new try in my ny quest

[patnx2]

Last weeks bake was very good but not there. The formula was power flour,1.75% salt,.3% yeast, and 65% water.The pizza was baked,after a 32 hour cold rise,at 550f for about 14 min. on the bottom shelf on a stone. Results were good but a bit tough. Stretching was fairly easy to 16 inch's.       So after reading a bunch of entries I decided to try a new approach. New formula mixed tonight at 11 30 pm weds. for sunday bake. Mixed all for about 3 minutes and added oil. Out of ka mixer straight to frig. Mixed dough for 16 oz pizza as follows. Flour 50% power and 50% conagra bf.Water at 60%,1.75 salt,2.5oil,1.5% sugar and .5%yeast.      My thinking is that I will re-ball after 12  to 16 hours. Used two flours after reading scot123 say that it may reduce the toughness that sometimes happens with hg flour if not mixed right. My head is spinning with so many choices and I only bake once a week. Any ideas always welcome and I will post my results. I did buy a camera but having trouble with downloading. Little by little. Patrick
 

[pythonic]

Hi,

Did u bake for 14 mins or preheat your stone at 550 for 14 mins?  Cook time at 550 should be anywhere from 5-8.5 mins depending on pizza size.

[scott123]

Used two flours after reading scot123 say that it may reduce the toughness that sometimes happens with hg flour if not mixed right.

It does help to mix 14% protein flours (like Power Flour) with weaker flours, but, in order to really encourage tenderness, you want to shoot for a final protein of around 12.7%.  I'm not 100% certain on the specs of conagra bf, but a 50/50 power/conagra bf blend is most likely going to be still pretty high on the protein spectrum. When I was blending 14% All Trumps, it was 50/50 with 11% All Purpose.

In a perfect world, for NY style, nothing touches a 12.7% protein bromated flour. Since you can't get bromated flour where you are, then I'd still seek out a 12.7%.  Once you use up the Power Flour, find some Mondako.

Dialing in the right flour will go a long way with toughness, but bake time and thickness factor will go even further.  You mention stretching the dough to 16".  What was the dough ball weight/thickness factor?

As Pythonic pointed out, 14 minutes is too long for a 550 preheated stone. If your fully pre-heated stone is producing 14 minute bakes, then it's definitely time to replace it, since 14 minutes, for NY style, will guarantee a tough, dense and bready crust.

[TXCraig1]

The thermostat in your oven must be off. 14 min at 550 would be black.

[patnx2]

Thanks for the replies. Firstly my tf is .10 using the Lehmann pdc. I did post 14 min. bake but it was 12. I bake in perforated pan for 4 minutes then take off onto stone.One thing I have been doing my bake by looking for burntness (browning) and perhaps a big part of my problem is I am overbaking. I've also been thinking about putting the cheese first and using the broiler which in the top of my gas oven. As to oven temp. I am not sure as I do not measure. Only the dial  says 550 max.  My pizza is gettin better and baking only one time a week doesn't help. Thanks again.  Patrick

[scott123]

Patrick, I think you're ready to start using a peel.

Inferior stones can be a major handicap, but pans are equally as counterproductive when it comes to fast bake times.

.10 thickness factor is too thick for NY style. You'll trim your bake time and get something a lot more tender by going with .075. As you go this thin, it's difficult to stretch, but, if you're going to make great NY style pizza, stretching thin skins is a skill you have to master.

The broiler should be utilized during the bake. You want to position the stone on a shelf that's about 6" from the broiler and you'll want the broiler on for at least part of the bake.  For my 4 minute bake, I've got the broiler on for the last 2 minutes, but I've got a stronger electric broiler. For a gas broiler you might need to have the broiler on for the whole time. You also will want to monitor the broiler to see that it actually stays on.

