Author Topic: The Cheese at Franco Manca and my view on MYO (make your own)  (Read 1708 times)

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Offline pizzanapoletana

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I wrote the message below in response to a PM and thought to post it to summarise my view expressed in the past in various posts:

I always think that a pizzeria should focus on the dough, baking and serving customers and then find reliable suppliers to buy produce from. As a pizzeria you need to concentrate on a daily dough production, which is already very complicated and will not make sense to try cheese making. That is a different art all together and should be left to the right professionals.

Having said that, the cheese on the pizza needs also to have certain qualities other then taste and that makes find the right supplier even more difficult. At Franco Manca (where I am only the consultant responsible for the dough management and baking), the owner, a keen foodie, had a vision to use as much organic and local products as it was possible. This idea brought him to search and identify a cheese maker with a  Bufala farm in Somerset as a potential supplier. However this cheese maker had a traditional British “Cheddar” background and no clue about the Neapolitan “pasta filata” process. Therefore, Franco Manca’s owner first sent the key cheese maker in Italy for a week training and then brought over a Master Caseareo from Italy to help setting up the Pasta Filata production in Somerset. I believe they have achieved reasonable results in terms of taste and initial consistencies but IMO the cheese is still not comparable to the Neapolitan equivalent and does not melt or stays on the pizza as it should. You can also see the yellow tint to it from the pictures. I would rather buy a proper Firo di Latte or Mozzarella Campana, but because of the Air Miles, the owner would not do that.

In Naples, you have some of the best cheese makers in the wolrd at your door steps delivering their daily fresh production to you, so it make me laugh hysterically when I hear American reviewer or writers that summarise a visit to a pizzeria in Naples with comments like “they do not make their own cheese” as it is a negative point comparing them with NYC or Chris Bianco…

Back on home cheese making, I think it could be a funny activity but I also do not understand the American way of doing it from curd… This is cheating IMO… True mozzarella is also special from the way the milk is curded and fermented with proper rennet and starters, and buy curd that is only scalded and formed is nowhere like make you own mozzarella IMO… When starting from milk, you would need special milk and for instance, Jersey milk is notoriously not good for pasta filata cheese making.



I am sure that I'll find many opposite views, but I thought was worth sharing to gave the wider community my two cents

Offline pizzablogger

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Re: The Cheese at Franco Manca and my view on MYO (make your own)
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2010, 07:29:15 PM »
Buona sera Marco (at least it's evening here). Thank you for posting your reply.

Please have patience and I apologize for my lengthy response, but I am curious about the mozzarella cheese making process and any answers you could provide would be greatly appreciated. There is not a lot of information about making fresh fior-di-latte from scratch (no citric acid, no pre-made curds, etc) near me and any help you could provide would be wonderful.


...but I also do not understand the American way of doing it from curd… This is cheating IMO…

I'm not sure I would exactly call it "cheating", but I am feeling more like you each time I think about home made mozzarella.

Quote from: pizzanapoletana
the way the milk is curded and fermented with proper rennet and starters, and buy curd that is only scalded and formed is nowhere like make you own mozzarella IMO… When starting from milk, you would need special milk and for instance, Jersey milk is notoriously not good for pasta filata cheese making.

Marco, when you mention "special milk", could you please provide more details on what qualities would make a milk better than another for cheese making? Could you please provide some specifics, if available, for cows milk as we do not have water buffalo anywhere near me.

My initial thoughts are varied and, call it ridiculous, but holistic issues and even "terroir" have to play a part, potentially a major part, in making some milk more suitable for making high quality mozzarella than others. And if a person is going to spend the time, why not make it as high a quality product possible?

I think it is obvious that a certain fat content in the milk would be ideal, but I am not sure what an ideal range would be. Can there be too much? Most of the farms producing raw milk near me (I have to drive 60 to 90 min to find one) mention their cows produce milk with a butterfat content of 4 or 5 percent. One producer claims 6%.

From my extremely limited experiments with making mozzarella, obtaining raw milk (no pasteurization, homogenization, etc) makes a noticeable, favorable difference in the texture and flavor of the finished product. As an aside, I am a firm believer in also looking for raw milk from cows that do not have hormones or chemicals added to their diet and are allowed to free range.

Are there any particular cows that are more suited to producing good milk than others? Most of the farms near me use the Jersey cows or the Jersey Cross cows you mentioned as not being suited for good mozzarella.  Marco, I have tasted raw milk from Jersey cows that are only grass fed and from some which are not entirely grass fed (grain supported). I did a blind taste test and the milk from the all grass fed cows did in fact have a more pleasing taste than the cows fed a combination of grass and grain (and prolonged grain feeding is actually harmful to a cow).

