Author Topic: mozzarella from curd and texture (Read 2865 times)

thezaman · « **on:** March 04, 2010, 06:12:07 PM »

my mozzarella from curd doesn't have the nice soft texture of a fior di latte, any one able to achieve this using curd?i have tried adding whole milk to the curd as taught by the vpn school, still unable to achieve anything close. i also like the way fior di latte melts and mixes with the sauce.

pizzablogger · « **Reply #1 on:** March 04, 2010, 07:37:32 PM »

zaman, are you purchasing the curds to make your mootz?

ninapizza23 · « **Reply #2 on:** March 04, 2010, 08:28:35 PM »

thezaman,
what brand of curd are you using, how do you proceed and what temp?

thezaman · « **Reply #3 on:** March 04, 2010, 08:42:34 PM »

i have tried polly-o and grande. salted water to 165 . curd broken into small even sized pieces, pour water around permitter of a metal bowl to cover. stir gently and let it sit 5 minutes . i then pour off 2/3 of the water and add more hot water to cover. after another 5 minutes i stretch it then ball it and cool it. i have only gotten one batchto come out where my italian family complimented it . all other times "not a to good". i do freeze the curd and use as needed, do you all think that makes a difference.

dzpiez · « **Reply #4 on:** March 04, 2010, 09:54:35 PM »

Hi thezaman,
I took the VPN training here in Marina del Ray and was taught to make my fior di latte the same as you, probably from the same person, Jose. I would love to get my hands on some Polly-O curd, but I use curd I get from a little Italian grocer. I make it the same way you do, and never had a problem, the texture is good, the taste is great, and it melts good too. I think the "freezing" it might have something to do with it. I get my cure a few lbs. at a time and don't have to worry about having to freeze it. Wish I could help. Let me know how it works out.

widespreadpizza · « **Reply #5 on:** March 04, 2010, 10:02:51 PM »

Zaman, funny I was just about to ask the forum if anyone had frozen curd before, and what the results are. I was considering ordering some from goldedn age cheese out of NY just to see how it was, they mention on thier site that freezing the curd is a non issue. Cheese is just constantly my weakest link in the pizza chain here. I can't get anything good around here. I wish I could get some grande fresh when I need it, but noone carries it, and even if they did it would be 8 bucks a pound. has anyone ever tried golden age? -marc

pizzablogger · « **Reply #6 on:** March 04, 2010, 10:25:39 PM »

I am curious.....does the VPN training spend any time discussing how to make your own mozzarella "from the ground up" as it were.....as in creating your own curds from whatever milk source you decide to procure (ideally raw if state laws allow) and if there is any discussion with regards to curds set via rennet versus curds set via acidification with citric acid?

If so, was any discussion and/or sample of mootz made with curds set with animal rennet tasted alongside of curds set with vegetable rennet? Thanks --K

thezaman · « **Reply #7 on:** March 04, 2010, 11:26:13 PM »

vpn only makes it with curd, i have made it from both pasteurized and raw. the raw had way to much fat i should of skimmed it . the pasturized was good, but it is hard to get the curd cooked without cooking out the fat. at 800 degrees it looks like a marshmallow . i think you need a culture to get close to what the cheese-makers produce. the best cheese from curd i have had is from il pizzaiolo in pittsburgh. i think they add some sugar as well as the salt to the cooking water.

ninapizza23 · « **Reply #8 on:** March 05, 2010, 12:25:32 AM »

Thezaman,
DON'T FREEZE THE CURD. The curd can stay in the fridge about 40 days but if you start seeing some pink it means it is starting to go bad or discard. Also, increase the temp to 180 190 and wear heavy duty gloves. Use a paddle to work the mozzarella and when you see the surface shining, you fold it and ball it. The guy I know makes 3 tons of mozzarella a week this way. Polly-o comes in 42lbs box. The restaurant supply I go to sells Supremo, Bel Gioioso and Polly-o. I was told Polly-O is the best of the three.

ilpizzaiolo · « **Reply #9 on:** March 05, 2010, 01:57:40 AM »

to clarify, no sugar anywhere near cheese, dough or sauce.

dzpiez · « **Reply #10 on:** March 05, 2010, 02:11:40 AM »

Hey Thezaman,
check out this as far as salt goes, this guy uses alot.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vymXC0Cnxw" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vymXC0Cnxw</a>

thezaman · « **Reply #11 on:** March 05, 2010, 07:05:45 AM »

ilpizziaiolo, then i really am doing something wrong you are getting a sweetness from your curd that i am not. maybe more salt will bring out the flavor. i am having two pizzs picked up today at lunch ,for my dinner tonight.

thezaman · « **Reply #12 on:** March 05, 2010, 07:18:07 AM »

dzpiez, thank for the video his cured was a lot softer than mine.

ninapizza,thanks for the tip as stated above my water temperature must be to low .

pizzablogger · « **Reply #13 on:** March 05, 2010, 07:52:39 AM »

Quote from: ilpizzaiolo on March 05, 2010, 01:57:40 AM

to clarify, no sugar anywhere near cheese, dough or sauce.

