Author Topic: Oven temps..pics  (Read 8280 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline jcamador

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 79
Re: Oven temps..pics
« Reply #25 on: April 06, 2010, 09:42:53 PM »
Thanks for the compliment Tranman! It's funny that pizza seems like such a simple thing to make but there are so many variables that can change the characteristics of the dough...getting consistent is a goal...I have a long way to go for that!

You're correct about the rim...it is about the same size as the rest of the dough and I don't do any sort of "rim shaping".

I'm anxious to see how your increased starter dough turns out...post pics if you have them!!
jason


Offline jcamador

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 79
Re: Oven temps..pics
« Reply #26 on: April 08, 2010, 02:53:06 PM »
gotta make pizza while on the road!
jason

Offline TONY

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 87
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Oven temps..pics
« Reply #27 on: April 08, 2010, 03:39:35 PM »
Jason,

Great looking pie.......is that Italian Sopresetta instead of peperoni???

Tony

Offline jcamador

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 79
Re: Oven temps..pics
« Reply #28 on: April 08, 2010, 04:16:32 PM »
Thanks Tony! yes, it is hot sopressata from Alps Provisions in NY...my local Italian deli carries it...it is very good but a bit pricey!
jason

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24408
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Oven temps..pics
« Reply #29 on: April 08, 2010, 04:36:41 PM »
jcamador,

Great looking pies.  :)  Those pictures are sure making me hungry.

Norma

Offline Jackie Tran

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 7230
  • Location: Albuquerque NM
Re: Oven temps..pics
« Reply #30 on: April 08, 2010, 04:39:33 PM »
Jason your pies keep looking nicer and nicer.  The latest one you posted is one of the nicest looking pies I've seen yet.
  Ill see if I can post a pic later, but it's a work in progress.  

Offline jcamador

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 79
Re: Oven temps..pics
« Reply #31 on: April 08, 2010, 05:19:26 PM »
Thanks Norma! Thanks Tranman!

I am starting to see progress on each pie I make. I think it's just practice practice practice...working on it everyday and trying new things... Looking forward to the pics Tranman!
jason

Offline Jackie Tran

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 7230
  • Location: Albuquerque NM
Re: Oven temps..pics
« Reply #32 on: April 09, 2010, 09:13:20 PM »
OK Jason, Pics as promised.   My last 3 pies I made had 20% preferment (Pic 1&2) and 35% preferment (pic 3) respectively. 


On the last pie (pic 3), I opted to stretch out flat and not leave a rim as I normally do.  I'm not sure which I prefer, but it was nice to try something new. 

I'm still experimenting with different oven setups to try and get a more even browning of the rim.  Otherwise, the pies tasted pretty good. 
« Last Edit: April 09, 2010, 09:14:52 PM by Tranman »

Offline jcamador

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 79
Re: Oven temps..pics
« Reply #33 on: April 09, 2010, 10:49:22 PM »
Those look REALLY good Tranman!

I especially like the char on the crust and the spotted cheese! How long did you bulk ferment these for? Do you feel increasing the starter was a good idea or do you feel like 5% is a better number for your schedule? This is something I really need to experiment with...

Could you taste any difference by increasing the starter?  Again, those pies look great...very good!
jason


Offline Jackie Tran

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 7230
  • Location: Albuquerque NM
Re: Oven temps..pics
« Reply #34 on: April 09, 2010, 11:37:20 PM »
Thanks Jason you are too kind. In all honesty, you're pies give me a goal to shoot for.  :D  As is, I need more practice and only make pizza 1-2x a week. 

The first 2 pies at 20% starter were bulk fermented ( I believe) for 1 hour.  I was hoping to cold ferment for 3 days so I didn't want to activate the yeast (starter ) too much. 

The 2nd pie was following your methods and bulk fermented for about 4 hours before going into fridge and cold fermented for about 18-20 hours.

About my starter.  It's my first any only starter so far so i don't have others to judge it against.  I recently did an experiment to compare ADY to my starter.  After 4 days of cold fermentation both the ADY and the starter crust had the same texture, rise, oven spring, taste, feel, etc.  No difference.  Both had a nice sourdough taste but really not much difference.    I've read that starters are suppose to give a dramatically better texture and taste over commercial yeast.  I did not find this to be true so it may be that my starter isn't that good?  ???

