Author Topic: Best ever thin "cracker" crust pizza!  (Read 164782 times)

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Offline Klankster

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Re: Best ever thin "cracker" crust pizza!
« Reply #175 on: November 24, 2013, 09:36:37 PM »
I laminate mine every week, and really have little trouble -- given that I let it rest for a couple minutes when it gets hard to roll.  Here's what I do:

I take half the dough recipe from above in this topic, which for me will make a 12-inch pizza with some leftovers for crackers.

I roll it out on my Silestone countertop and use very little bench flour -- just a dusting to keep it from sticking too much when it really gets rolled out.  I use one of those tapered rolling pins and roll it into about a 12-inch square.  Then I cut it into four 6-inch squares and spritz three of them with a little olive oil from my olive oil mister.  Then I stack these with the un-sprayed one on top and start rolling it out.

I can usually roll this back out to about 9x9 inches before it starts fighting back.  So I walk away and do some other prep for a few minutes, then come back and continue rolling.  Using the tapered pin, I'm able to roll the stacked square out to about 14 inches in diameter.  It ends up about 1/16 - 3/32" thick.  I then dock it and put it into the cutter pan, and trim it, then into a 500F oven to parbake for 5 minutes.

It does get a bit tough to roll at a couple of points but letting it sit for a couple minutes lets me resume the rolling.  The laminated result I get is worth every bit of effort.
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Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Best ever thin "cracker" crust pizza!
« Reply #176 on: November 24, 2013, 11:01:39 PM »
Probably the main reason why you consider it easier than I do is because I'm always shooting for a precise dough weight. I'm always trying to do things that are repeatable and quantifiable. Like final dough weight and diameter. It's very hard to get an accurate target weight, an accurate target diameter, and a consistent thickness with stiff laminated dough.

I'm obsessive-compulsive. Somewhat close isn't good enough.
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Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.

Offline Ctx

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Re: Best ever thin "cracker" crust pizza!
« Reply #177 on: December 21, 2013, 03:39:49 PM »
Greetings all.  2nd post here.   :)   I'm giving the DKM recipe from the first post a try.   Used bread flour, proofed the yeast before adding, weighed out the flour, etc.  Dough is on the 22nd hour of proofing so here is my question.  It doesn't seem to be rising at all.  It feels a bit softer, but not much.   I have it in an airtight container with plastic wrap and a towel over it - could that be contributing to the no-rise?  Is it even supposed to rise?   :D.  Anyhow, I'm going to throw it in the oven on proof setting for an hour or two to see what happens. 

ETA - room temperature is about 70 degrees.   

Any input here would be greatly appreciated! 

« Last Edit: December 21, 2013, 03:44:17 PM by Ctx »

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Best ever thin "cracker" crust pizza!
« Reply #178 on: December 21, 2013, 04:00:23 PM »
Greetings all.  2nd post here.   :)   I'm giving the DKM recipe from the first post a try.   Used bread flour, proofed the yeast before adding, weighed out the flour, etc.  Dough is on the 22nd hour of proofing so here is my question.  It doesn't seem to be rising at all.  It feels a bit softer, but not much.   I have it in an airtight container with plastic wrap and a towel over it - could that be contributing to the no-rise?  Is it even supposed to rise?   :D.  Anyhow, I'm going to throw it in the oven on proof setting for an hour or two to see what happens. 

ETA - room temperature is about 70 degrees.   

Any input here would be greatly appreciated!
Don't need to proof IDY(actually, I don't proof either).....if your proofing water was too hot you can kill the yeast. Maybe that is what happened...or it is old and all fizzed out.  :(
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Offline Ctx

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Re: Best ever thin "cracker" crust pizza!
« Reply #179 on: December 21, 2013, 04:09:48 PM »
Don't need to proof IDY(actually, I don't proof either).....if your proofing water was too hot you can kill the yeast. Maybe that is what happened...or it is old and all fizzed out.  :(

I bought new yeast (Fleishman's highly active yeast) and proofed at 100 degrees.   The yeast bubbled up so seemed good.    I have the dough proofing in the oven now to see if anything will happen.   If not, I'm still going to try baking to see what happens.


Could the plastic wrap I have over it be contributing?   Last (failed) go-round, the dough got hard on the outside, so I wanted to protect it. 
« Last Edit: December 21, 2013, 04:15:28 PM by Ctx »

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Best ever thin "cracker" crust pizza!
« Reply #180 on: December 21, 2013, 04:22:49 PM »
I bought new yeast (Fleishman's highly active yeast) and proofed at 100 degrees.   The yeast bubbled up so seemed good.    I have the dough proofing in the oven now to see if anything will happen.   If not, I'm still going to try baking to see what happens.