Amen to that.

zaman, just noticed you mentioned your previous 165°F water temp....I concur with the temperature of the water as being something you should immediately change and see if you notice a difference. 190°F is a good minimum point to shoot for, even a little hotter (195°F) if you can stand it. As stated here, a wooden paddle will help you handle the hot water temps. See if this helps with your texture.

There is an old guy just outside of Little Italy here who is the Dom DeMarco of mozzarella making....must have asbestos arms and hands. Guy just barehands the mootz during the entire forming/stretching process and this guy told me he likes the water as close to 200°F as possible. Ouch!

pizzablogger · « **Reply #14 on:** March 05, 2010, 07:55:05 AM »

As an aside, I really enjoy videos of homemade things like this.........some mozzarella making:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQuUIhHKp0A" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQuUIhHKp0A</a>

jeff v · « **Reply #15 on:** March 05, 2010, 08:29:36 AM »

There are some other good videos on YouTube too. Besides what others have said about freezing etc, the other thing that could be affecting texture is how you handle the curd while making the cheese. Not sure what your seeing happen texture wise, but the first few times I made it I was too rough and it ended up coming out more like whole milk mozz. It took a fair amount of practice for me to get somewhat of the hang of it.

thezaman · « **Reply #16 on:** March 05, 2010, 09:13:47 AM »

my only concern with the hotter water is the possibility of the butterfat cooking out.

dellavecchia · « **Reply #17 on:** March 05, 2010, 09:29:29 AM »

Curd that has been processed with citric acid has a much tougher consistency in the final product than a bacterial inoculated acidification. As well, the optimum PH for curds being made into mozzarella should be 5.3 to get a really good stretch, texture, and softness in the final cheese - which then results in even melting during high heat cooking.

In the stretching, I have found that too much manipulation (ie, turning onto itself in a ball over the water) results in too much moisture being pulled out, and the cheese being too dense. Take a look at the below video of bufala mozzarella being made - notice that the "stretching" is done more in a spinning motion and the curds are never groped or squeezed. Then they literally pull off ball sized chunks instead of forming the balls manually.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwaE1yzn5O4&feature=PlayList&p=FE4560BE0425DF6E&index=5" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwaE1yzn5O4&feature=PlayList&p=FE4560BE0425DF6E&index=5</a>

John

GotRocks · « **Reply #18 on:** March 05, 2010, 10:38:46 AM »

Quote from: thezaman on March 04, 2010, 06:12:07 PM

my mozzarella from curd doesn't have the nice soft texture of a fior di latte, any one able to achieve this using curd?i have tried adding whole milk to the curd as taught by the vpn school, still unable to achieve anything close. i also like the way fior di latte melts and mixes with the sauce.

Is there any reason you can not get a sales representative from the cheese manufacturer you use out by you to help troubleshoot your process?

My Grande Rep. has plans to come by when we get nearer our opening so she can work with me making mozz from curd and present their full product line to nail down what is going to work best for our needs.

There has got to be someone out there, our willing to travel to you at their own company's expense to help you out if your having difficulty with their product.

I have also learned 180 degree minimum water temps are needed. (through conversation, not my personal experience)

jcamador · « **Reply #19 on:** March 05, 2010, 12:12:53 PM »

Quote from: dellavecchia on March 05, 2010, 09:29:29 AM

Curd that has been processed with citric acid has a much tougher consistency in the final product than a bacterial inoculated acidification. As well, the optimum PH for curds being made into mozzarella should be 5.3 to get a really good stretch, texture, and softness in the final cheese - which then results in even melting during high heat cooking.

I absolutely agree. Making mozz with a thermophilic culture takes time (6-7 hours) but produces a much better product...soft, buttery, and melts extremely well. With a culture, the ph level is gently brought down whereas with the citric acid it is pretty much directly acidified once you add it. It kind of "shock" curdles the milk.

Check your local home brew store for the culture. It comes in little packets and is best kept frozen.