Author Topic: detailed Napoletena Pizza instructions  (Read 5643 times)

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Offline pizzaluvr

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detailed Napoletena Pizza instructions
« on: March 20, 2005, 10:56:04 PM »
I stumbled across this website while looking for a pizza stone for my oven.   

http://www.woodstone-corp.com/cooking_naples_style.htm


Mark

EDIT (9/23/14): For the Wayback Machine version of the above inoperative link, see http://web.archive.org/web/20140209051556/http://woodstone-corp.com/cooking_naples_style.htm
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Offline pizzaluvr

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Re: detailed Napoletena Pizza instructions
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2005, 11:01:25 PM »
One thing I notice right off the bat is the yeast:  they are using cake yeast and no sugar.  They are adding salt, which I heard kills the yeast?   Also,  I'd like to hear comments on what yeast you use and please indicate where I can get it.

Thanks - Mark
"Bring me four fried chickens and a Coke"......
  "And some white toast..."  Jake & Elwood

Offline Nathan

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Re: detailed Napoletena Pizza instructions
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2005, 11:32:16 PM »
I use Instant yeast.  SAF brand.  I got the idea from Alton Brown pizza episode when it first aired (as I'm sure some other around here did too).  Anyway, check your local grocery store to see if they carry it. If not it can be ordered online from several sources. One of them being: http://shop.bakerscatalogue.com/detail.jsp?id=1458&pv=1111378825413 It supposedly will last a year (frozen?) but the bag I have is about 15 months old and its still good. I took Alton Browns advice and keep it in the freezer. He says he keeps some in the fridge and reinforcement in the freezer.  I keep it all in the freezer and just add it to the flour.  No need to worry about it being frozen. 

Edit and P.S.  I have read somewhere (possibly on here) that all commercial yeast is the same strain.  If this is true then it doesn't matter what brand/type you use other than methods of use and convenience. 
« Last Edit: March 20, 2005, 11:34:56 PM by Nathan »
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Online Pete-zza

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Re: detailed Napoletena Pizza instructions
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2005, 11:52:58 PM »
Mark,

The classic Neapolitan dough as it is generally made in Italy today uses a 00 flour (like the Caputo 00 flour), water, compressed cake yeast and salt. That's it. No sugar and no olive oil.

Salt and yeast have a love-hate relationship, but they need each other to make a good dough. It is considered best not to combine the salt and yeast in water because salt is indeed injurious to the yeast. In the woodstone piece, the salt and water are combined and then the yeast and flour are added. However, the time of contact of the yeast and salt is momentary and unlikely to cause any harm to the yeast. In the U.S, and possibly in Italy as well, the cake yeast is sometimes crumbled right into the flour, without any proofing in water.

Cake yeast can be replaced by either active dry yeast (ADY) or instant dry yeast (IDY). To convert from cake yeast to ADY, divide the weight of the cake yeast by 1/2; to convert from cake yeast to IDY, divide the weight of the cake yeast by 1/3. ADY typically needs to be proofed (rehydrated) in water before using. IDY doesn't need proofing before using. It is mixed dry directly into the flour. ADY and IDY can be found in most supermarkets, in the baking section, under names such as Fleischmann's, SAF, and Red Star. If you plan to do a lot of baking, it is usually far cheaper on a unit basis to buy a one-pound bag of it. Many of our members have been able to find the one-pound bags in places like Costco's or Sam's, but they are also available from places like King Arthur and several other places online. I have gone almost exclusively to IDY. Many professional pizza operators use the cake yeast, mainly for cost reasons (it's cheaper than the other forms), but even they are increasingly moving toward IDY because of the convenience and also because IDY is far less perishable than cake yeast, which must be used quickly, before it goes bad.

Peter

Offline pizzanapoletana

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Salt & Yeast: Osmotic pressure
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2005, 07:17:12 AM »
I keep hearing that salt and yeast cannot be combined in the water before adding the flour.

Before saying that, people should consider what actually the salt does to the yeast.

Basically, salt exerts what is called osmotic pressure, which means that salt attracts the water present in the environment around it. Sugar has a similar effect, even if at a lesser extent.


At the same time, the osmotic pressure slows down the action of yeast in a dough.

We should also consider that different salt types, have different hydroscopic properties (the capacity of be dissolved in water), with the sea salt being the best.


