Author Topic: How Much Dough in Bosch Universal Plus?  (Read 4840 times)

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Offline dmaxdmax

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Re: How Much Dough in Bosch Universal Plus?
« Reply #20 on: April 07, 2011, 10:44:58 PM »
I forgot to note that my five second slow pulse is a mechanized version of a stretch and fold.  Works nicely, especially since the bowl is sealed so there's no risk of drying.
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Offline scott r

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Re: How Much Dough in Bosch Universal Plus?
« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2011, 11:15:25 AM »
Scott

I was surprised to see your mix method.  Is this what you recommend for your commercial clients or is this what you do at home?  Am I correct there is a Chau influence in this method or have you been doing this for some time.

Again thanks for pointing me in the Bosch direction; I'm very happy with the quality of the knead.

Bob

Bob, at one time a few years ago I had read every post on this forum, but lately I just haven't had the time to get in here and absorb everything. Sadly I often end up jumping in at the end of some thread, and I miss stuff that was leading up to it.   I have seen Chau's amazing crumb shots, but I actually don't know what his methods are (other than that he uses a really high hydration, stretch and folds, sometimes a bosch, and a modified egg to cook pizzas at a medium high temp).   I would love to know what his goto mixing method is, but for now all I know is that his pizzas are truly beautiful.  

As far as commercial mixers go, I have been very lucky to work with some pizzerias that have had really great mixers, usually a spiral, and the latest place I am working with has a diving arms mixer.    I have been finding that every type of mixer needs a different method, and it seems like all these rests are not necessary with a diving arms mixer (It moves really slow, so it almost rests as it goes).   The mixing method I described above goes back many years for me and is actually the exact same method I was using when I first got my electrolux DLX.  This was during the days of daily forum contributions, and many PM's back and forth with Jeff Varasano and Marco (pizzanapoletana). Jeff is the one that got me into doing all the rests, and Marco suggested that I try stretch and folds after mixing to firm up the gluten.    With the dlx you have to do fairly high hydrations, especially if you don't know all the tricks with that mixer,  and the first few months I had it I was unable to go below about 67% hydration with the flours I was using at the time.  I have always fondly looked back on those high hydration staggered mixed doughs,  but as many of us here know, we get bored, experiments are done, methods evolve, and for a while I began to lower my hydration, crank up my oven temperature to the extremes, and get rid of some of the rest periods.  I have clients that need the ability to pile on a decent amount of toppings if thats what the customer wants, so I ended up spending a lot of time developing the wettest dough I could that would still allow plenty of topings and decent crust stability....especially with larger 18 inch pizzas which is an important size for some pizzerias to offer.   Chau's absolutely gorgeous crumb shots along with the Brian Spangler posts a few months back really got me thinking about how great those early DLX doughs were, and since the spangler posts I have been working on that type of dough again, but pushing the hydration even a little higher than I did back in my early dlx days.  I definitely owe Chau/Brian big time because I have basically rediscovered one of my favorite pizzas.....really wet dough, well developed gluten, and a medium-high bake temp.  
« Last Edit: April 08, 2011, 12:11:33 PM by scott r »

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: How Much Dough in Bosch Universal Plus?
« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2011, 12:34:34 PM »
Wow very cool.  Thanks for the nice words Scott.  That means a lot coming from you.   ;)

While we are on the topic, I'm actually considering getting an old Hobart made Kitchen aid off of ebay to play around with mixing wet doughs.   While the KA's seem to struggle with large batches of moderate hydration doughs, I think it would shine at doing smaller high hydration batches.  The Bosch is a great machine, but as you mentioned in another thread, it may not be the best machine out there for high hydration doughs. 

Chau

Offline dmaxdmax

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Re: How Much Dough in Bosch Universal Plus?
« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2011, 01:10:46 PM »
I just mixed 2.75 pounds at 79% hydration and it was great.  I used the dough bowl and did have to scrape @ 3 minutes but after a 5 minute rest it pretty much took care of itself.  Total mix time was about 4 minutes with a lot of rests.  If I like the final product I'll double the recipe next time.
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Offline scott r

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Re: How Much Dough in Bosch Universal Plus?
« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2011, 02:08:05 PM »
THere is a very good chance that it is still the best, even at high hydrations, I just never did any side by side shoot outs above 64%.    I am eagerly awaiting your findings at high hydrations, though......im assuming you will be using the spiral dough hook?   Not sure if that was an option on those older ones?

Offline andreguidon

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Re: How Much Dough in Bosch Universal Plus?
« Reply #25 on: April 08, 2011, 02:38:43 PM »
well, maybe ill late for the reply but here is a link that i posted at Chau's original post...
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11962.msg124374.html#msg124374

and here is a post for a 3Kg total flour formula mixed in the BUP.
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13080.msg130196.html#msg130196
« Last Edit: April 08, 2011, 02:41:13 PM by andreguidon »
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Offline JConk007