[patnx2]

Hi scott123 and thanks again. A peel yes, but the tf I use comes from posts by Norma (I think) and others. I have been  done thinner stretchs as thin as I want without problem so I will  try to go thinner. By the way I mixed am other batch with one half ap and half power for comparison.   
Do you do your whole bake under broiler?? Thanks again, Patrick

[norma427]

Patrick,

I use different TF for NY style doughs.  I have been leaning towards .085 in experiments I have been doing, but like .10 TF for most of my NY style pizzas.  That is just a personal preference for me in how I like my NY style pizzas, and doesn’t really mean that is what TF should be for NY style pizzas.

Norma

[scott123]

Do you do your whole bake under broiler??

I do my whole bake with the stone on the second from the top shelf- 6" from the broiler, and I turn on the broiler at the 2 minute mark of a 4 minute bake. I bake 2 minutes without the broiler on, then 2 minutes with it on.

[patnx2]

Thanks again scott123 and I will try that on Sunday.
Norma sorry for misquoting you on the tf. I read to many posts wo taking notes. We'll see how it goes Sunday. Patrick
 

[patnx2]

scott123 I assume that you preheat your oven. Am I correct? Patrick

[scott123]

Yes, my stone (soapstone), in my oven, takes about 75 minutes to completely pre-heat.

[norma427]

Norma sorry for misquoting you on the tf. I read to many posts wo taking notes. We'll see how it goes Sunday. Patrick
 

Patrick,

No need to say you are sorry.  I am all over the place in TF I have tried.    I probably confused you in the first place. 

Norma

[patnx2]

Tonights bake. Two doughballs for 16 inch pies,one 84 hours 9half power/half conagra bf. and the other  @60 hours power with ap flour. Both were easy to stretch and handle. The one with ap flour was a bit softer and puffier. My fav but the other a bit crisper was my wifes fav. half of each went to the neighbor and hope to get some papooses in return.
The bake was done about 6 inch's from broiler baked at 550 or so with 2 plus minutes with broiler on. Both baked in about 9 minutes. Oven was heated for and hour and stone was later heated for 10 minutes just before pizza entry. Overall the retard,the dough handling went great. My wifes preference probably will win but all was very good. Oven thermomiter,peel on the list to buy.
I used classico sauce out of the can and found them not quite as good as 6n1. Patrick

[chickenparm]

What classico did you use? You said "sauce". They make a can of sauce,crushed,and or peeled ground tomatoes as well,also a few others I forgot.

[patnx2]

Classoco crushed tomatoes. I think I Will go back to 6 n 1, I can buy them for $2 a can in Escalon which is about 10 miles. Patrick

[patnx2]

Tonights pie getting better. I got a 7 min. bake by using a peel thanks scott123) and baking on stone on or near floor of the gas oven. Changes,precious wm mozz, a thicker sauce and 1/2 ap and 1/2 bread flour. Crust was soft with a bit of crunch and flavor soo soooo good. A bit of dry basil on top pre bake. Three day cold ferment re balled after 24 hours. Thanks all Patrick
ps  I'm not sure I could get a better bake with my set up, I'm happy as he......

[scott123]

Patrick, it does sound like, for your setup, that's about the best time you're going to get.

It seems like you're pretty happy with your results, and that's great, but you should really start thinking about stepping up to a better stone.  For your oven, that's going to be 1/2" steel plate. You're still probably getting used to the peel and I'm also guessing that you're continuing to get the hang of thinner stretching, so there's no rush on the steel plate, but, once you're ready to kick your pies up one more notch, steel will get you there.

If you like the taste of basil, try a little fresh basil in your sauce, as dried basil really doesn't taste all that great. Fresh basil in NY style sauce is actually surprisingly common in this area.

Did you give up on the broiling during the bake?  You really want to broil the top of the pizza while the bottom is baking on the stone for at least part of the bake- and the only way the broiler will be effective is if you have the stone towards the top of the oven.  The stone will generally pre-heat to about the same temp where ever it is in the oven, btw, so putting the stone on a lower shelf isn't buying that much more heat.

[patnx2]

Thanks scott1233, I went on a long road trip to the southeast USA. This week I'll try baking higher and try broiler after about three to four min. Patrick