Author Topic: King aurthur AP flour ?  (Read 2021 times)

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Offline sear

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King aurthur AP flour ?
« on: April 07, 2010, 05:36:48 PM »
what kind of pizza would this be good for ?
what kind of dough would i make ?

thanks for any input !


Offline Essen1

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Re: King aurthur AP flour ?
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2010, 05:51:19 PM »
Quote
what kind of dough would i make ?

Uhm,...pizza dough?  ;)

Seriously, though, King Arthur Bread Flour is pretty versatile. A lot of the members on here use it, myself inculded. I use it mainly for Ny-style pies or like I have as of late, for rustic pies. But for the rustic ones, I do actually prefer Stone Buhr BF.


EDIT: Never mind. Just saw that you were talking about the AP flour, instead of Bread Flour. My bad.  :angel:
Mike

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: King aurthur AP flour ?
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2010, 05:52:25 PM »
James,

I think that you will find that no matter the type of pizza, someone has an all-purpose flour version. The approach I would take is to first decide what kind of pizza you want to make and then look for the flour that best seems to work for that style.

Peter

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: King aurthur AP flour ?
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2010, 06:06:26 PM »
Lately I have been experimenting with mixing in 30-50% AP flour with BF to soften up the crust a bit.  It seems to suit my taste. 

Offline sear

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Re: King aurthur AP flour ?
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2010, 09:12:29 AM »
pizza dough ???  :-D

James,

I think that you will find that no matter the type of pizza, someone has an all-purpose flour version. The approach I would take is to first decide what kind of pizza you want to make and then look for the flour that best seems to work for that style.

Peter

well i already have the flour so i was wondering what its best suited too , does the hydration level change from using bread flour ?
could i do a good cracker crust or sicilian pie ?

i have no problems with trying to make any kind of pizza  ;)

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: King aurthur AP flour ?
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2010, 10:02:03 AM »
James,

Let me give you a few examples.

You can use all-purpose flour to make a New York style pizza. That is what the early NYC pizza masters used before bread flour and, considerably later, high-gluten flour became more readily available. However, today, most NYC pizza operators use high-gluten flour. But, some, like many of us on the forum, use bread flour. There are still some operators who use all-purpose flour to make the NY style and would not think to use any other flour. Old habits die hard.

All-purpose flour is not the flour of choice for American style pizzas, such as those from Papa John's, Pizza Hut and Domino's. Their flours are likely to be proprietary flours milled to their specifications, but they are likely to be fairly high in protein, typically in the bread flour and high-gluten flour range.

All-purpose flour can also be used to make the Chicago deep-dish style although I believe that an all-purpose flour with a higher than normal protein content (like Ceresota or Hecker's) is quite common and maybe even preferred. A bread flour can also be used. You would not want to use high-gluten flour for this style but, no doubt, someone has tried it. And, maybe, even prefers it.

You can also use all-purpose flour to make a cracker style pizza. However, in my experience, the crust coloration is too light because of the low protein content of the all-purpose flour when compared with other flours. I personally like to use bread flour (my preference is the Better for Bread flour) but there are many who prefer using high-gluten flour. Of course, if you prefer a light colored crust for this style, then all-purpose flour can certainly be used.

Some people use all-purpose flour as a substitute for imported 00 flours to make the Neapolitan style pizza. However, I think that you will find that most people in the know would regard that as a poor substitute. The two flours are milled from different types of grains and do not produce the same results. Moreover, you really need a very high temperature oven to bake Neapolitan style pizzas. To approximate 00 flour, some people, especially those who do not have access to 00 flour, will use a mix of all-purpose flour and either cake flour or pastry flour. This was more common before 00 flours became readily available at the retail level. The flour combinations work to a point, but they are still not the same as 00 flours.

Possibly one of the better uses for all-purpose flour is for the California style where the star of the show is the exotic toppings more so than the crust, which should serve more as a canvas for the toppings.

You should also be able to use all-purpose flour to make the Sicilian style. But you can also use bread flour and some of the old timers in the field swear by high-gluten flour.

Most people tend to develop their preferences from using particular flours in specific recipes over a long period of time. Once the preferences are set, it is often hard to move off of them. That is why there are no right or wrong answers to your question. It usually comes down to choices and habits. If you look at dough recipes on this forum, you will see just about every flour has been used to make just about every type of pizza. The narrowest use of flour will be the 00 flour. It is used almost exclusively to make Neapolitan style pizzas. However, I once made a Neapolitan-inspired deep-dish pizza using 00 flour, and there are some who combine 00 flour with other flours, notably high-gluten flour, to make a New York Neapolitan version, such as available from DiFara's in Brooklyn where Dom DeMarco combines 00 flour with high-gluten flour.

As I noted before, all-purpose means all-purpose.