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Re: How Much Dough in Bosch Universal Plus?
« Reply #26 on: April 08, 2011, 02:50:46 PM »
Thanks Scott and....
I just did up1250 gram of flour batch to try the cake yeast i got fromNYC bakers. was effortless for this bosch! Mix was a a 75% Rest. Depot 00 (trying to use up before the new Caputo) and 25% KASL that was given genrously to me by Member PCampbell (THANKS AGAIN!) Did 1.5 min mix with 75% flour 25 min rest. Add balance  Mix 3 min rest 5min. then 3 more min mechanical stretch and folds :) yes.  I never used fresh yeast and I added close to 9 G of Cake yeast which I mixed in  some of the water seperatley before adding to the flour, is that too much? Really have no clue any pointers on the cake yeast would be great conversion table called for 11G and just felt like too much?  I dont mind learning. Going into fridge so should be ok? Cant wait to play with fire Sat and Sunday? Picking up some Belogioso (sp?) Burratta now, along with some Buffalo mozz. Yum
John
add on
Andre thanks for posting that. your 1.8 G yeast looks more than  my 9g chunk? ???  Have I over done it? I am going to try the poolish as well next time thanks again
« Last Edit: April 08, 2011, 02:55:10 PM by JConk007 »
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Offline andreguidon

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Re: How Much Dough in Bosch Universal Plus?
« Reply #27 on: April 08, 2011, 04:17:48 PM »
John, thats because of my .1g mini scale....
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Offline scott r

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Re: How Much Dough in Bosch Universal Plus?
« Reply #28 on: April 08, 2011, 04:24:13 PM »
Thanks Scott and....
I just did up1250 gram of flour batch to try the cake yeast i got fromNYC bakers. was effortless for this bosch! Mix was a a 75% Rest. Depot 00 (trying to use up before the new Caputo) and 25% KASL that was given genrously to me by Member PCampbell (THANKS AGAIN!) Did 1.5 min mix with 75% flour 25 min rest. Add balance  Mix 3 min rest 5min. then 3 more min mechanical stretch and folds :) yes.  I never used fresh yeast and I added close to 9 G of Cake yeast which I mixed in  some of the water seperatley before adding to the flour, is that too much? Really have no clue any pointers on the cake yeast would be great conversion table called for 11G and just felt like too much?  I dont mind learning. Going into fridge so should be ok? Cant wait to play with fire Sat and Sunday? Picking up some Belogioso (sp?) Burratta now, along with some Buffalo mozz. Yum
John
add on
Andre thanks for posting that. your 1.8 G yeast looks more than  my 9g chunk? ???  Have I over done it? I am going to try the poolish as well next time thanks again

That sounds like a lot of cake yeast, but maybe this is a fast fridge rise dough?    I used just over a gram for my mega huge batch, and it seemed to rise as expected (fairly slowly).      Hey, don't forget to do an A/B shoot out of the caputo vs the RD 00 for me!   

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: How Much Dough in Bosch Universal Plus?
« Reply #29 on: April 08, 2011, 04:55:13 PM »
THere is a very good chance that it is still the best, even at high hydrations, I just never did any side by side shoot outs above 64%.    I am eagerly awaiting your findings at high hydrations, though......im assuming you will be using the spiral dough hook?   Not sure if that was an option on those older ones?

Just had an idea to try before getting an old KA.  I think I'll try to mix a wet dough using the cookie paddles in the Bosch this weekend.  I'll post up some results later.   

Chau


Offline andreguidon

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Re: How Much Dough in Bosch Universal Plus?
« Reply #30 on: April 08, 2011, 04:55:59 PM »
scott, 1.8g or 9g  is lot ?
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Offline scott r

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Re: How Much Dough in Bosch Universal Plus?
« Reply #31 on: April 08, 2011, 05:15:55 PM »
9g sounds like a lot!

Offline Mmmph

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Re: How Much Dough in Bosch Universal Plus?
« Reply #32 on: April 08, 2011, 05:24:51 PM »
9g sounds like a lot!

9g is a lot. For 1250g of flour, I'd use .4g or less for a 24hr room temp rise.
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Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: How Much Dough in Bosch Universal Plus?
« Reply #33 on: April 14, 2011, 05:30:08 AM »
Just had an idea to try before getting an old KA.  I think I'll try to mix a wet dough using the cookie paddles in the Bosch this weekend.  I'll post up some results later.   

Chau

I tried to mix a wet dough with the cookie paddles.  It didn't work.  Boo...

Chau

Offline dmaxdmax

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Re: How Much Dough in Bosch Universal Plus?
« Reply #34 on: April 14, 2011, 08:35:28 AM »
 Later today I'm doing a double batch of focaccia @ about 85% (48 oz flour).  I'll let you know if I'm unhappy.
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Offline dmaxdmax

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Re: How Much Dough in Bosch Universal Plus?
« Reply #35 on: April 14, 2011, 11:25:37 PM »
It purred like a kitten.
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Offline Chet

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Re: How Much Dough in Bosch Universal Plus?
« Reply #36 on: April 15, 2011, 08:32:32 AM »


  Do a search on youtube, there is a guy there who made 17lbs of whole wheat dough, 10 cups water & 21 cups flour. 9 loaves of bread.

   Chet

Offline dmaxdmax

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Re: How Much Dough in Bosch Universal Plus?
« Reply #37 on: May 04, 2011, 12:24:13 PM »
FYI - At the other extreme I just mixed a 620g (340 flour w/68 hydration).  I don't think any less would have mixed well using the dough bowl & hook.  I don't know about the std white w/std hook.
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