Author Topic: pizzeria in australia  (Read 9391 times)

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Offline OzPizza

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Re: pizzeria in australia
« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2005, 02:39:17 AM »
Allied's Pro Rich flour is within the range of 13 to 14.5% as I was told no flour holds true for a fix figure.
Normally a blend by the millers and quality tends to vary from batch to batch so protein is an allowable range not a fixed number .

Funny, Weston's special flour has an absortion rate of 63.5 and a protein range level 9.2 to 10% according to their feedback however the dough appears to be tough so they have me lost on protein levels.

Actually I have to correct you on the AFM product their literature states that black label flour is 14% min protein, not average, which is a bullseye for protein level I'm after. If it were as low as 13% there would be no variation to their standard High Protein Bakers Flour
which is 13% min already and there would be no point in them making it.
Quote

Australian Flour Mills (AFM)
Black Label

Extra Protein Bakers Flour
Protein (d.b)  : 14% min.
 
Moisture: 14.5% max.
 
Ash (d.b): 0.55% max.
 
Gluten (wet): 32% min.
 
Falling No. (sec.) :250  min.
 
Farinogram :
 
Water Absorption : 62-64%
 
Dev. Time (minute) : 5 min.
 
Stability (minute): 15 min.

--------------------------------------------------

Australian Flour
Mills (AFM)
Blue Label High Protein Bakers Flour

 
Protein (d.b): 13% min.
 
Moisture : 14.5% max.
 
Ash (d.b) : 0.60% max.
 
Gluten (wet): 31% min.
 
Falling No. (sec.) : 250  min.
 
Farinogram

Water Absorption : 60-62%
 
Dev. Time (minute): 5-7 min.
 
Stability (minute) :9-12 min.

 

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piroshok

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Re: pizzeria in australia
« Reply #21 on: July 19, 2005, 03:27:21 AM »
Well there are ranges for standard milling here is Allied Pro Rich flour tech info

Quote
Analytical Specification   
Protein (N x 5.7)%   13.3 - 14.5%
Moisture %   14.5% maximum
Falling Number (seconds)   300 minimum
Minolta (L-b)   80.0 minimum
Ash   0.62% maximum
Water Absorption   62 - 68%

Offline OzPizza

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Re: pizzeria in australia
« Reply #22 on: July 19, 2005, 05:07:10 AM »
Well there are ranges for standard milling here is Allied Pro Rich flour tech info


I wasn't saying there weren't ranges for protein content, rather that Australian Flour Mills black label is 14% minimum. Therefore the range would deviate upwards not downwards or else, as I stated previously, it might as well be classed as being no different to the Blue label product. You could probably assume that the range for Black Label for example would be %14-15% protein level variation.
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piroshok

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Re: pizzeria in australia
« Reply #23 on: July 19, 2005, 08:36:24 AM »
All the figures I have posted here are technical figures provided by millers test labs.
Millers process flour mixes by tonnage and you would invariably get differences in protein levels
I have no desire to argue which one is better flour than the other since there is no real commercialvalue for me here at all belive me I was myself a wheat bullk trader for seven years so I should know something about it.
Good luck in your quest

Offline OzPizza

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Re: pizzeria in australia
« Reply #24 on: July 19, 2005, 08:50:28 PM »
All the figures I have posted here are technical figures provided by millers test labs.
Millers process flour mixes by tonnage and you would invariably get differences in protein levels
I have no desire to argue which one is better flour than the other since there is no real commercialvalue for me here at all belive me I was myself a wheat bullk trader for seven years so I should know something about it.
Good luck in your quest


Piroshok, why leave that important detail of your background out? It certainly changes your perspective on the topic. I have no doubt you obviously know what you're talking about. My only argument and why it's important to me is that I don't want to compromise protein levels when trying to emulate the Lehmann NY dough recipe as this seems to be a very critical factor in achieving an ideal NY crust. At the end of the day this conversation is meant to be about sharing info, not debating or arguing. I have simply shared the information I have on the flour I am now looking to purchase in the hopes of achieving my goals. We have probably reached the conclusion of what we can talk about until you or I actually get a hold of the flour products we desire and actually try them in a NY recipe. At that time, it will be time to start a fresh thread in the NY forum rather than reposting to this now very off topic thread.

Cheers  8)
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Offline OzPizza

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Re: pizzeria in australia
« Reply #25 on: August 04, 2005, 10:56:08 PM »
I finally spoke to the bloke at Rice Distributors, whose actual location is outside the city. After talking to him about my needs for min. 14% protein specs. He steered me away from AFM black label and to Ben Furney Maxi-Pro, which I had been confusing with Weston's Pro-Max (not hard). According to this bloke it is over 14% for certain and even stronger than AFM black label. For the princely sum of $14 I now have 25kg of Flour. As rediculous as it sounds I can seriously afford to take the punt on that much flour for $A14, especially when Defiance's crappy 5kg bread flour is $7.62 at Woolies! Worst come to worst I'll just use it in the breadmaker.

