Author Topic: pizzeria in australia  (Read 11330 times)

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Offline OzPizza

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Re: pizzeria in australia
« Reply #25 on: August 04, 2005, 10:56:08 PM »
I finally spoke to the bloke at Rice Distributors, whose actual location is outside the city. After talking to him about my needs for min. 14% protein specs. He steered me away from AFM black label and to Ben Furney Maxi-Pro, which I had been confusing with Weston's Pro-Max (not hard). According to this bloke it is over 14% for certain and even stronger than AFM black label. For the princely sum of $14 I now have 25kg of Flour. As rediculous as it sounds I can seriously afford to take the punt on that much flour for $A14, especially when Defiance's crappy 5kg bread flour is $7.62 at Woolies! Worst come to worst I'll just use it in the breadmaker.

Hopefully over the weekend my experimenting will begin. I'm off to buy a kitchaid and a digital scale now...

I'll be reporting my finding on my attempts at the lehmann dough recipe in NY forum shortly...
Founder of B.R.N.Y.P.O.Z. - The bring REAL NY pizza to Oz movement!


piroshok

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Re: pizzeria in australia
« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2005, 02:55:47 AM »
Well done
I now have a 25kg bag Allied Mills Pro Rich flour14% for $15

Offline OzPizza

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Re: pizzeria in australia
« Reply #27 on: August 05, 2005, 03:41:42 AM »
Excellent, now I guess we can compare the results. I wish I could get the exact specs for the Ben Furney Maxi-Pro, as I'd feel a bit better than just having been told that it's stronger than AFM black label. Mind you the Herald article states 14%, so I feel pretty good about it...Oh well I guess I'm going to find out just how good it is over the weekend...

Have you tried the Allied yet Piroshok?
Founder of B.R.N.Y.P.O.Z. - The bring REAL NY pizza to Oz movement!

Offline capricciosa

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Re: pizzeria in australia
« Reply #28 on: September 05, 2005, 12:49:12 AM »
I live in the outer eastern suburbs of Melbourne, and I cant find a decent flour for any pizzas? what outlets do you use?
Mmmm Pizza

Offline OzPizza

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Re: pizzeria in australia
« Reply #29 on: September 05, 2005, 01:11:56 AM »
I live in the outer eastern suburbs of Melbourne, and I cant find a decent flour for any pizzas? what outlets do you use?

Be it Sydney or Melbourne, it's likely that you'll have to deal with a distributor. You can try some large continental deli type suppliers, but it's unlikely you'll find anything even close to 14% protein content flour through that type of outlet. I would have to defer to Piroshok if want specific Melbourne distributor info.

Trust me though, if spend some the time and find the right flour the results are more than worth it.

Good luck :)
Founder of B.R.N.Y.P.O.Z. - The bring REAL NY pizza to Oz movement!

piroshok

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Re: pizzeria in australia
« Reply #30 on: September 05, 2005, 08:25:03 PM »
I live in the outer eastern suburbs of Melbourne, and I cant find a decent flour for any pizzas? what outlets do you use?
Tell me exactly the area  where you live I may be able to give you some addresses

Offline capricciosa

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Re: pizzeria in australia
« Reply #31 on: September 10, 2005, 05:33:08 PM »
Tell me exactly the area  where you live I may be able to give you some addresses

Croydon/Ringwood area
Mmmm Pizza

piroshok

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Re: pizzeria in australia
« Reply #32 on: September 10, 2005, 08:12:59 PM »
Fina Foods
40 Southern Rd
Mentone
sells Allied Pro Rich 25kg bags

Retsel Australia
16 Pinewood Ave Dandenong North VIC 3175
ph: (03) 9795 2725 Bread Making--Home

I am meeting Ben Furney Vic rep here on Monday I'll ask him where yo may get some of their flour
see what he says
You may also ring Weston for their Bakers Victory flour also 25kg

All flour above range between 12.5 and 13.5% certified could go up to 14%

 

Offline JamesOz

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Re: pizzeria in australia
« Reply #33 on: September 14, 2005, 07:58:03 PM »
Ozpizza----Have been reading your well informed posts with great interest as living in Canberra I can only agree that Aussie pizzas are not very good.
I was in the USA last year and their quisine is great.....a real eye opener ( mouth opener really).
I have been using store bought standard flour and instant dry yeast for my pizzas but have trouble with "thin cracker" style.
Any ideas on what ingredients would be better and where I might possibly find them?????From my observations we dont seem to have the variety available in the States.
You SHOULD open a shop here with USA style tucker.....NOT the massed produced junk from fast food outlets. I think Aussies would really enjoy it and you would do well.


Offline OzPizza

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Re: pizzeria in australia
« Reply #34 on: September 14, 2005, 09:14:55 PM »
Ozpizza----Have been reading your well informed posts with great interest as living in Canberra I can only agree that Aussie pizzas are not very good.
I was in the USA last year and their quisine is great.....a real eye opener ( mouth opener really).
I have been using store bought standard flour and instant dry yeast for my pizzas but have trouble with "thin cracker" style.
Any ideas on what ingredients would be better and where I might possibly find them?????From my observations we dont seem to have the variety available in the States.
You SHOULD open a shop here with USA style tucker.....NOT the massed produced junk from fast food outlets. I think Aussies would really enjoy it and you would do well.