Could the plastic wrap I have over it be contributing?   Last (failed) go-round, the dough got hard on the outside, so I wanted to protect it.
I think plastic wrap is a great thing to use if that is what you like. That dough has1 1/2 tsp. yeast in it, correct? I think you'll see some activity with it now in the oven....can you increase oven temp a little?
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Offline Ctx

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Re: Best ever thin "cracker" crust pizza!
« Reply #181 on: December 21, 2013, 04:27:30 PM »
I think plastic wrap is a great thing to use if that is what you like. That dough has1 1/2 tsp. yeast in it, correct? I think you'll see some activity with it now in the oven....can you increase oven temp a little?

Yep!  1 1/2 tsp.       I tried to bump the temp up a bit but it seems proof mode is at 100 and 100 only.

Thanks for the ideas and help with this!  :)  I'm going on my 3rd try - I really want this to work. 

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Best ever thin "cracker" crust pizza!
« Reply #182 on: December 21, 2013, 04:38:37 PM »
Yep!  1 1/2 tsp.       I tried to bump the temp up a bit but it seems proof mode is at 100 and 100 only.

Thanks for the ideas and help with this!  :)  I'm going on my 3rd try - I really want this to work.
Oh, OK...I'm sorry, 100 degrees is perfect. Thought you has said 70 degrees.
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Offline Ctx

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Re: Best ever thin "cracker" crust pizza!
« Reply #183 on: December 21, 2013, 04:42:38 PM »
Oh, OK...I'm sorry, 100 degrees is perfect. Thought you has said 70 degrees.

70 degrees was room temp overnight.   Oven is set at 100. :)


Offline Ctx

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Re: Best ever thin "cracker" crust pizza!
« Reply #184 on: December 21, 2013, 06:07:41 PM »
Aaaaand...fail.  Sorta.   The dough didn't rise in the oven so I just went with that.  It was hella-hard to roll it out.   Had to get the husband to give it a shot.  Did not achieve the dime thickness that is shown in this thread. 

Having said that, i wasn't a huge fan of the end result.  It was a bit cardboardish towards the center although the edges were nice.    My husband actually liked it, so dinner was not ruined.   But it's back to seeing if I can fix the rising issue. 

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Best ever thin "cracker" crust pizza!
« Reply #185 on: December 21, 2013, 07:35:44 PM »
Aaaaand...fail.  Sorta.   The dough didn't rise in the oven so I just went with that.  It was hella-hard to roll it out.   Had to get the husband to give it a shot.  Did not achieve the dime thickness that is shown in this thread. 

Having said that, i wasn't a huge fan of the end result.  It was a bit cardboardish towards the center although the edges were nice.    My husband actually liked it, so dinner was not ruined.   But it's back to seeing if I can fix the rising issue.
Well that's a bummer, sorry to hear this Ctx. I would get some IDY and never again worry about "proofing" yeast.
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Offline Musky

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Re: Best ever thin "cracker" crust pizza!
« Reply #186 on: December 21, 2013, 08:15:12 PM »
You may not have been that far off as that dough can be ridiculously hard to roll out.  I tried to laminate it the last time I made it and my arms hurt for three days.  lol.  And I'm a big feller.  I always use a couple three more points of water than that recipe.  I'm a cheater.

Kevin

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Best ever thin "cracker" crust pizza!
« Reply #187 on: December 21, 2013, 08:51:57 PM »
You may not have been that far off as that dough can be ridiculously hard to roll out.  I tried to laminate it the last time I made it and my arms hurt for three days.  lol.  And I'm a big feller.  I always use a couple three more points of water than that recipe.  I'm a cheater.

Kevin
Musky's post just caused me to go back to the start of this thread. Sorry Ctx, I don't know what I was thinking! I've made this dough brain before and yes, it don't rise much.  :-[

I kinda like what good old buzz had to say....

Cracker-like thin pizza doesn't depend on the dough recipe--the best I've ever had comes from a place in the Chicago suburbs which uses a standard flour:water ratio recipe and scant oil. It's the best pizza I've ever had!

The relevant factors are minimizing yeast and a high oven temperature. This pizza place has a metal-floored oven set at close to 600 degrees--with Steve's way of getting the metal pan close to the heating element you can mimic this set-up.

I've tried this method using a standard pizza pan and with my pizza machine, and both make wafer-thin, cripsy, cracker-like crust!

I have yet to use a pizza screen--they're supposed to be awesome. Has anyone ever tried one?
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Offline Ctx

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Re: Best ever thin "cracker" crust pizza!
« Reply #188 on: December 21, 2013, 10:47:23 PM »
No worries CB.  :). I'm still trying to figure this stuff out and I've read a lot of threads!   You are right - the end result did look a bit like brain.   ;D.   