Hopefully over the weekend my experimenting will begin. I'm off to buy a kitchaid and a digital scale now...

I'll be reporting my finding on my attempts at the lehmann dough recipe in NY forum shortly...
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piroshok

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Re: pizzeria in australia
« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2005, 02:55:47 AM »
Well done
I now have a 25kg bag Allied Mills Pro Rich flour14% for $15

Offline OzPizza

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Re: pizzeria in australia
« Reply #27 on: August 05, 2005, 03:41:42 AM »
Excellent, now I guess we can compare the results. I wish I could get the exact specs for the Ben Furney Maxi-Pro, as I'd feel a bit better than just having been told that it's stronger than AFM black label. Mind you the Herald article states 14%, so I feel pretty good about it...Oh well I guess I'm going to find out just how good it is over the weekend...

Have you tried the Allied yet Piroshok?
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Offline capricciosa

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Re: pizzeria in australia
« Reply #28 on: September 05, 2005, 12:49:12 AM »
I live in the outer eastern suburbs of Melbourne, and I cant find a decent flour for any pizzas? what outlets do you use?
Mmmm Pizza

Offline OzPizza

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Re: pizzeria in australia
« Reply #29 on: September 05, 2005, 01:11:56 AM »
I live in the outer eastern suburbs of Melbourne, and I cant find a decent flour for any pizzas? what outlets do you use?

Be it Sydney or Melbourne, it's likely that you'll have to deal with a distributor. You can try some large continental deli type suppliers, but it's unlikely you'll find anything even close to 14% protein content flour through that type of outlet. I would have to defer to Piroshok if want specific Melbourne distributor info.

Trust me though, if spend some the time and find the right flour the results are more than worth it.

Good luck :)
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piroshok

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Re: pizzeria in australia
« Reply #30 on: September 05, 2005, 08:25:03 PM »
I live in the outer eastern suburbs of Melbourne, and I cant find a decent flour for any pizzas? what outlets do you use?
Tell me exactly the area  where you live I may be able to give you some addresses

Offline capricciosa

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Re: pizzeria in australia
« Reply #31 on: September 10, 2005, 05:33:08 PM »
Tell me exactly the area  where you live I may be able to give you some addresses

Croydon/Ringwood area
Mmmm Pizza

piroshok

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Re: pizzeria in australia
« Reply #32 on: September 10, 2005, 08:12:59 PM »
Fina Foods
40 Southern Rd
Mentone
sells Allied Pro Rich 25kg bags

Retsel Australia
16 Pinewood Ave Dandenong North VIC 3175
ph: (03) 9795 2725 Bread Making--Home

I am meeting Ben Furney Vic rep here on Monday I'll ask him where yo may get some of their flour
see what he says
You may also ring Weston for their Bakers Victory flour also 25kg

All flour above range between 12.5 and 13.5% certified could go up to 14%

 

Offline JamesOz

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Re: pizzeria in australia
« Reply #33 on: September 14, 2005, 07:58:03 PM »
Ozpizza----Have been reading your well informed posts with great interest as living in Canberra I can only agree that Aussie pizzas are not very good.
I was in the USA last year and their quisine is great.....a real eye opener ( mouth opener really).
I have been using store bought standard flour and instant dry yeast for my pizzas but have trouble with "thin cracker" style.
Any ideas on what ingredients would be better and where I might possibly find them?????From my observations we dont seem to have the variety available in the States.
You SHOULD open a shop here with USA style tucker.....NOT the massed produced junk from fast food outlets. I think Aussies would really enjoy it and you would do well.

Offline OzPizza

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Re: pizzeria in australia
« Reply #34 on: September 14, 2005, 09:14:55 PM »
Ozpizza----Have been reading your well informed posts with great interest as living in Canberra I can only agree that Aussie pizzas are not very good.
I was in the USA last year and their quisine is great.....a real eye opener ( mouth opener really).
I have been using store bought standard flour and instant dry yeast for my pizzas but have trouble with "thin cracker" style.
Any ideas on what ingredients would be better and where I might possibly find them?????From my observations we dont seem to have the variety available in the States.
You SHOULD open a shop here with USA style tucker.....NOT the massed produced junk from fast food outlets. I think Aussies would really enjoy it and you would do well.