I did find that by increasing my starter from 5% to 20-30%, that I got a better flavor after one day in the fridge with the higher % of starter.  Maybe even a comparable flavor to a 3 day cold rise with 5% starter.

I also started feeding my starter (tonight) with beer to see if it makes a noticeable difference in taste.  I'm bummed I failed to split my starter before doing this so i won't be able to do a side by side comparison. So my results will have to be somewhat subjective for the time being.

I'll post more pics if I can get my pies looking even better. 
« Last Edit: April 10, 2010, 01:21:34 AM by Tranman »

Offline jcamador

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 79
Re: Oven temps..pics
« Reply #35 on: April 12, 2010, 01:15:13 PM »
Tranman...I'll think you'll find that starters can be temperamental...each has it's own personality and characteristics which will change as it develops and matures over time. That's what makes it fun and interesting! Never a dull moment!

 Today was a different oven which gets up to about 650...I'm finding that all ovens take time to get used to and they can be temperamental  as well..anyway here are some pics...
jason

Offline pcampbell

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 768
  • Age: 34
  • Location: Warren VT
Re: Oven temps..pics
« Reply #36 on: April 12, 2010, 04:44:22 PM »
where do you have the oven hooked up - is it in a commercial kitchen ?
Patrick

Offline jcamador

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 79
Re: Oven temps..pics
« Reply #37 on: April 12, 2010, 09:30:32 PM »
I'm on the road visiting friends who have a bakery/restaurant...just messing around with their ovens...
jason

Offline Jackie Tran

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 7230
  • Location: Albuquerque NM
Re: Oven temps..pics
« Reply #38 on: April 12, 2010, 10:13:04 PM »
I'm on the road visiting friends who have a bakery/restaurant...just messing around with their ovens...

Wow Jason, pretty nice for just messing around!  I really like the leoparding on the crust.  I wish I could get mine that way.   So I baked the 2nd 35% starter pie after sleeping in the fridge for 4 days.   It had less oven spring than I normally get and like.  I suspect it was b/c 4 days is too long for a 35% starter pie.   Either that or I didn't have the stone temp hot enough when loading.  I was impatient and popped her into the oven after a  30m warm up instead of my usual 45m - 1h.   Anyways, the flavor of the crust was just right and not too sour. 


Offline jcamador

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 79
Re: Oven temps..pics
« Reply #39 on: April 16, 2010, 11:09:44 AM »
That pizza looks great Tran! I think you might be right though about 4 days being a little long for that amount of starter. Just really depends on how your starter behaves...the next time you make your dough, place a small amount of dough in a measuring cup, mark the level, and watch how it grows, keeping track of time and temperatures. This will then tell you how your starter is behaving while at room temp, in fridge, etc...just an idea.

Your pizzas are looking really good...keep it up! I really enjoy watching your experiments!!

Here is some sourdough bread made with pizza dough...
jason

Offline Jackie Tran

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 7230
  • Location: Albuquerque NM
Re: Oven temps..pics
« Reply #40 on: April 17, 2010, 12:46:23 AM »
Thanks for the encouragment Jason.  I'm not completely happy with my pies yet but I hope to have them dialed in and be in the zone in a couple of months.  I'm just now realizing that i do like the 24H - 2 day doughs best. 

In the meantime, the experiments continue.  :-D

The crust on your bread looks outstanding.  You definitely have a knack for this stuff.

Offline jcamador

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 79
Re: Oven temps..pics
« Reply #41 on: April 17, 2010, 09:57:09 AM »
Tran, I think you can pack plenty of flavor into a 24 hour to 2 day dough. I've never been able to wait longer than 2 days to try my experiments :). I can definitely see a progression in your pies, and as you continue to experiment and try new things you will start to hit your stride where things start to make sense and fall in to place. I'm absolutely not there yet, but I'm starting to have those "aha" moments where ideas or concepts begin to click. The one big thing for me was the dough in the measuring cup trick...before I was basically just fermenting for 5 hours and thinking that was enough. When I tried the dough in the measuring cup I found that it took my starter 9-10 hours to double the dough. Pretty significant time difference. Might be interesting for you to try...