Hi James,

The US certainly has a lot of variation both in cuisine and quality. But then with a 250mil+ market, I guess that's to be expected. Apart from pizza, I've had my share of good and bad experiences in the US, definitely more good than bad though.

In order to understand your question I need to ask is it a NY style you're after or a thin cracker crust? I can't quite work out whether your having trouble making a pizza and it's ending up thin cracker or you are trying to produce thin cracker crust?

I'd love to open a restaurant but unfortunately my existing business interests keep me too busy and a pizzeria would consume far more time than my other businesses do for the $$ return. I may look at JV'ing with someone down the track to do something, but I don't have time at moment.
Founder of B.R.N.Y.P.O.Z. - The bring REAL NY pizza to Oz movement!

Offline JamesOz

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Re: pizzeria in australia
« Reply #35 on: September 15, 2005, 06:12:54 PM »
I have no problems with say a pan style pizza but the thin cracker style is not working out.I am now presuming that I really need to use different flour and yeast and am not sure exactly what sort.It would appear general purpose flour and instant dry yeast is not the way to go.Unfortunately that is all I can find in the supermarkets.

Any advise would be greatly appreciated.

Offline OzPizza

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Re: pizzeria in australia
« Reply #36 on: September 15, 2005, 10:50:00 PM »
James, I see. Then yes I'd say you have a definite flour issue and in particular a hydration issue. You really need to aim for a high protein variety, minimum 13% to get you started. It is definitely possible to make an all purpose flour based NY style, but it's not likely have the right crust texture or brown properly at normal oven temps. There are ways of improving all purpose flour by adding dairy whey, etc, but that's doing it the hard way(see the NY Lehmann style thread for more info). You also need to following the kneading and mixing instructions to a tee. Yeast, as long as its still fresh should be fine. I've not really noticed that much difference between them. At the moment I've got instant dry yeast, Lowan brand from Coles, it comes in as capped cardboard cylinder, brown label. It stores in the fridge and is very handy.

I would imagine canberra being a pain for sourcing high-protein flours. There are more than like some suppliers who carries various flours around in places like Fyshwick. Although if you only want small quantities, you may have to go with an Italian bread flour like the one Molini makes. It maxes out at 12.4% protein content. You should be able to find these Molini flours at Italian delis and continental food outlets in Canberra.

Finally, my best advice is to read the Tom Lehmann thread in the NY Style section thoroughly. Pretty much any question you might have and all recipe variations are covered there.

Founder of B.R.N.Y.P.O.Z. - The bring REAL NY pizza to Oz movement!

Offline capricciosa

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Re: pizzeria in australia
« Reply #37 on: September 25, 2005, 11:31:50 AM »
Fina Foods
40 Southern Rd
Mentone
sells Allied Pro Rich 25kg bags

Retsel Australia
16 Pinewood Ave Dandenong North VIC 3175
ph: (03) 9795 2725 Bread Making--Home

I am meeting Ben Furney Vic rep here on Monday I'll ask him where yo may get some of their flour
see what he says

You may also ring Weston for their Bakers Victory flour also 25kg

All flour above range between 12.5 and 13.5% certified could go up to 14%

 

Thanks piroshok, your help is much appreciated and I am sorry I have taken a while to respond, I have been really busy.
Mmmm Pizza

Offline JamesOz

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Re: pizzeria in australia
« Reply #38 on: December 10, 2005, 05:24:34 PM »
James, I see. Then yes I'd say you have a definite flour issue and in particular a hydration issue. You really need to aim for a high protein variety, minimum 13% to get you started. It is definitely possible to make an all purpose flour based NY style, but it's not likely have the right crust texture or brown properly at normal oven temps. There are ways of improving all purpose flour by adding dairy whey, etc, but that's doing it the hard way(see the NY Lehmann style thread for more info). You also need to following the kneading and mixing instructions to a tee. Yeast, as long as its still fresh should be fine. I've not really noticed that much difference between them. At the moment I've got instant dry yeast, Lowan brand from Coles, it comes in as capped cardboard cylinder, brown label. It stores in the fridge and is very handy.

I would imagine canberra being a pain for sourcing high-protein flours. There are more than like some suppliers who carries various flours around in places like Fyshwick. Although if you only want small quantities, you may have to go with an Italian bread flour like the one Molini makes. It maxes out at 12.4% protein content. You should be able to find these Molini flours at Italian delis and continental food outlets in Canberra.

Finally, my best advice is to read the Tom Lehmann thread in the NY Style section thoroughly. Pretty much any question you might have and all recipe variations are covered there.



Offline JamesOz

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Re: pizzeria in australia
« Reply #39 on: December 10, 2005, 05:28:35 PM »
Ozpizza....FINALLY got to the Fyshwick Fruit Markets and found all types of flour available the "Nut Shoppe". They have a special "pizza flour" which I will try shortly.The beauty about this shop is they sell in one kilo bags.

