Author Topic: Wood Proofing Box  (Read 8244 times)

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Offline BrickStoneOven

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Wood Proofing Box
« on: March 18, 2010, 11:59:07 PM »
I have been using a Marsal proofing box for that last couple weeks and have been having trouble with the dough getting a skin on the sides. I was using plastic wrap to cover the dough before and that was working fine. If I take the plastic wrap off it will form a skin on the dough in about 10 minutes. Can someone tell me why that is happening. I just made a cover for my box, I just checked the dough and there is a skin only around the sides but the top is fine. I haven't lifted the lid since I put the dough for a bulk rise in the box for 8hrs. I am about to ball the dough, can someone tell me how I can get the dough to stop forming a skin on it. Also before when I was using the plastic wrap the bottom of the dough would keep moist but there would be a little ring on the bottom edge of the dough that would form a skin also. It is kinda hard to explain what I am talking about, I will take a picture if it happens again and post it so you can see.


Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Wood Proofing Box
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2010, 03:43:55 AM »
Low relative humidity from forced air heating? This time of year can be very dry indoors in colder climates.

Offline BrickStoneOven

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Re: Wood Proofing Box
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2010, 09:10:47 AM »
I would say it is about the same temp inside my house around 71-72. It rained here none stop for 3 days, there was flooding everywhere, wouldn't the humidity be high? It was nice yesterday though so maybe you are right. Is there anything I could do to stop this from happening? Should I lower the amount of flour for the less humidity that I am experiencing?

Edit: I just checked what the humidity was yesterday around my area and it was 27%
« Last Edit: March 19, 2010, 09:13:25 AM by BrickStoneOven »

Offline Randy

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Re: Wood Proofing Box
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2010, 12:29:16 PM »
Here in the South that is what we call very dry.

Offline Bob1

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Re: Wood Proofing Box
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2010, 01:36:23 PM »
BrickStoneOven,
I think Bill was referring to the house humidity.  I have forced hot air from an oil burner and it used to get very dry.  It used to create real sinus problems at my house until I finally installed a whole house humidifier.  I believe air that is ten degrees warmer holds four times the amount of water.  When you combine a cold outside temp with a warm indoor heat the humidity can really drop.

Bob

Offline BrickStoneOven

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Re: Wood Proofing Box
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2010, 02:53:00 PM »
So how can I stop the skin from forming? My hydration is at 63%, should I take away some of the flour to make it a little more wet? If this was a commercial setting what would I need to do? I'm going to be making pies in about 2 hours. I'll take pictures if that skin forming that I was talking about happened on the bottom of the dough.

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Wood Proofing Box
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2010, 02:59:59 PM »
David,

Did you brush the dough balls with oil? And is your dough at room temperature rather than using the refrigerator?

Peter

Offline BrickStoneOven

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Re: Wood Proofing Box
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2010, 03:10:08 PM »
No I'm not brushing them with oil. I haven't put oil on my dough for a while. I was using the glad containers before and just put a drop in the container and wiped it around with a towel, but I never put it on top. Before I made the lid I was using plastic wrap and wasn't using oil either. How are pizzeria's using the boxes and not getting skin formation on the dough? I stopped using oil on the dough because when I would open the ball to much flour would stick to the dough and it would have a lot of flour on the rim after cooking.

Edit: Oh yea it is at room temp not in refrigerator.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2010, 03:34:21 PM by BrickStoneOven »

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Wood Proofing Box
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2010, 03:33:46 PM »
David,

Most professionals who make large quantities of dough balls brush the dough balls with oil once they are put into dough boxes and cross stacked and down stacked. This is the procedure that Tom Lehmann recommends, as noted in Reply 3 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7953.msg68396/topicseen.html#msg68396.

I have read over at the PMQTT that there are some operators who use trays and might put the dough balls onto the trays without oiling them but they may either dust them with flour or leave them untreated and cover the trays with plastic to keep them from getting exposed to air that might dry them out. The trays of dough balls are then put onto racks. Some racks themselves can be covered entirely with a large cover. I'd cite some posts on these approaches from the PMQTT but the search terms are too broad and general to get a manageable number of hits to examine.