Anyway, keep those pies coming! They look great and I'm sure they taste fantastic!
jason


Offline Jackie Tran

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 7230
  • Location: Albuquerque NM
Re: Oven temps..pics
« Reply #42 on: April 17, 2010, 11:10:37 AM »
Jason, do you find the time it takes your starter to double (9-10) hours is the optimal time to use your pizza dough?  If so that is a very interesting concept.

Like most ppl who search the web for pizza making, I started with J. Varasano's recipe and technique.  I was treading water for 3 months before I found this place.  Jeff says you want your dough to increase by 50% and not double as that is too late.  I'm not sure I totally agree with that at this point in time but I may be completely wrong as well. 

What I have been doing lately is using the poppy seed technique and using when my dough doubles in volume whether using starter or yeast with good results.  Your method is a good one and I will definitely be doing a test this weekend to find out how long it takes for my starter to double.  Thank you.

Offline jcamador

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 79
Re: Oven temps..pics
« Reply #43 on: April 17, 2010, 11:48:42 AM »
Tran, the 9-10 hours is only the fermentation process whereby the yeast is having time to convert sugars into cO2...this is where I want to see the dough double because I want the gas production. Then it is shaped and into the fridge for a cold proof until time to bake. I think Jeff is correct when he says you want to see the dough increase by 50%, but he is talking about the proof, which is the final rise before baking. it is better to be under-proofed at this stage than over-proofed.
jason

Offline Jackie Tran

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 7230
  • Location: Albuquerque NM
Re: Oven temps..pics
« Reply #44 on: April 17, 2010, 01:08:14 PM »
Thanks for the clarification.  So you bulk rise at room temps for 9-10 hours, then cold ferment.  Proof for an hour or 2 prior to baking?  I'll give it a shot.  Thanks for the help.

Offline Jackie Tran

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 7230
  • Location: Albuquerque NM
Re: Oven temps..pics
« Reply #45 on: April 24, 2010, 12:30:30 AM »
Jason, just wanted to let you know that I retried you technique with better results.  Did a 30% starter, bulk rise for 8 hours, kneaded and then cold ferment for around 11 hours.  Only proofed for about an hour and stretched while cool.  Next time I might let it proof a bit longer.   Used AP flour this time but will do again with HG flour. 
  So I didn't cold ferment too long this time.  The flavor of the crust was just right for me at about 30% starter and 20 hours start to finish. 

Offline jcamador

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 79
Re: Oven temps..pics
« Reply #46 on: May 20, 2010, 06:13:01 PM »
Tran- this is the first time I've logged on in about a month and am very impressed with your experiments and desire to learn! Your pies are looking GREAT! I can't wait to get home to my regular oven...but here are some recent tries...
jason

Offline Jackie Tran

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 7230
  • Location: Albuquerque NM
Re: Oven temps..pics
« Reply #47 on: May 20, 2010, 06:49:40 PM »
Welcome back Jason!  :D Your pies give me inspiration.  I wished I had a bakery or some customers to eat up my pies so I can experiment more.  As it is there's only so much pizza my wife is willing to eat.   :-D

I forget if I asked or this or not, but are you using a mixer for the dough?  Also what type of flour are you using to make those gorgeous pies?
« Last Edit: May 20, 2010, 06:51:12 PM by Tranman »

Offline jcamador

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 79
Re: Oven temps..pics
« Reply #48 on: May 20, 2010, 07:23:52 PM »
Thanks Tran...I wish I had a bakery also! My parents have one...this is just a side hobby for me :) All of the uneaten pies usually get tossed...I need a better system for this  :-[  In any case, I usually mix with a kitchenaid, but sometimes do it by hand if I'm in the mood. Just using pendleton mills bread flour...stuff you can get in bulk at cash n carry or other similar stores.
jason

Offline jcamador

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 79
Re: Oven temps..pics
« Reply #49 on: May 24, 2010, 04:32:36 PM »
Playing around with feeding schedules and ratios for my starter...soooo...baking bread.....
jason