Offline OzPizza

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Re: pizzeria in australia
« Reply #40 on: December 11, 2005, 12:24:18 AM »
Ozpizza....FINALLY got to the Fyshwick Fruit Markets and found all types of flour available the "Nut Shoppe". They have a special "pizza flour" which I will try shortly.The beauty about this shop is they sell in one kilo bags.

James, pizza flour could mean a lot of things, you need to check the specific protein content on the package. Molini-Pizzuti for example makes little 1 kg packets of 'Pizza Flour' which pretty low at 11.2%(got some in the cupboard) and easily out-proteined by their bread flour(12.6% not 12.4% as per my last post). You are also unlikely to find 'serious' protein content flour(14%) in small volumes like 1kg in Australia (I think the US is pretty similar).

Let us know how you go.


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piroshok

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Re: pizzeria in australia
« Reply #41 on: December 17, 2005, 10:58:21 PM »
JamesOz
I have pretty good success with Manildra flour as per pic (it's only 12.5 kg and the millers say it lasts up to 12 months storage) making a 8 hour poolish(*) say 1 cup and 1/8 tspn IDY
and then add two cups 11% flour very good and extensible dough with large voids
This flour is much higher protein than stated it has high ash content of 66% low extraction rate 85% and water absoption is 66% to 68%

(*) many people make mistakes with poolish because they believe it should be used when frothing or streaks forming which is not. Poolish is best used when it totally collapsed and a smelly watery surfice appears floating over the poolish
« Last Edit: December 18, 2005, 12:48:14 AM by piroshok »


Offline Caz at Margheritas

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Re: pizzeria in australia
« Reply #42 on: December 27, 2005, 07:31:54 AM »
Hi nice to see more Aussies here :)

I'm no expert! Just to get that out of the way  ;) BUT I spent months researching bread flours for our shop and then in walked our new (long story but my original business partner was another chef and we fell out) pizza chef, with 18 years experience cooking Neapolitan style pizzas, and he said our flour was too strong.

Back to the drawing board and looking for a non bread flour that is organic (I have organic as a firm spec). We found one and it is working very well. Millers Organic Plain Flour, from Byford Mills. Around AUD $0.95 Per kilo. When we can't get that we just use Weston's Superb Bakers Flour and adjust the proportions a little.

It seems to me from reading a lot of threads today that it all depends on the crust style, method of stretching and then cooking to decide which flour is best for you.

Because we use a hot wood fired oven we like a soft, light, thin crust that cooks right through very quickly in high temperatures so a fine soft flour is most suitable. If I cook the same dough in our home oven it goes tough and chewy because of the high water ratio and longer cooking time.

Doughs ain't doughs  ::)

Caz

piroshok

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Re: pizzeria in australia
« Reply #43 on: December 28, 2005, 08:13:40 PM »
yet another outlet for Weston flours
Harris 1292 Centre Road, Clayton  25kg bag going for $15

BAS Foods 423 Victoria Street, Brunswick is moslty frequented by Turkish and other peoples of the Muslim community so good farina type of flour one expects to find at BASfoods
« Last Edit: December 29, 2005, 08:08:11 AM by piroshok »

Offline JamesOz

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Re: pizzeria in australia
« Reply #44 on: January 12, 2006, 05:27:59 PM »
OzPizza......Sorry to take so long getting back to you.The "Pizza" flour was very ordinary and made no difference at all.I forgot to mention it also cost A$2.50 per kilo so I will go back to all purpose flour for the moment which seems to work OK.

Piroshok.......thanks for the flour tip....will look into it.

Caz at Margheritas.....Thanks also for your ideas.I like the thin cracker style pizza with air bubbles (voids ?) in it.Sometimes it works out well but others no so good.I think I will need to watch the hydration levels and try to get my oven hotter in order to obtain the the "crisp cracker" style as outlined by DKM in his threads.

Anyway its fun experimenting and I WILL get the perfect formula oneday.Regards James.

Offline OzPizza

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Re: pizzeria in australia
« Reply #45 on: January 13, 2006, 02:39:29 AM »
OzPizza......Sorry to take so long getting back to you.The "Pizza" flour was very ordinary and made no difference at all.I forgot to mention it also cost A$2.50 per kilo so I will go back to all purpose flour for the moment which seems to work OK.

Piroshok.......thanks for the flour tip....will look into it.

Caz at Margheritas.....Thanks also for your ideas.I like the thin cracker style pizza with air bubbles (voids ?) in it.Sometimes it works out well but others no so good.I think I will need to watch the hydration levels and try to get my oven hotter in order to obtain the the "crisp cracker" style as outlined by DKM in his threads.

Anyway its fun experimenting and I WILL get the perfect formula oneday.Regards James.

Jame's it's understandable that the pizza flour did very little. I went through the same process of experimenting quite a while ago. What I did find was that the Molini-Pizzuti bread flour @12.6% topped up with some gluten flour, gives a half decent result and is a big improvement on AP flour.

If you want to emulate a more traditional Neopolitan style pizza similar to what Caz cooks you need a high temp oven or woodfire as she refers to. That style will alter your flour protein level, fermentation method and dough consistency significantly. Plenty of info is on hand in these forums.
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