IR burner is quite hot and it seems to burn up the smoke making it invisible.

Dave

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: The Rotisserie Pizza Grill
« Reply #30 on: July 11, 2010, 03:27:50 PM »
Very cool experiment. I did something similar in my Primo oven to see the heat currents.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2010, 03:30:55 PM by Jackie Tran »

Offline Tampa

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Re: The Rotisserie Pizza Grill
« Reply #31 on: July 25, 2010, 03:11:28 PM »
Fiddle and learn.  Some time ago I added a deflector under the front half of the pizza stone to direct the bottom-burner heat towards the back.  The idea being, that if all under-stone heat went toward the back, then up and mixed with the IR burner, it would naturally all flow out the front.  It worked.  The benefit is that the stone warm up time dropped from 20 minutes to 17 minutes.  Since my pizza stone rotates, I confirmed with the laser thermometer that the stone temperature is still uniform. 

I tried another deflector mounted to the back of the grill.  (see pictures below)  The first photo shows the deflector bent slightly more aggressively than the second photo.  Wow, what a difference!  The aggressive bend chars the crust in about three minutes, leaving the underside barely cooked.  (I generally cook at 700F and the bottom takes 4-5 minutes).  The less aggressive bend works fine.  It browns the crust a little better than before.  Why?  Because the pizza rim is a little too far under the IR burner as it rotates around so the little margin of crust that is near the stone, was sometimes a little lighter in color than I like.  Larger pizzas make the problem worse because the rim sticks further under the  IR burner, resulting in a greater the margin of un-browned-ness (new word).  I think the heat up time is also improved with the rear deflector by another minute or two (more tests needed).  I might be able to throw a pie 15 minutes after start up with the two deflector mods.

In sum, I recommend the under-stone deflector pushing bottom-burner heat towards the back.  I also recommend the back deflector, but be careful with the rake angle.

Dave

Offline Fishwish

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Re: The Rotisserie Pizza Grill
« Reply #32 on: December 02, 2010, 09:40:34 AM »
Dave, you mention a little bit about how to create a manually spun turntable, can you give me more details and maybe pics? Not sure I need to use a rotisserie motor just want to be able to spin the pizza once or twice. Thanks. I may start a new post if this is too old.

Offline Tampa

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Re: The Rotisserie Pizza Grill
« Reply #33 on: December 02, 2010, 12:02:20 PM »
The best picture of my automatic setup is reply #8 on the first page of this thread (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10241.msg98734.html#msg98734).  I'm still eating pizza a couple of times per week and have not changed anything in a long time.  Frankly, it just works.

If you are just looking for a few spins, I'd use a cordierite stone, find the center point on the underside, and use a masonary bit to drill an indent hole, say 1/2" deep.  With that indentation, you can mount a bolt in the grill plate and the stone will rotate around that.  To be more precise, mount a bolt in the center of the grates, bolt head on the burner side (down) and locking nut on the top side.  The threaded area between the locking nut and the end of the bolt is what fits into the centering hole you drilled.  If you make the bolt "just a little proud" so that the stone just teeters on the bolt, it is an easy job to rotate the stone with a mit or stick or whatever.

Does that make sense?

Dave


Offline Tampa

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Re: The Rotisserie Pizza Grill
« Reply #34 on: January 18, 2011, 05:35:16 PM »
Quick update.  I've been fiddling with that "top-hat" shaped bronze bushing (3/8" ID from Ace Hardware).  The new "preferred" implementation is to increase the ID of that bushing from 3/8 to 13/32 using a standard drill bit.  It is just two sizes larger in a typical set.  This increase adds a nice clearance margin for high temperatures.
Dave

Offline jgame

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The Rotisserie Pizza Grill
« Reply #35 on: June 26, 2011, 11:57:26 AM »
Attached are photos of the upgrade I have done to the RPG. 1. Added firebricks on sides and top of metal pizza oven. 2. Removed the rear rotisserie burner and mounted it on the top of oven. I feel this upgrade saves on fuel and gives me control over top browning.
jgame

Offline Tampa

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Re: The Rotisserie Pizza Grill
« Reply #36 on: June 26, 2011, 01:18:40 PM »
jgame,

Good for you!  I've often thought about reorienting the rotisserie burner.  I know my setup is a skosh less efficient that I'd like it to be and now you have me thinking again.  Thanks for posting.