Now, if you dissolve the salt in the water, and then into this "brine" dissolve the yeast (like Neapolitan have been doing for ages) the osmotic pressure will be the same as if you add the two separate, as well as the salt will be already dissolved and have absorbed enough water, which will have reduced its osmotic pressure.

The only other thing to consider, would be the effect of salt on the formation of gluten, but this is another story.

I hope to have helped to understand one more aspect of Neapolitan dough.


Offline pizzaluvr

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Re: detailed Napoletena Pizza instructions
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2005, 09:15:40 AM »
Thank you all for the replies.  I would like to try IDY or cake, as I have no experience with using them.  I ordered my 00 flour last night and also the 6-in-1 tomatoes.  Only thing left is finding the cheese!

Mark
"Bring me four fried chickens and a Coke"......
  "And some white toast..."  Jake & Elwood

Online Pete-zza

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Re: detailed Napoletena Pizza instructions
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2005, 10:38:45 AM »
Marco,

Thank you for your explanation on yeast and salt.

My practice, based on what I have read from people like Tom Lehmann of the AIB and elsewhere, is not to directly combine yeast and salt, whether alone or in water, and certainly not for a prolonged time. As I noted recently at another thread (see Reply #48 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,504.40.html), I experimented recently with combining and mixing yeast, water and salt for several minutes and did not detect any noticeable harm to the yeast. I attributed this to the better and more durable yeasts that yeast producers now produce. But the concern I have noted from my reading is the osmosis concern, with the salt, especially if there is too much of it, drawing water from the yeast due to its hygroscopic nature and degrading the performance of the yeast. It would seem to me that to avoid all possible problems, one should keep the salt and yeast separate as much as possible. Doesn't that make sense as a general guideline, especially to people who may abuse the process? Most pizza operators and home pizza makers aren't aware of the chemistry involved.

Sometime when you have a chance, I would like to hear your explanation on the role of salt and gluten. Also on the effects of salt on the rate of fermentation and duration of fermentation and the quality of the finished crust (apart from the salt flavor). I have noted that many recipes I have seen for Neapolitan style doughs seem to call for a fair amount of salt, as high as 2.8% (baker's percent). Is that typical and is there a specific reason for it?

Peter
« Last Edit: March 21, 2005, 10:48:33 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline pizzanapoletana

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Re: detailed Napoletena Pizza instructions
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2005, 11:09:44 AM »
Hi Peter

I don't have much time now, but I will briefly cover few points, then maybe I'll start a different tread to continue.

I don't agree with you that adding the yeast  and salt separate it is better, but I'll cover it later. Test on the brine example are explained in Pyler book, that with no offence, I believe is a much more reliable source then Lehmann or anybody else. In fact I believe it is the bible of Baking science.

Yes, Neapolitan dough does have a lot of salt (I would say in average 45-55g per litre of water), and that is for various reasons:

-Taste
-Gluten development
-Effect on the ripening (maturation) of the dough (effect on enzymes), extending the usability of the dough.

We need also to consider the strenght of flour used, the hardnes of the water, etc.

However there are some negative aspects when adding too much salt. As I said before, the quality of the dough shows when the pizza become cold.

Too much salt, as for example 60g per litre, added in the water before mixing, will result in a gummy crumb once cooled.

I need to go now, but I ll try to continue on a different tread, tonight.


Online Pete-zza

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Re: detailed Napoletena Pizza instructions
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2005, 12:33:57 PM »
Marco,

On the matter of yeast and salt, I found this excerpt from a baking website, at http://www.progressivebaker.com/class/section3.htm:

"It's perfectly fine to add yeast and salt at the same time. Despite the common myth, salt will not kill the yeast. Perhaps it was a problem in the past, but today's yeast are hearty enough that they aren't harmed by contact with the salt. (However, don't scale and combine yeast and salt in advance, or allow them to come in contact with each other for an extended period, because that could cause harm)."

Peter

EDIT (9/23/14): For the Wayback Machine version of the above inoperative progressivebaker.com link, see http://web.archive.org/web/20030306164710/http://www.progressivebaker.com/class/section3.htm

Offline DKM

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Re: detailed Napoletena Pizza instructions
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2005, 05:46:19 PM »
Quick reply.

Almost everyplace I worked mixed the yeast into salt water.

More later.

DKM
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