Peter

Offline BrickStoneOven

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Re: Wood Proofing Box
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2010, 03:41:12 PM »
What about neapolitan dough, would they brush oil on their dough after placed in boxes? I know they aren't supposed to have oil on or in the dough, how do they keep their dough from skinning. If you look at this video you can see the wetness of the dough in the box, how are they doing it? .


Online Pete-zza

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Re: Wood Proofing Box
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2010, 03:47:59 PM »
David,

I took another stab at a PMQTT search and found the following post that discusses storing dough balls without flour or oil: http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7668&p=52260&hilit=#p52268.

I'm not sure how Neapolitan dough balls are stored without oiling. Possibly they are kept in down stacked dough boxes. I'm sure that members who work with Neapolitan dough balls fermented at room temperature in a commercial setting should be able to advise you on this matter.

Peter

Offline BrickStoneOven

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Re: Wood Proofing Box
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2010, 03:59:48 PM »
Thanks for the link Peter I have been on there and read some posts on storage. Lets see if the members with the Neapolitan experts can chime in on this one. What if I placed a small cup of water in the box while the balls were rising? Like one of the little measuring cups that come with a Nyquil... you think that would work lol.

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Wood Proofing Box
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2010, 04:04:30 PM »
David,

As you can see at http://www.woodstone-corp.com/cooking_naples_style_dough.htm, the Neapolitan dough balls are placed on floured trays or boxes and flour is sifted over the dough balls. The box or tray is then covered.

Peter

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Wood Proofing Box
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2010, 04:07:51 PM »
I'm not in a commercial setting, but do live in an extremely dry climate - relative humidity often in the single digits. A skin can form in just a few minutes. All fermenting and proofing done in sealed plastic containers which are then sealed inside an MR-138 chamber.

Offline shuboyje

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Re: Wood Proofing Box
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2010, 04:13:33 PM »
I personally use a floured canvas on the bottom of my wooden proofing bins and a damp towel on the top and have not had an issue with skins since doing such.  I am very happy with the results of this method.
-Jeff

Offline BrickStoneOven

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Re: Wood Proofing Box
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2010, 04:25:27 PM »
I definitely put flour on the bottom of the box and place the dough on top but I haven't put flour on top of the dough. I think next time I will put flour on top as well and see what happens. I have a feeling that I am going to still have that ring on the underside of the dough. I'll be making the pies soon so well see what has happened. I haven't lifted the lid once so I don't think there should be any skinning. Before when I was bulk fermenting I did lift up the lid a couple times so maybe that is why it skinned before.

Offline BrickStoneOven

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Re: Wood Proofing Box
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2010, 07:13:13 PM »
So I just finished and there was a skinned formed around the side of the ball. After about 10 minutes of opening the lid a couple times the other balls started to form a skin on top. There was the ring I was talking about, I tried to take a picture but it didn't come out that well and you can't really see it. I think I am going to do the flour and oil on top. I make 6 balls each time so I will do 3 with flour and 3 with oil and see which one works better and go with that. I have to figure out how the Neapolitan guys are doing it, I am getting frustrated with this process. I will not quit till I get it down though.

Offline andreguidon

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Re: Wood Proofing Box
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2010, 08:49:52 PM »
they dont look like they seal very well by this picture...

http://www.marsalsons.com/default.aspx?pageId=24

below are the dough boxes at franco manca...
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Offline Essen1

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Re: Wood Proofing Box
« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2010, 08:57:17 PM »
I use a wooden dough box every so often and have encountered the same problem in the beginning. What I do now is I simply coat the dough slightly with flour on all sides before it goes into the box. But I also never let the dough proof in there for more than 3hrs max.

No skinning.
Mike

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Offline BrickStoneOven

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Re: Wood Proofing Box
« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2010, 11:15:14 PM »
That is the box I use, I got a Marsal wooden proofing box. Here are pictures of the box and lid I made. Only 3 hours, can you tell me why? This is what I do. I bulk ferment the dough for 8 hours in the box. Then I will ball and ferment for another 16 hours, then use. I have been trying to get a 48 hour ferment out of them but there is no way I can. The one time I did do a 48 hour rise I knew it wasn't going to work but I did it anyways. They were way over fermented and they had skinning as well. It didn't work out. I probably should have made the lid so it was more air tight with the second board.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2010, 11:17:30 PM by BrickStoneOven »