Dave

Offline Tampa

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Re: The Rotisserie Pizza Grill
« Reply #37 on: July 21, 2012, 01:15:40 PM »
Here's my latest effort trying to mimic Tony's New Yorker in San Francisco on the Rotisserie Pizza Grill.  By drilling out the holes in the center lower burner, I've achieved greater spotting along the rim resulting in a more airy crumb structure.
Dave

Offline norma427

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Re: The Rotisserie Pizza Grill
« Reply #38 on: July 21, 2012, 01:27:16 PM »
Dave,

Looks very good!  :)

Norma

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: The Rotisserie Pizza Grill
« Reply #39 on: July 21, 2012, 01:55:07 PM »
Very nice Dave...real good work there. How many minute pie is that? Perfect cornicione,IMO, and I'm wondering if you thought the cheese could have been sliced a 'lil thinner....you're using fresh mozz, right? Thanks.
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline Tampa

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Re: The Rotisserie Pizza Grill
« Reply #40 on: July 22, 2012, 03:41:56 PM »
Thx Norma.

CB – That was a 4 minute pie.  I love the subtle comment about the cheese.  (I know, it looks like cheese is all over the place.)  Turns out on Tony’s “New Yorker” they put the moz down first, then sauce, then ricotta blobs, and finally sausage and pepperoni.  The excess cheese is mostly ricotta -- an addiction problem with my daughter.  The moz was homemade moz.

Dave

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: The Rotisserie Pizza Grill
« Reply #41 on: July 22, 2012, 09:34:13 PM »
Thx Norma.

CB – That was a 4 minute pie.  I love the subtle comment about the cheese.  (I know, it looks like cheese is all over the place.)  Turns out on Tony’s “New Yorker” they put the moz down first, then sauce, then ricotta blobs, and finally sausage and pepperoni.  The excess cheese is mostly ricotta -- an addiction problem with my daughter.  The moz was homemade moz.

Dave
Dave,

Ha!  That is funny....especially since I didn't even know there was ricotta on that pie. It was just that I kept looking an looking at that great pizza and couldn't help but think that if only the cheese was a 'lil leaner it would have had that "ghost" look to the cheese....you know, where it sorta mixes in transparently with the sauce. I see that a lot on Craig's masterpieces and it really looks delicious.
Please tell your daughter she's mess'in up my pie's man!   ;D
Looking forward to your next....great work you're doing, thanks.

Bob
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"


Offline Tampa

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Re: The Rotisserie Pizza Grill
« Reply #42 on: July 23, 2012, 08:31:13 AM »
Thanks for the kind words Bob.

Offline Tampa

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Re: The Rotisserie Pizza Grill goes VPN
« Reply #43 on: September 03, 2012, 12:41:02 PM »
I made some mods to the RPG by getting a new replacement burner and increasing the gas flow.  The heat increase was more dramatic than anticipated.  Instead of a 4-5 minute bake with one bottom burner and the IR burner on high, the new bake time is more like 1:30 for HG flour and 2 minutes for double zero.  (Of course I could always turn the the temp down, but what's the fun in that?) 

In yesterday's test with Bobino, we baked two "double zero" pies and one Kyrol high-gluten pie on my cordierite stone.  Below are a few pictures of the results.  Note: Don't read the titles on the last two pictures, and if you do, PM your thoughts to Bobino.  He use to live in NY, but he abandoned me during the baking.

Dave


Offline slybarman

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Re: The Rotisserie Pizza Grill
« Reply #44 on: September 03, 2012, 01:27:13 PM »
That a nice pie! Good job.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: The Rotisserie Pizza Grill
« Reply #45 on: September 03, 2012, 01:36:05 PM »
Pretty awesome looking pies Dave and Bob.

Craig
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Offline Bobino414

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Re: The Rotisserie Pizza Grill
« Reply #46 on: September 03, 2012, 04:13:17 PM »
Craig and Sly thanks for the kind words.

After Dave tweaked his heat source we decided to try it out with a 100% 00 flour dough.  In the past Dave's dough was was either high gluten or high gluten mix.  I made the first two doughs (00) using a modification of John Dellavecchia's work flow.