Hi James,

The US certainly has a lot of variation both in cuisine and quality. But then with a 250mil+ market, I guess that's to be expected. Apart from pizza, I've had my share of good and bad experiences in the US, definitely more good than bad though.

In order to understand your question I need to ask is it a NY style you're after or a thin cracker crust? I can't quite work out whether your having trouble making a pizza and it's ending up thin cracker or you are trying to produce thin cracker crust?

I'd love to open a restaurant but unfortunately my existing business interests keep me too busy and a pizzeria would consume far more time than my other businesses do for the $$ return. I may look at JV'ing with someone down the track to do something, but I don't have time at moment.
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Offline JamesOz

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Re: pizzeria in australia
« Reply #35 on: September 15, 2005, 06:12:54 PM »
I have no problems with say a pan style pizza but the thin cracker style is not working out.I am now presuming that I really need to use different flour and yeast and am not sure exactly what sort.It would appear general purpose flour and instant dry yeast is not the way to go.Unfortunately that is all I can find in the supermarkets.

Any advise would be greatly appreciated.

Offline OzPizza

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Re: pizzeria in australia
« Reply #36 on: September 15, 2005, 10:50:00 PM »
James, I see. Then yes I'd say you have a definite flour issue and in particular a hydration issue. You really need to aim for a high protein variety, minimum 13% to get you started. It is definitely possible to make an all purpose flour based NY style, but it's not likely have the right crust texture or brown properly at normal oven temps. There are ways of improving all purpose flour by adding dairy whey, etc, but that's doing it the hard way(see the NY Lehmann style thread for more info). You also need to following the kneading and mixing instructions to a tee. Yeast, as long as its still fresh should be fine. I've not really noticed that much difference between them. At the moment I've got instant dry yeast, Lowan brand from Coles, it comes in as capped cardboard cylinder, brown label. It stores in the fridge and is very handy.

I would imagine canberra being a pain for sourcing high-protein flours. There are more than like some suppliers who carries various flours around in places like Fyshwick. Although if you only want small quantities, you may have to go with an Italian bread flour like the one Molini makes. It maxes out at 12.4% protein content. You should be able to find these Molini flours at Italian delis and continental food outlets in Canberra.

Finally, my best advice is to read the Tom Lehmann thread in the NY Style section thoroughly. Pretty much any question you might have and all recipe variations are covered there.

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Offline capricciosa

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Re: pizzeria in australia
« Reply #37 on: September 25, 2005, 11:31:50 AM »
Fina Foods
40 Southern Rd
Mentone
sells Allied Pro Rich 25kg bags

Retsel Australia
16 Pinewood Ave Dandenong North VIC 3175
ph: (03) 9795 2725 Bread Making--Home

I am meeting Ben Furney Vic rep here on Monday I'll ask him where yo may get some of their flour
see what he says

You may also ring Weston for their Bakers Victory flour also 25kg

All flour above range between 12.5 and 13.5% certified could go up to 14%

 

Thanks piroshok, your help is much appreciated and I am sorry I have taken a while to respond, I have been really busy.
Mmmm Pizza

Offline JamesOz

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Re: pizzeria in australia
« Reply #38 on: December 10, 2005, 05:24:34 PM »
James, I see. Then yes I'd say you have a definite flour issue and in particular a hydration issue. You really need to aim for a high protein variety, minimum 13% to get you started. It is definitely possible to make an all purpose flour based NY style, but it's not likely have the right crust texture or brown properly at normal oven temps. There are ways of improving all purpose flour by adding dairy whey, etc, but that's doing it the hard way(see the NY Lehmann style thread for more info). You also need to following the kneading and mixing instructions to a tee. Yeast, as long as its still fresh should be fine. I've not really noticed that much difference between them. At the moment I've got instant dry yeast, Lowan brand from Coles, it comes in as capped cardboard cylinder, brown label. It stores in the fridge and is very handy.

I would imagine canberra being a pain for sourcing high-protein flours. There are more than like some suppliers who carries various flours around in places like Fyshwick. Although if you only want small quantities, you may have to go with an Italian bread flour like the one Molini makes. It maxes out at 12.4% protein content. You should be able to find these Molini flours at Italian delis and continental food outlets in Canberra.

Finally, my best advice is to read the Tom Lehmann thread in the NY Style section thoroughly. Pretty much any question you might have and all recipe variations are covered there.



Offline JamesOz

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Re: pizzeria in australia
« Reply #39 on: December 10, 2005, 05:28:35 PM »
Ozpizza....FINALLY got to the Fyshwick Fruit Markets and found all types of flour available the "Nut Shoppe". They have a special "pizza flour" which I will try shortly.The beauty about this shop is they sell in one kilo bags.


 

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