Author Topic: Using High diastatic liquid malt extract  (Read 3914 times)

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Offline Coleyoni

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Using High diastatic liquid malt extract
« on: December 23, 2009, 03:50:17 PM »
Hello Everyone,

I'm trying to clone a midwest style pizza crust that is a laminated cracker crust. I know they use high diastatic liquid malt extract as their yeast activator. I understand the difference between diastatic and non-diastatic malt and how the diastatic still has the enzymes present that break down starches into sugar. A high diastatic malt in turn has more of these enzymes than low diastic.

What I don't understand is what effect these enzymes have on a pizza crust and why they use it?

Many of us from the midwest who migrated to the west coast (or elsewhere) miss the laminated thin crust pizzas that are simply unavailable out here. The wood fired oven gourmet pizza craze seems to have gone viral in my area (Portland, OR). In Portland Apizza Scholls is a great pizza but you can only eat 2 pieces of it... it's extremely heavy and chewy (and expensive!). Also, not being able to order a pie to go and waiting in cold drizzly rain to get a seat gets real old real fast! A laminated thin crust pizza you can eat an entire pie yourself. It's light and airy and tasty. So, I've been working on cloning the pizza I grew up on.

Attached is a photo of my homemade laminated thin crust pizza.

Coleyoni


Online Pete-zza

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Re: Using High diastatic liquid malt extract
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2009, 12:24:35 PM »
What I don't understand is what effect these enzymes have on a pizza crust and why they use it?

Coleyoni,

You might want to check the diastatic and nondiastatic malt entries in the forum's Pizza Glossary at http://www.pizzamaking.com/pizza_glossary.html.

Peter

Offline milo357

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Re: Using High diastatic liquid malt extract
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2009, 03:58:12 PM »
Coleyoni,

Can you give us some more details on how you made that pizza?  Particularly your dough recipe, how you got the crust that thin (and how you prepped it. Layers?) and sauce.

Thanks!

Milo

Offline Buffalo

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Re: Using High diastatic liquid malt extract
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2009, 07:40:32 PM »
Coleyoni;
I second Milo's request for sharing your formula & procedural steps if you don't mind sharing ??? ;D
Your finished pizza looks very professional and I'll bet it even tastes better than it looks...and it looks great. 
Is the crust a cracker type crust, and if so just how "crackery" is
it..does it shatter and crumble at first bite or does it just have a good
bite "snap" to it?
Again...GREAT looking pizza.
Buffalo :chef:

Offline Coleyoni

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Re: Using High diastatic liquid malt extract
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2009, 01:26:59 PM »
Milo and Buffalo,

The way you get the thin crust laminated pizza is to make your dough, let it rise a few hours, roll it out, fold it over, roll it out again, fold it over, etc... so you are creating dough layers. Then cut out a pizza skin and refrigerate it for a a day or two until you use it. When you are ready to bake your pizza, remove, dress and bake on the cold dough. I use a pizza pan and bake it at 475 degrees and then remove from pan and finish crisping on the stone.

I don't have anything to offer on the dough formulation because I don't feel it's anywhere near perfected. Right now I'm trying to learn more about diastatic malt extract and how it affects your crust. I know the science of what it does, just not what it does in the practical world.

Offline dms

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Re: Using High diastatic liquid malt extract
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2010, 05:54:20 PM »

I don't have anything to offer on the dough formulation because I don't feel it's anywhere near perfected. Right now I'm trying to learn more about diastatic malt extract and how it affects your crust. I know the science of what it does, just not what it does in the practical world.

My first thought -- and mind you, it's just speculation, informed on having eaten the sort of pizza you're after (I don't like it enough to try and make it myself, though.), and by some dough science, not tested at all -- is that the dough takes advantage of two different enzyme types that are in diastatic  malt.  One is the amylase, which breaks down starches into sugar that yeast can digest.  Second are the various proteases (which are enzymes that attack protein; in our case, gluten).

Not only does amylase provide sugar that yeast can eat, but the left over sugar inhibits gluten development in the dough (so does the sugar in the malt extract, too).  Protease would attack gluten during the rise and ferment stages.  You'd probably also want a pretty hydrated dough, so that the steam produced in baking can force the layers apart. 

Offline Coleyoni

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Re: Using High diastatic liquid malt extract
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2010, 01:39:16 PM »
Thanks DMS, one problem I'm having as I started using the high diastatic malt extract is that my crust is coming out very hard after baking... not light and saltine cracker like. I'm getting the layers but they are way to hard.. something is happening that I don't understand...

Offline dms

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Re: Using High diastatic liquid malt extract
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2010, 01:54:46 PM »
Thanks DMS, one problem I'm having as I started using the high diastatic malt extract is that my crust is coming out very hard after baking... not light and saltine cracker like. I'm getting the layers but they are way to hard.. something is happening that I don't understand...


What's your dough formula?  Is there enough fat in it to keep the dough tender? 

Offline Coleyoni

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Re: Using High diastatic liquid malt extract
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2010, 02:14:06 PM »
You'll laugh (or cry  :o) ..believe it or not the pizza I'm cloning uses crisco as their fat. I thought I would try and get close to the crust I want and then change to a different fat.

3 1/2 C Juisto hi gluten flour
1  t  IDY
1 1/2 C cold water
1.5 T diastatic malt extract syrup
2 t salt
1 T shortening

Offline GotRocks

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Re: Using High diastatic liquid malt extract
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2010, 03:13:50 PM »
Coleyoni,

Are you referring to 'Shakey's Pizza" when you say a "midwest Pizza" the picture you have provided looks exactly what I remember getting from Shakey's, and I loved the stuff too.
I often wondered if they used a beer component in their dough recipe, because it had a distinctive beer'ish taste to me, and the large burnt bubbles that could often be seen near the edges when it was served.

I would go after a classic Italian bread recipe, and run that through a sheeter to see what you come up with. as a younger man I would often have my face pressed up against the glass viewing window to the kitchen at Shakey's, and watch them take scaled dough balls, run them through the sheeter twice finish the stretch by hand, run a docker across the dough, top it, and get it baking. It was also common to see them popping the dough bubbles during the bake if they got too large.

I do not think you need to fold the dough over on itself to get that texture, I could see over working the dough causing your toughness issues though.

The flavor is where you want it, the large voids in the crust are where you want it, you just have a toughness issue to figure out.

Maybe try bumping up your hydration a little, scale the dough into proper weights, and roll them into balls for an overnight ferment. Hit them with a rolling pin, but do not fold it over across itself.

Or use a lower gluten content flour and then fold it over on itself. Maybe do 50% APF & 50% HGF and see what happens?

It has been years since I have done dough experiment work, so maybe what I am saying will not apply at all. I'm just thinking out loud
A skinny cook is not to be trusted!


Offline Coleyoni

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Re: Using High diastatic liquid malt extract
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2010, 08:47:12 PM »
Believe it or not I've never been to a Shakey's ...this is a different local joynt. But if Shakey's had that beer after taste I'll bet they were using malt extract.

Thanks for you other suggestions...  :chef:


 

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