We also have farms near me raising and using Normandy/Holstein cows and Dutch Belted cows. I definitely prefer the raw milk from the Dutch Belted cows over the Jersey or Jersey Cross cows I have tasted, but I have not tried the raw milk from the Normandy/Holstein cows as the farm is over two hours away. Are you familiar with Normandy/Holstein cows?

Finally, I mentioned I did prefer milk from 100% grass fed cows. I’ve seen various television shows and have read in magazines such as Culture that certain farmers swear by the type of grass and location of the grass the cow eats as being a major contributor to the taste of the milk. This also has to tie into the soil. How is it any different than wine, where certain terroirs are capable of producing wines individualistic to that area (if the winemaker is skillful and doesn’t interfere too much!).

I know that some claim the mozzarella from around Caserta and Battipaglia is superior to that of other areas. Do you find this to be true Marco? If so, is there a generally known reason why this may be? Do more of the better producers just happen to be around such areas, or do better producers choose to operate in such areas because of some climactic, soil, terrain, etc characteristic which makes the area more suitable than others?

Wow, this has gotten quite long, but any information would be helpful. Are there any books which would be a good reference point for the pasta filata process which may help us?

It is somewhat unrelated, but for me at least it is always a powerful and elightening experience to be able to go all the way to the source of where products come from when we are not able to produce/grow them ourselves. There is a very simple joy to putting your hands on a living creature, seeing where and how it lives, tasting the milk that comes out of them and meeting the people who operate a farm and talking to them.

Thank you again and take care. --K
« Last Edit: March 09, 2010, 07:44:30 PM by pizzablogger »
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Offline pizzablogger

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Re: The Cheese at Franco Manca and my view on MYO (make your own)
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2010, 11:15:38 AM »
I've been Googling and looking at library's, etc for variants of "home made mozzarella", "traditional home made mozzarella", neapolitan cheese making, cheese without citric acid, etc.

Using Marco's "Pasta Filata", this came up.

Not entirely different from what I have experimented with. Do these seem legitimate Marco?

Modification of Pasta Filata recipe:

http://biology.clc.uc.edu/fankhauser/cheese/pasta_filata/pasta_filata.html

Italian recipe/method

http://biology.clc.uc.edu/fankhauser/Cheese/Mozzarella/MOZZARELLA_jn0.HTM

The big difference in both methods as compared to more common "quick" methods (and the one I have been toying with) is the acidification occurs more naturally over a period of 6-8 hours without using citric acid. I agree with the Professor in these links in that getting the curds to spin is challenging.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2010, 11:34:28 AM by pizzablogger »
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Offline pizzanapoletana

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Re: The Cheese at Franco Manca and my view on MYO (make your own)
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2010, 01:27:58 PM »
Hi K,

I have no intention of starting a mentoring on mozzarella, I have just shared my views, and in line with my views, I would not be the best person to do so anyway.

To answer some of your questions based on what I know:

- First : The milk is obviously better thanks to the area where it is produced based on the feeding of the cows (Fior di latte) and bufale (first element of terroir). They add both a fermenting starter (another elemenent of terroir I would say) and rennet to the milk  to form the curd (not sure you know but where Bufalo rennet is not available, some are known to use Goat rennet)

- There are many milks as the Jersey that are fantastic to drink but not good for pasta filata cheesemaking as these lacks the right balance of proteines and fats...

- I do believe that the Mozzarella from Campania is superior first and foremost that the one produced in Apulia and surely of what is produced in US and UK (this according to some studies of various Universities has to do with the terroirs factors above). What is more, I like the mozzarella from Caserta more then the one from Battipaglia. They follow different traditions and the "Aversana" (from Caserta) is bit more salted and has a firmer consistency.

- there are few cow breeds that makes milk that is suitable to the production of superior Fior Di Latte. One is known to be the "Podolica breed" thanks to bothe the breed itself and the outdoor/free range farming that suits this breed. Also, the special Fior di Latte from the south (that often uses Podolica milk) is going through the DOP approval

Ciao

Offline pizzablogger

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Re: The Cheese at Franco Manca and my view on MYO (make your own)
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2010, 02:45:47 PM »
Hi Marco.

I wasn't expecting you to mentor us on the pasta filata process for mozzarella, but am merely curious about as many aspects of the process as possible. Your responses have been very helpful.

Yes, a fermenting starter and rennet is indeed what I have been using to acidify the milk and set the curd. I have been using cultured buttermilk and have also experimented with creating my own culture from yogurt. The whole cheesemaking process takes two days. think I need to purchase a thermophilic cheese culture specifically for this type of cheese (Italian ones are available online) and try that as well to see which one I prefer.

