Author Topic: Some baking science  (Read 2930 times)

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Offline pizzanapoletana

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Some baking science
« on: March 14, 2005, 07:31:39 PM »
I have been reading the forum posts for a while now, and I realized that even with some baking science knowledge, some of you seams confuse about the use of methods and ingredients.

For example I don't understand why using the refrigerator for fermentation below 24 hours. This does not make sense to me. The only reasons that would justify this, would be a very wet dough (110% flour to 100% water) like the one they make in Rome for pizza al taglio or pizza romana.

Why I am saying this? Knowledge of baking science.

1)when you mix the ingredients to make a dough, you also incorporate some air in it. Yeast in presence of oxygen, multiply and when the oxygen is finished, it start to ferment. This is the first thing to think about when considering low yeast or starter usage.


2)It is true that when adding yeast, you also increase the enzyme activity thanks to the yeast own enzymes, but putting the dough in the refrigerator will decrease the enzyme activity considerably. Various researchers demonstrated the effect of temperature on enzymes.

3)It is very rare that the yeast will consume all simplified sugar in the dough in normal circumstances. Adding more then 5% commercial yeast to the flour weight will increase the probability of this happening. Also, considering the strength of the flour used by most of you on this forum, you should consider the addition of malt; not to sweeten the dough, but to increase the enzymatic activity in the dough

This are only few points that I would like you guys to think about. May help you to understand a bit more about the reasons behind ancient methods being better then modern ones.


Offline Ron

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Re: Some baking science
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2005, 08:00:52 PM »
I want to sweeten mine.  Should I add more sugar?  What ratio of yeast to sugar should I use?

Thanks

Offline canadianbacon

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Re: Some baking science
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2005, 08:23:35 PM »
The reason is very simple.  It slows the fermentation.  If for example you made a pizza dough and left it out for 3 days at room temp,
the yeast in the dough would be expired, meaning there would be no power left it in, or very little.

By placing the dough in the fridge, this slow the fermentation, and you can then keep doughs much longer.  This is totally natural
and is done all the time in pizzeria places around my part of town.

As for the example of a dough under 24 hours, I guess one would have to know how much under 24 hours you are talking about.

If you are closing in on 24 hours, you will get a better dough if it is refridgerated, the yeast will get sleepy, and slows down.

If you are talking about 4 or 5 hours then I agree with you.

I am not an expert pizza maker but having worked with pastry and bread for quite some time, you let yeast do its thing and you have to
keep an eye on the hours it works and is out at room temp, miss your door way and the yeast starts to die out, and then breads start falling.



For example I don't understand why using the refrigerator for fermentation below 24 hours. This does not make sense to me. The only reasons that would justify this, would be a very wet dough (110% flour to 100% water) like the one they make in Rome for pizza al taglio or pizza romana.

Pizzamaker, Rib Smoker, HomeBrewer, there's not enough time for a real job.

Offline pizzanapoletana

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Re: Some baking science
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2005, 08:29:23 PM »
Canadian bacon

I have found people on this site that refrigerate for even one hour... also 8 -12....

I am talking abou baking science and working knowledge. There is not need for that.

Offline canadianbacon

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Re: Some baking science
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2005, 08:32:58 PM »
for one hour ? .... yikes !  ??? ,

I will agree with you, one hour... there's no need.

Pizzamaker, Rib Smoker, HomeBrewer, there's not enough time for a real job.

Offline addicted

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Re: Some baking science
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2005, 08:52:40 PM »
I agree with pizzanapoletana . I have made pies with a one hour rise all the way to 48 hour fridge retardation. The only difference I have noticed is more elasticity in the dough with a longer rise. Some the best tasting and textured crusts have only been a one hour rise. But we are talking pizza not bread. Two different things. INMHO I believe that dough handling has much more importance than rise time. But that is just in my kitchen.
Well....okay,then.

Offline Randy

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Re: Some baking science
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2005, 09:56:38 PM »
If you are using bread flour I would agree or little or no sugar.  But with enough sugar and high gluten the flavor change is dramatic.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Some baking science
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2005, 09:57:16 PM »
Pizza Napoletana,

I think Canadianbacon has hit the nail on the head. I can't speak for Canada, but in the U.S., it is very common for pizza operators, especially those who make NY style doughs, to use a 24-hour (or more) fermentation for their doughs. Quite often, the dough balls are made at night, for next day use. Many NY style doughs use very little yeast, so there is no need to worry about the dough balls rising too quickly overnight and producing inconsistent results the next day. During the night, you also don't have workers going in and out of the coolers and messing up the temperature of the dough balls. Admittedly, the fermentation process will be slowed down, as Canadianbacon points out, but there is still enough to produce the flavorful by-products of fermentation. By the time you load up the pizzas with all the toppings that Americans like, the reduced levels of fermentation by-products in the crust will most likely not be noticed. It all comes down to dough management and trying to minimize problems that will prevent consistent, reliable, uniform and reproducible results.

I agree that it might be beneficial to use room temperature fermentation for periods less than 24 hours, and there are some pizza operators who do that. A good example is Dom DeMarco at DiFara's, one of the best known pizzerie in the NYC area. Dom uses a combination of either Delverde or Caputo 00 flour and a high-gluten flour (I believe it is the General Mills All Trumps flour), without any refrigeration of the dough at all.

As for your suggestion that the members who use stronger flours use malt, I might mention that many strong flours sold by millers in the U.S. include a diastatic form of malt (as opposed to a non-diastatic form of malt) in the flours to achieve increase amylase activity. Many of our members use the King Arthur Sir Lancelot high-gluten flour, which has some of the tightest specifications in the country, and I suspect that the amount of damaged starch in KA's flours is closely monitored to be sure that there will be sufficient amylase performance.

I personally look forward to future contributions from you on the science of making pizzas. I think there is a lot we can learn from each other.

Peter

Offline pizzanapoletana

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Re: Some baking science
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2005, 07:03:12 PM »
The correction of flour at mill, will probably mean an high amylasse activity, which in turn may require refrigeration but surely not  less then 24 hours.

Also if the amylasse activity is to high, the addition of an acidified dough or acetic acid, will correct it.