Dave's oven was amazing, from ambient temp to 800 degrees in less than 15 minutes.

The pictures do not do the pies justice.  The leoparding was set against a creamy white dough background, not the brownish color as appears in the picture.  The crust was light, flavorful, and very tender.  Topped with San Marzanos, fresh basil, K salt, evoo, and fresh mozz from Polly-O curd.

The cheese was problematic as I was concerned it might burn before the crust was finished.  I purposely used tall clumps of cheese to slow down the burn but it was only  partially successful.  I wonder if the pie were baked 30 seconds, removed from the oven, cheese clumps added and back into the oven to finish if this would be successful?  Any help here would be appreciated.

The last pie was a N.Y. slice style that I have been successful with in my deck oven (650 sub 4 minute)  Clearly the intensity of heat in his oven is too great for this to be successful (read:  challenge). lol

Bob


Offline lennyk

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Re: The Rotisserie Pizza Grill
« Reply #47 on: September 04, 2012, 04:41:31 AM »
This is a nice setup you have there.

How much strain is the rotisserie motor under ?
where did you get the replacement IR burner ?

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: The Rotisserie Pizza Grill
« Reply #48 on: September 04, 2012, 08:33:30 AM »
Dave,

I would greatly appreciate it if you could link me to any turntable mod sites. Or was this something that you came up with. In particular, I'm really interested in the first design you were running here. I am needing something for an LBE build and don't see how I can do your bottom motor mount design. I'm using the same burner as you.
Thanks so much.

Bob
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline Tampa

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Re: The Rotisserie Pizza Grill
« Reply #49 on: September 04, 2012, 11:36:45 AM »
From LennyK
Quote
How much strain is the rotisserie motor under ? where did you get the replacement IR burner ?

The rotisserie motor is under almost zero load.  I posted earlier that I hogged out the bushing a little with a drill so there was adequate clearance to handle the relative diferences in expansion coefficients between the stainless drive shaft and bronze top-hat bushing.  That helped a lot.  I do take the drive shaft out every 5-10 bakes and wipe it off, but otherwise, it just works.  The replacement burner was not IR, it was the underside burner.  I got that from the bbqfactory on ebay.  The key point here is that increasing the underside burner made a significant difference to the topside head w/o changing the IR burner.

From CB
Quote
link me to any turntable mod sites. Or was this something that you came up with. In particular, I'm really interested in the first design you were running here. I am needing something for an LBE build and don't see how I can do your bottom motor mount design. I'm using the same burner as you.

I don't know of others in the turntable area besides jgame and creation.  It's been a while but I think I saw somenone in the LBE thread rotating by hand and then noticed that I have a rotisserie motor that's never been used in my grill.

You don't want my first design - it's much more complicated and problematic, especially in high temperature environments like LBE. 

Have you ever noticed the convection fan in modern ovens?  They have the motor located outside the hot environment and the bearing outside the heat then just expose the shaft and blade to the heat.  I think that's what you want and it's similar to what I'm using.  I'm not an LBE expert but I do try to follow their foolishness (and contribute my own whenever possible).  I'd locate the burner more toward the back wall instead of the usual center/bottom location.  The rotisserie shaft would be biased toward the front wall in keeping with the usual location of the pizza stone.  I'd mount the rotisserie motor below the egg and run the SS driveshaft up to the center of the stone.  Keep in mind that when the stone is rotating, the surface temperature will be roughly uniform so the flame nolonger has to be centered.  Try to keep the bronze Tophat bushing out of the direct flame - but I would start with a drilled out bronze bushing.  (Mine sees a lot of heat although it's not sitting at the end of a propane torch.)  Put a shield around the bushing if you need to or investigate ceramic bushings.  I think they are using ceramics in automotive turbochargers.

Or you could just go the easy/unmotorized way.  Drill a small indentation into the center of the pizza stone and secure a bolt under the stone as a pinpoint slightly proud of the surrounding surface making rotation easy.  Use a stick or spatchula to rotate the stone.  (I've posted on this elsewhere.)

Hope that helps.  We're fortunate to have a lot of bright minds in the forum so if someone has improvements to the above ideas, pls share.

Dave


 

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