I did read one of Petezzza's (sp?) posts that mentioned the dough proof to make it easier to roll out.  Apparently my oven was not hot enough to do a good job and I think there might have been an issue the oil not blending as well as it should have - I added it late in the process.   Anyhow, tomorrow is another day and another pizza.  Thanks again for your input!

Offline dogboy

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Re: Best ever thin "cracker" crust pizza!
« Reply #189 on: December 25, 2013, 03:04:07 PM »
I tried a recipe that called for roll the dough out. Fold the dough and roll again. I also used much less water then usual. Now I'm not sure what did the trick... The less water or the double fold and roll... my raw dough was tougher to roll but it achieved somthing in a  crust which I have been trying to get for years. Dough was 24 hours refrigerator old. Just made 2nd pizza which is 36 hour old dough. I also bought a crisper pan. I was looking for a screen but did not find one at the store. I cooked it on a crisper on the stone for 10 minutes and then directly placed pizza on stone for 4 minutes. Oven at 500. What made the crisp cracker crust????

Offline dogboy

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Re: Best ever thin "cracker" crust pizza!
« Reply #190 on: December 25, 2013, 03:07:18 PM »
Pizza 2 36 hour refrigerator rise.

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Best ever thin "cracker" crust pizza!
« Reply #191 on: December 26, 2013, 02:54:11 PM »
That crust looks like you used very stiff dough, which must have been a ton of work to laminate. Props for the hard work. Would you mind sharing your dough formula or recipe so we might be better able to provide some useful feedback?

Even without knowing many details, I feel pretty confident speculating that you'd probably like this pizza better if you baked it directly on stone.
Ryan
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Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.


Offline dogboy

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Re: Best ever thin "cracker" crust pizza!
« Reply #192 on: December 26, 2013, 04:21:33 PM »
Yes it was hard to roll and laminate.
Well I'm trying to figure out how to do the bakers stuff.. pretty new to this forum. I will by a scale soon. So currently just measurments..and by feel. I know it's hard to duplicate when I do it like this so again will be getting a scale.
2.5 cups KABF. 1.5 package ADY. About .25 cup sugar. Crushed black pepper. fennel seed. A pinch of salt. 1.25  cup warm water. And a dusting of dried oregano.
I have used the stone alone for many pies but have always had the crust done before the top.. so that's why I tried the crisper. I found a pizza screen today and will try it next.
2 batches of dough made today. 1 batch is basically the same as above and I am allowing room temp rise for 8 hours to try to make a deep dish tonight. Basically I don't want to wait for a refrigerator rise.
Dough 2 was similar as above but after reading multiple threads I tout I'd try seminola flour also so I used 1.5 KABF and 1 cup seminola flour. Immediately placed to fridge. Going to test it at 24 hour and 48 hour cold rise.
Both doughs are dryer then I have ever made. But they are seemingly getting moister with rise.
Again I'm somewhat new to this forum but have been experimenting with pizza and sauce for around 5 years. I am out of the country alot for work and work 4 months on and 1 month off. No kitchen when I am at work.. usually. I did use a hotel kitchen 2 times when I was in Africa and made about 10 pies for the hotel staff. That was an interesting experience!!! So was a sauce they made for 1 of their pizzas on my second time cooking for them. A spicy hot ginger sauce. Anyway. On average when I am home for my 1 month I have been known to make 30 pies that month...
 This year I was home quite a bit longer and was able to have a beautiful garden. Made about 8 jars of fresh tomato sauce which I already ate...
Sauce has honey.fennel seed. Black pepper. Salt. Basil. Some such has strawberry jelly.

Offline dogboy

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Re: Best ever thin "cracker" crust pizza!
« Reply #193 on: December 26, 2013, 04:24:15 PM »
Dough 1 no refrigerator

Offline dogboy

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Re: Best ever thin "cracker" crust pizza!
« Reply #194 on: December 26, 2013, 04:25:31 PM »
Dough 2 seminola plus KABF refridge