Peter

Offline sear

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Re: King aurthur AP flour ?
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2010, 11:14:38 AM »
Thanks that does clear things up a bit.
i thought that all AP flour was not created equally, ive seen alot of people use the all trumps AP
or the king authur SL  (ap ?) flours that i haven't available locally.
these would be basically the same as the KA AP ?

i want to get some caputo 00 too, i guess the next time i make some dough ill try doing a AP & Bread flour mix...

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: King aurthur AP flour ?
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2010, 11:26:35 AM »
James,

The All Trumps and the King Arthur Sir Lancelot flours are high-gluten flours. They are on the opposite end of the protein/gluten scale than the KAAP. As one who is new to the forum, you might want to take a look at the forum's Pizza Glossary at http://www.pizzamaking.com/pizza_glossary.html. You will find a lot about flours, and many other matters, in that glossary.

Peter

Offline sear

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Re: King aurthur AP flour ?
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2010, 11:57:28 AM »
i looked through there too, alot of new terminology..
the phrases high gluten and high protein flour look to mean the same thing right ?

says gluten isnt formed until water is added , so it should all be called high protein flour right ?

i thought the semolina and KA bread flour would get me a high protein level but after looking at that glossary it puts them both at the same level ...

also i did not see what the % is for the caputo flours.


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: King aurthur AP flour ?
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2010, 04:17:34 PM »
James,

Of the three most common flours used to make pizza dough--all-purpose, bread and high-gluten--the flour with the highest protein level is the high-gluten flour. Rather than get bogged down trying to define the protein gradations among the three flours, I find it easier to work with specific protein levels. For example, for the King Arthur all-purpose flour, the protein content is 11.7%; for the King Arthur bread flour, it is 12.7%; for the King Arthur Sir Lancelot flour, it is 14.2%. If you check other brands, you will usually find variations in protein content, depending on the specific types of grains used. The descriptions of the protein content can also vary depending on the miller.

You can see the specs for the Caputo 00 Pizzeria flour at Reply 17 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2951.msg25328/topicseen.html#msg25328. As you will see there, the rated protein content of that flour is 11.5-12.5%. The Caputo Rosso (Red) is 12-13%. I believe the Extra Blu is around 9% (my best guess). You can't correlate the protein contents of the Italian flours with U.S. flours. Different grains are used and there are differences in protein quality.

Peter


Offline sear

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Re: King aurthur AP flour ?
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2010, 11:48:45 PM »
You can't correlate the protein contents of the Italian flours with U.S. flours. Different grains are used and there are differences in protein quality.

of course not , that would make it too easy !

so when you say that does that mean that the italian flours have more or less protein compared to american 13% ?

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: King aurthur AP flour ?
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2010, 08:12:30 AM »
James,

It used to be that the Italian flours were made from domestic grains that yielded flours with lower protein content than most of our domestic flours, especially those made from hard red spring wheat. However, in recent years, Italian millers have imported flours from other countries, including the U.S. and Canada, are have broadened their flour lines as a result. It's hard to do direct comparisons because many European countries use standards for flour specification that are different than those used in the U.S.

Peter

Offline hotsawce

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Re: King aurthur AP flour ?
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2010, 01:15:12 PM »
Does the KA BF create more oven spring than the AP? I've been using AP, but might make the move to bread, or even a mix if the oven spring is a bit better.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: King aurthur AP flour ?
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2010, 02:05:30 PM »
Does the KA BF create more oven spring than the AP? I've been using AP, but might make the move to bread, or even a mix if the oven spring is a bit better.

hotsawce,

All else being pretty much equal, yes. In theory, the higher protein content of the KABF should translate into a stronger gluten structure that should retain more gases and moisture and yield a slightly greater oven spring. You should also get more crust color and flavor. In switching to KABF, you will perhaps want to increase the hydration by a few percent since the KABF can take more water.

Peter

Offline hotsawce

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Re: King aurthur AP flour ?
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2010, 02:54:45 PM »
Thanks for the info...I have a huge bag of AP right now but will probably make the switch to bread....and might try that with "Creepers" formulation of 70% hydration

Offline DannyG

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Re: King aurthur AP flour ?
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2010, 09:38:58 AM »
I use a mix of 84% KA All Purpose and 16% KA Bread. (I use a digital scale and use 336g AP/64g B for two pies)  I have played with the ratio a lot and always come back to this one. I'm baking in a GE Electric Oven at 550 on a Fibrament stone that has been preheated for 1.5 hours.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: King aurthur AP flour ?
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2010, 10:54:22 AM »
I use a mix of 84% KA All Purpose and 16% KA Bread. (I use a digital scale and use 336g AP/64g B for two pies)  I have played with the ratio a lot and always come back to this one.


I used the Mixed Mass Conversion Calculator at http://foodsim.unclesalmon.com/ and the "effective" protein content of the 84KAAP/16KABF blend is 11.86%.

Peter