KASL flour in high temps.

[t0n3c4p0]

How does a hi-gluten flour react in a wood fired oven?

[scott r]

It works great as long as you are doing a 1.5 minute pie or slower.   At anything less than that it will brown too much and in order to get it fully cooked in the middle the bottom could be too brown.   There are very few pizzerias in the US actually firing their neapolitan ovens to the temp that high gluten flour wouldn't work.  Most claiming to do a neapolitan pizza are in the 1.5-2.5 minute range, and that flour would work fine.  I know that Franny's in Brooklyn is using KASL in their (non neapolitan built) wood fired oven, so that should give you and idea of what it would be like. 

[t0n3c4p0]

thanks scott. I have no experience with an oven that reaches 800+ degrees and didn't know what KASL would do at those temperatures. I want to open a wood fired shop and l really like that flour, didn't know what would happen.

[scott r]

I also wanted to point out that my comments are based on a specific flour....KASL or king arthur sir lancelot.    If you were to use a non malted high gluten flour I don't think you would have a problem with over browning.   

[t0n3c4p0]

Yes, I've been making dough with Sir Lancelot for a while, 50lb bags. I don't know baker's percentages. I'm a third generation pizza maker or "pizzaiola."  I just make good pizza. The practice of making dough was passed to me by my father, and so on. I learned by sight, watching the heal, making sure it wasn't too wet, or too hard. My grandfather learned the trade while he worked for a couple of Italian brothers in Los Angeles. He moved his family east to NY, PA, and finally Ohio. We cook on stone with cornmeal in a blodgett. By over browning do you mean burning? Which hi-gluten flours are not malted?

thank you,

Tony

[scott r]

Yes, at high temps malted flours tend to burn before the inside of the crust is done.   Of course one persons definition of high temps is different than another persons.    As I mentioned before, you won't really have any trouble with a malted flour (such as KASL) burning unless you are making pies in a VERY high temp oven such as one that can bake a pizza in 2 min or less.      Guisto makes some excellent flours without the addition of malt. If your baking a pizza in less than 2 min you would want one of these or the popular Caputo Pizzeria flour, which does not contain malt.   

[t0n3c4p0]

What temperatures cook at 2 minutes or less? I assumed 800+, but admittedly when it comes to wood fired ovens i am a noob. If i used KASL with a high hydration would that prevent burning?

[Matthew]

What temperatures cook at 2 minutes or less? I assumed 800+, but admittedly when it comes to wood fired ovens i am a noob. If i used KASL with a high hydration would that prevent burning?

Yes, Scott is referring to temps of 800 deg +.  I don't believe that the level of hydration would prevent the burning, it's the malt in the flour.  You would have to go with a non malted flour.

Matt

[scott r]

Actually a higher hydration actually makes the problem worse.   The bottom burns before the dough can cook all the way through to the very wet dough in the middle.   

[t0n3c4p0]

I'm planning on making some thin pizzas in the wood fired oven. Some more questions if you don't mind Scott. Do Caputo and Guisto make non-malted hi-gluten flour? Or is the malt responsible for the high gluten? Is Franny's cooking @ 800+ degrees? If I'm making thin pizza with KASL is over browning still an issue? Thanks for taking the time to read this!

[scott r]

Caputo flour does not contain malt, and Guisto makes both malted and un-malted flours.    Malt is not responsible for a flour being high gluten or not.   Diastatic malt is an additive that can be put in any flour.  It aids in browning and longer fermentation times and is in most american flours including KASL, but more and more non malted american flours are popping up as bakers are getting into artisan pizza and bread baked at higher temperatures.   I think it is best to talk about oven temps based on bake time.   When you ask if Franny's is cooking at 800 it is very difficult to answer that question as oven temps vary widely based on where the temperature measurement is taken.  The walls or dome, or the part of the floor near the fire could well be near 1000 degrees in some ovens, while the oven floor where the pizza is placed could only be 700 degrees.  Frannys does make a pizza in an oven that is hotter than your average pizzeria, and I have timed it at around 2.5 minutes.  That means that somewhere in the oven it is probably 800 degrees, but you could get a higher or lower measurement somewhere else.  Malted flours can make the bottom of your pizza burn before the rest of the pizza is done if you are baking in a high temperature oven (2 min or less) regardless of the pizzas thickness.