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Best ever thin "cracker" crust pizza!
« Reply #195 on: December 26, 2013, 04:59:41 PM »
Yes it was hard to roll and laminate.
Well I'm trying to figure out how to do the bakers stuff.. pretty new to this forum. I will by a scale soon. So currently just measurments..and by feel. I know it's hard to duplicate when I do it like this so again will be getting a scale.
2.5 cups KABF. 1.5 package ADY. About .25 cup sugar. Crushed black pepper. fennel seed. A pinch of salt. 1.25  cup warm water. And a dusting of dried oregano.
I have used the stone alone for many pies but have always had the crust done before the top.. so that's why I tried the crisper. I found a pizza screen today and will try it next.
2 batches of dough made today. 1 batch is basically the same as above and I am allowing room temp rise for 8 hours to try to make a deep dish tonight. Basically I don't want to wait for a refrigerator rise.
Dough 2 was similar as above but after reading multiple threads I tout I'd try seminola flour also so I used 1.5 KABF and 1 cup seminola flour. Immediately placed to fridge. Going to test it at 24 hour and 48 hour cold rise.
Both doughs are dryer then I have ever made. But they are seemingly getting moister with rise.
Again I'm somewhat new to this forum but have been experimenting with pizza and sauce for around 5 years. I am out of the country alot for work and work 4 months on and 1 month off. No kitchen when I am at work.. usually. I did use a hotel kitchen 2 times when I was in Africa and made about 10 pies for the hotel staff. That was an interesting experience!!! So was a sauce they made for 1 of their pizzas on my second time cooking for them. A spicy hot ginger sauce. Anyway. On average when I am home for my 1 month I have been known to make 30 pies that month...
 This year I was home quite a bit longer and was able to have a beautiful garden. Made about 8 jars of fresh tomato sauce which I already ate...
Sauce has honey.fennel seed. Black pepper. Salt. Basil. Some such has strawberry jelly.
Dogboy, I wouldn't bother with that screen if you are looking for real cracker pizza...drop that 1/4 cup of sugar( :o) and cook right on the stone. That outta fix your too dark bottom problem.  ;)

Also, IMO, you don't need all that yeast you're using....to me, this is not really a "fermenting" type dough where you want extended days in frig to build flavor. I have put a lil garlic powder in cracker dough before though. Make the dough and make the pizza, easy peazzy.  8)
« Last Edit: December 26, 2013, 05:06:17 PM by Chicago Bob »
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Offline dogboy

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Re: Best ever thin "cracker" crust pizza!
« Reply #196 on: December 26, 2013, 05:33:24 PM »
How much yeast do you recommend? And ty for the input

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Best ever thin "cracker" crust pizza!
« Reply #197 on: December 26, 2013, 05:54:24 PM »
How much yeast do you recommend? And ty for the input
I guess around 1-1.25%.  It really just depends on what you're after dogboy...what type of mouth feel you want when biting into a cracker and you only find that out through trying it different ways(unless you're lucky enough to hit on it your first try)! But there are no rules, just remember that...in fact, here's one I made that didn't even have any yeast in it....http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,20399.0.html#top

That great pizza came from a recipe posted by the owner of the forum...Steve.

Somewhere on the forum someone said that Shakey's used nothing but flour, water, salt, and (I believe) oil. No leavening agents were used (i.e., no yeast, etc.) and the dough was made and used immediately.

So, tonight my wife and I did the big "handoff" with the kids... I came home from work, she left for work. Nothing was prepped for dinner and mine and the kids choices were canned soup or cereal. You get the drift.

So, I decided that this would be a good opportunity to make a "Shakey's" style pizza.

My recipe:

16 oz. high-gluten flour
6.5 oz. water
1 tbsp. vegetable shortening
1 tsp. salt

I threw all the ingredients into my food processor and "mixed" until it had the consistency of cornmeal. I dumped the "dough" onto the counter, pressed into a ball, and immediately rolled out thin (this took awhile... the dough did not want to roll out, so I had to let it rest for brief periods of time). Once it was rolled out, I placed in a greased cutter pan and par-baked for 4 minutes at 500 degrees F. After the par-bake, I added sauce, cheese, and pepperoni. The pizza was then baked for about 10 minutes longer until the crust (and bottom) was a golden brown. The pizza was allowed to cool on a wire rack.

The pizza was very good in my opinion. It did not have the yeasty or fermented taste of the DKM thin crust, but it did have a VERY crisp and cracker-like (saltine-like) texture with a clean taste. Actually, it's exactly the way I remember Shakey's pizza!

So, long story short, this one is a winner! And, from start to finish, the pizza was done in under 30 minutes!  8)

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Best ever thin "cracker" crust pizza!
« Reply #198 on: December 26, 2013, 07:29:52 PM »
I did use a hotel kitchen 2 times when I was in Africa and made about 10 pies for the hotel staff. That was an interesting experience!!! So was a sauce they made for 1 of their pizzas on my second time cooking for them. A spicy hot ginger sauce.
dogboy,

I would be very interested in hearing more about pizza in Africa. A few months ago, I researched the countries that have been represented on the forum over the years and observed that African countries were among the least represented, as I so noted at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,26828.msg271346.html#msg271346 . Is there a reason for this based on your experience with pizza in Africa?

Peter

Offline dogboy

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Re: Best ever thin "cracker" crust pizza!
« Reply #199 on: December 27, 2013, 10:39:02 AM »
Petezzza the link would not open.