Author Topic: Reverse Engineering DiFara's Pizzas  (Read 103801 times)

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Online TXCraig1

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Re: Reverse Engineering DiFara's Pizzas
« Reply #300 on: December 19, 2014, 03:29:06 PM »
The cut tomatoes taste fresher and brighter than the rest of sauce.  A nice contrast.
There is an underlying meaty smokiness and slighlty fatty taste to the sauce, I identify it as pork.  I'm fairly certain the sauce is cooked with a small block of pancetta and removed after.  This is what my former boss used to do as well back in the 80's. 

I would think a ham hock is more likely.
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Offline Arctic Pizza

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Re: Reverse Engineering DiFara's Pizzas
« Reply #301 on: December 19, 2014, 04:03:16 PM »
I would think a ham hock is more likely.

Makes sense, a roasted ham hock would probably be better on a commercial scale.  Dom Demarco is from Caserta, which is in Campania.  They cook pork in almost everything.







Online TXCraig1

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Re: Reverse Engineering DiFara's Pizzas
« Reply #302 on: December 19, 2014, 04:07:18 PM »
They cook pork in almost everything.

Hard to find much fault in that  ;D
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Offline Arctic Pizza

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Re: Reverse Engineering DiFara's Pizzas
« Reply #303 on: December 21, 2014, 11:46:31 PM »
Hard to find much fault in that  ;D

The 20 year minimalist trend is ending in pizza world.  Welcome back animal trans fats, indulgence and all things "bad" for you


Offline Obsauced

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Re: Reverse Engineering DiFara's Pizzas
« Reply #304 on: December 27, 2014, 12:57:30 AM »
There could very well be a blend, but I would guess it's mostly Caputo 00, or an equivalent 00 flour with maybe some hi-gluten cut in but I'd say it's 25% or less.  Also, contrary to popular belief, Caputo 00 is not a low gluten flour, it is equivalent of KABF at 12.5% protein, so it stands somewhere in the middle.  I have had Di Fara enough times in the past 10 years and twice in past week to discern a texture difference in their pies vs the vast majority of NY street pizza made with hi-gluten flour boosted with potassium bromate additive.  Unfortunately, this can't be explained or described in pictures, but by words or you'll have to just try it yourself.   Ive observed that most people on the board don't actually talk about the other senses, like taste, the bite, the texture in the mouth, and are focusing more on visual aspects.  The one obvious difference in the Di Fara crust compared to 99% of NY street pizza places is that it is not chewy and heavy.  The crust is crispy, thin but not too thin, and much lighter than most NY pizza.  If had to define on what side of the flour spectrum that Di Fara pies are at, I'd say they are more akin to what you'd expect when using an AP flour.

I did sit down interview with maggie about three years ago and they use a blend of a 00 flour and all trumps if that helps with the clone. There's nothing like Di faras in the world and it's nearly impossible to replicate it
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Offline rparker

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Re: Reverse Engineering DiFara's Pizzas
« Reply #305 on: January 21, 2015, 11:02:32 PM »
On the matter of pork, I've known two people from the Penn-NJ-NYC area to use a Boston Butt as a base meat for a meat-sauce. About the only thing I recall is that the roast was browned in the pan before other ingredients got added. This would obviously be something not for pizza, especially NY-style as I like it, but something I thought may have some relevance.

I do wonder something, though. Is there any chance that the pork-fat element in the sauce help to keep the dough and sauce elements from combining too much? Perhaps act as some sort of shield?

Offline pizzadaheim

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Re: Reverse Engineering DiFara's Pizzas
« Reply #306 on: October 28, 2015, 08:24:40 AM »
I tried DiFara pizza today. I used only italian 00 flour with 13% protein and for lower Temperatures. 16 hours dough. Fermented at room temperature. I used san marzano dop sea salt and oregano in the pizza sauce. Cheese mozzarella, grana padano, permigiano regiano.  Evoo dop. Launched bad but it tasted heavenly  :drool:

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Reverse Engineering DiFara's Pizzas
« Reply #307 on: October 28, 2015, 09:34:24 AM »
Very nice!

Peter

Offline parallei

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Re: Reverse Engineering DiFara's Pizzas
« Reply #308 on: October 28, 2015, 06:50:50 PM »
Very nice!

Peter

I'll say!  Great job.


Offline pizzadaheim

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Re: Reverse Engineering DiFara's Pizzas
« Reply #309 on: October 29, 2015, 12:34:23 PM »
Thanks Peter and Parellei

Offline Obsauced

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Re: Reverse Engineering DiFara's Pizzas
« Reply #310 on: November 03, 2015, 07:08:48 PM »
I tried DiFara pizza today. I used only italian 00 flour with 13% protein and for lower Temperatures. 16 hours dough. Fermented at room temperature. I used san marzano dop sea salt and oregano in the pizza sauce. Cheese mozzarella, grana padano, permigiano regiano.  Evoo dop. Launched bad but it tasted heavenly  :drool:

the real judgment is to invite us over so we cn chow down ;). these look outstanding
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Offline hotsawce

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Re: Reverse Engineering DiFara's Pizzas
« Reply #311 on: November 24, 2015, 12:31:00 PM »
Just chiming in, as I'm trying to develop a great cooked sauce for my squares and I loved DiFara's cooked sauce.

- Though a cooked sauce, it still has a fresh taste to it. This, to me, does not taste like a cooked marinara sauce. There is no discernible garlic taste to me. It's very well balanced. There may very well be some canned tomato being added back to the sauce.
- I did not detect any "meatiness" in the sauce. I could be wrong.