Thanks so much Marco and I am looking forward to more experiments and more failures on the road to home made mozzarella happines in my house (and on top of my pizzas!). Take care --K  :)

"It's Baltimore, gentlemen, the gods will not save you." --Burrell

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: The Cheese at Franco Manca and my view on MYO (make your own)
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2010, 01:04:08 PM »
I achieve excellent results with raw Jersey milk here in Massachusetts, albeit by letting the milk stand for a day and skimming off the accumulated fat layer (cream). There is a distinctive faint yellow color to this milk.

In my preparation, which uses a bacterial inoculation and vegetable rennet, I let the acidification go a touch longer than normal to achieve a slightly more "sour" flavor (although if you go to much the curd will not spin). This flavor is very close to the Bufula from Campania I can buy at Whole Foods. The texture - soft and milky - is also very similar to the italian product. It melts very well in my home oven, and the flavor does not fall flat. I look forward to seeing how it will stand up to a WFO when I get mine set up this spring.

I would suspect that there is no cost difference in purchasing the Bufula compared to acquiring raw milk and spending two days making it - but the pleasure from making your own mozzarella adds intangibly to the pizza making experience, no matter what the authenticity. Plus, my family is from Caserta - and the urge to make such things is in my blood.

John

Offline widespreadpizza

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Re: The Cheese at Franco Manca and my view on MYO (make your own)
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2010, 03:07:49 PM »
John,  I am wondering what you are using for a starter?  Due to pizzabloggers post,  I just found out i can get jersey raw milk one town over from me just about every other day.  Also,  where are you in Mass?  Seems to be a bunch of folks from the area posting lately>  thanks -marc

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: The Cheese at Franco Manca and my view on MYO (make your own)
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2010, 03:18:38 PM »
Marc - I use a thermophilic starter from a cheese supply company (cheesemaking.com) or greek yoghurt. Honestly, I get just as good, if not better tasting, results with the yoghurt - I use Fage Total 0%.

I am located in Natick, MA - just outside Boston.

John

Offline scott r

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Re: The Cheese at Franco Manca and my view on MYO (make your own)
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2010, 03:56:31 PM »
I want to try your cheese, and I live in boston.   Let me know if you ever want to sell any.


Offline widespreadpizza

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Re: The Cheese at Franco Manca and my view on MYO (make your own)
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2010, 04:19:41 PM »
John,  thanks for the info on the yogurt.  I will look for it,  and particular store you get it at?  I may ask you for more info if I get a hold of some soon.  -marc

Online scott123

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Re: The Cheese at Franco Manca and my view on MYO (make your own)
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2010, 04:26:29 PM »
I achieve excellent results with raw Jersey milk here in Massachusetts, albeit by letting the milk stand for a day and skimming off the accumulated fat layer (cream).

Isn't high fat content one of the traits of good mozzarella? It seems to me that many recipes go to great lengths to keep as much as fat as possible in the finished cheese.

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: The Cheese at Franco Manca and my view on MYO (make your own)
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2010, 04:34:36 PM »
The milk that I get has so much fat in it that skimming off the top makes for a better consistency in the final product. Without skimming the cheese is almost dripping with fat - and I am not fond of that on the pizza. The milk is from Misty Brook Farms in Barre, MA.

Scott - I would never charge for my cheese!

John

Offline scott r

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Re: The Cheese at Franco Manca and my view on MYO (make your own)
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2010, 04:34:53 PM »
Marc, they will have Fage at any whole foods, and most trader joes.  

Offline pizzablogger

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Re: The Cheese at Franco Manca and my view on MYO (make your own)
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2010, 10:31:47 AM »
I hope these help with regards to "starters" for mozzarella making:

1. Cultured Buttermilk can be used, which has active enzymes in it. This is available at many places, with Trader Joes, Whole Foods, etc being good sources. Some of the farms on the Real Milk list I posted also sell this product.

2. Purchasing a thermophilic culture. An Italian culture is available from Cheesemaking.com here:
http://www.cheesemaking.com/store/p/137-Thermophilic-Italian-1-packet.html

3. You can create your own culture, as discussed in the following links:
http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php?topic=16.0
http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,67.0.html?PHPSESSID=d522d7cb2c749fe03c5e840749015c1f

I plan on doing small scale test batches using all three methods to see which method I prefer with regards to the quality of the curd and texture and flavor of the finished product.

In case someone missed it, a good link to making mozzarella via the pasta filata process is available here:

http://biology.clc.uc.edu/fankhauser/cheese/pasta_filata/pasta_filata.html

Variations on this method/recipe can be seen in the following 2 youtube videos. The second one is a great look at making a larger batch size. I posted the second link in another thread:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgB-pmwOhbw" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgB-pmwOhbw</a>


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQuUIhHKp0A" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQuUIhHKp0A</a>
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