If I had to guess, probably canned tomatoes cooked with a halved onion and some herbs for a few hours, before adding some uncooked canned tomatoes back to the sauce.

4th time at Difara in a month.  Ordered a regular pie with pepperoni and I asked for some sauce on the side to eat with the pizza, and she gave it to me in a plastic cup straight from the metal pizza sauce pot on the bench. 

Few observations. 

It is definitely cooked sauce with addition of uncooked roughly cut canned tomatoes added to it.  The cut tomatoes taste fresher and brighter than the rest of sauce.  A nice contrast.
There is an underlying meaty smokiness and slighlty fatty taste to the sauce, I identify it as pork.  I'm fairly certain the sauce is cooked with a small block of pancetta and removed after.  This is what my former boss used to do as well back in the 80's.  The herbs I taste are fresh oregano, fresh basil.  I can see the herbs are chopped and larger than dried herbs.

Offline jvp123

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Re: Reverse Engineering DiFara's Pizzas
« Reply #312 on: November 24, 2015, 01:05:37 PM »
I tried DiFara pizza today. I used only italian 00 flour with 13% protein and for lower Temperatures. 16 hours dough. Fermented at room temperature. I used san marzano dop sea salt and oregano in the pizza sauce. Cheese mozzarella, grana padano, permigiano regiano.  Evoo dop. Launched bad but it tasted heavenly  :drool:

What type of yeast was used on this pie and was the basil applied before or after the bake? 
Jeff

Offline pizzadaheim

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Re: Reverse Engineering DiFara's Pizzas
« Reply #313 on: November 26, 2015, 01:38:13 PM »
What type of yeast was used on this pie and was the basil applied before or after the bake?

italians use fresh yeast most of the time. So i used fresh yeast as well. I saw a picture of difara on the net. His sauce got basil so i put basil in my sauce as well. After finish baking i putmore basil like he does

Offline pizzadaheim

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Re: Reverse Engineering DiFara's Pizzas
« Reply #314 on: November 26, 2015, 01:41:32 PM »
Here is a close shot of hia sauce

Online TXCraig1

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Re: Reverse Engineering DiFara's Pizzas
« Reply #315 on: November 26, 2015, 01:55:01 PM »
Great picture.
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Offline pizzadaheim

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Re: Reverse Engineering DiFara's Pizzas
« Reply #316 on: November 27, 2015, 08:48:42 AM »
Great picture.

indeed. Thats the picture which i am going to put on the wall of my project pizza bus


Offline pizzadaheim

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Re: Reverse Engineering DiFara's Pizzas
« Reply #317 on: November 27, 2015, 08:54:05 AM »
Todays difara pie. I bump up the hydro to 70% . With that kind of hydro one has to got skills if you want to make a lot of pies in a short time.

Offline pizzadaheim

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Re: Reverse Engineering DiFara's Pizzas
« Reply #318 on: November 27, 2015, 08:57:36 AM »
More
« Last Edit: November 27, 2015, 09:01:15 AM by pizzadaheim »

Offline hotsawce

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Re: Reverse Engineering DiFara's Pizzas
« Reply #319 on: December 02, 2015, 01:49:11 AM »
Has anyone tried making a round or square pie using the weights at http://www.pizzacentric.com/journal/2012/10/19/di-fara-weights-and-measures.html ?

For the round, it's a little under a 0.09 TF assuming an 18" pie and more grana/parm by weight than low moisture mozzarella. I'm also guessing, based on the dough weights, he's not using the same dough ball size (or even two of one dough ball) for the 12x 18" square.

What I found most interesting is the weight for the square sauce, which seems to list ingredients. The tomatoes, olive oil, onion, and spices. No mention of garlic or a ham hock/prosciutto chunk. To me, what's listed on that website jives with what I've tasted. I didn't see chunks of onion so he probably halves a couple and cooks 'em in the sauce. Has anyone tried making a cooked sauce based on that information?

Offline hotsawce

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Re: Reverse Engineering DiFara's Pizzas
« Reply #320 on: December 03, 2015, 11:53:06 AM »
Are you sure there was a meatiness to the sauce? I did not taste pork in the sauce, and was told the sauce used to be cooked with a hunk of prosciutto but is no longer because of vegetarians.

Also, do you think the roughly cut tomatoes are uncooked? Maybe that's just how they prep the tomatoes for the sauce and they remain semi whole through cooking? For example, the round sauce has chunks of roughly cut tomato in it and it is uncooked. Maybe the cooked sauce is just that sauce cooked down with onion and olive oil?

I really love this sauce (it's my favorite cooked sauce for a square) and I'd love to approximate it.

4th time at Difara in a month.  Ordered a regular pie with pepperoni and I asked for some sauce on the side to eat with the pizza, and she gave it to me in a plastic cup straight from the metal pizza sauce pot on the bench. 

Few observations. 

It is definitely cooked sauce with addition of uncooked roughly cut canned tomatoes added to it.  The cut tomatoes taste fresher and brighter than the rest of sauce.  A nice contrast.
There is an underlying meaty smokiness and slighlty fatty taste to the sauce, I identify it as pork.  I'm fairly certain the sauce is cooked with a small block of pancetta and removed after.  This is what my former boss used to do as well back in the 80's.  The herbs I taste are fresh oregano, fresh basil.  I can see the herbs are chopped and larger than dried herbs.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2015, 11:54:38 AM by hotsawce »

Offline CaptBob

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Re: Reverse Engineering DiFara's Pizzas
« Reply #321 on: December 03, 2015, 07:56:33 PM »
Todays difara pie. I bump up the hydro to 70% . With that kind of hydro one has to got skills if you want to make a lot of pies in a short time.

Those look terrific!
Bob