Author Topic: NY Style Good but too soupy in the middle  (Read 2066 times)

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Offline fireman117

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NY Style Good but too soupy in the middle
« on: April 12, 2010, 05:05:47 PM »
Hi Everyone,

I made another pie over the weekend. It tasted wonderful except it was too wet, especially in the middle. I suspect it was either the:
1 Fresh Mushrooms
2 Onion (raw)
3 The tomato puree
Also, I made the Lehmann crust exactly as I did before, but this time it was hard to stretch out and felt a little wet and sticky out of the fridge. After the initial kneading, it felt good, not too wet and not sticky. I did in the end get it to work OK but it wasn't pretty. Last time it stretched right out and was very cooperative.

Does any one have any ideas on how to avoid this next time?

Here's the particulars:
I used the basic Lehmann recipe, let it rise overnight and brought up to room temperature before working.
I didn't change any ingredients. I use (Dakota Maid bread flour).
Oven temp =550 degrees baked on a pizza stone.

I've included a couple of pix so you can take a look.
Also, as a side note, I included the cheese I used. It's from a small family dairy in Weyauwega WI, and I thought it was excellent!

Any help would be most appreciated.

Thank you,
Eric

Here's the recipe I used last two times:
Bread Flour (100%):
Water (63%):
IDY (0.40%):
Salt (1.75%):
Olive Oil (1%):
Total (166.15%):
279.93 g  |  9.87 oz | 0.62 lbs
176.36 g  |  6.22 oz | 0.39 lbs
1.12 g | 0.04 oz | 0 lbs | 0.37 tsp | 0.12 tbsp
4.9 g | 0.17 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.88 tsp | 0.29 tbsp
2.8 g | 0.1 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.62 tsp | 0.21 tbsp
465.11 g | 16.41 oz | 1.03 lbs | TF = 0.106575


Online Pete-zza

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Re: NY Style Good but too soupy in the middle
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2010, 06:03:48 PM »
Eric,

I don't see anything from what you said to suggest a problem. Are you by any chance measuring the water temperature and the finished dough temperature? Sometimes a dough's behavior and performance will change somewhat as we go from cool weather to warmer weather. You may need to lower the water temperature, lower the amount of yeast, or both.

I would say that the raw toppings were likely responsible for the soupy middle. If you materially increased the amount of sauce, that, too, could have been responsible. In any event, the pizza looks very good to me.

Peter

Offline Puzzolento

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Re: NY Style Good but too soupy in the middle
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2010, 08:36:04 AM »
In my experience, excess water usually comes from the cheese. After that, the sauce is the biggest offender.

Offline fireman117

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Re: NY Style Good but too soupy in the middle
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2010, 10:14:07 AM »
Peter,,
I did measure the temps.  The bowl with the ingredients was 62 degrees. I preheated the mixer bowl and water to 100 degrees. After kneading the dough the temp was 80 degrees. After hand kneading 1 min. I placed the ball in a wide stainless bowl covered with plastic wrap and immediately placed on the bottom rack of the fridge. Rise time was about 20 hours. The next day I let it come up to room temp on the counter covered. It took 3 hours to get up to 62 degrees. (It's still cold in WI)!

Do you think if I dehydrated the mushrooms a little that would help? Other than that all the rest of the proportions were about the same. The only other really different thing was the puree, that's what I had on hand. Last time I used whole tomatoes. The tomato  puree smelled so good out of the can I used very little seasoning just a little lightly sauteed garlic, pepper and a little oregano. This is the first time I've used anything besides garden variety store tomatoes. That seems to be one of the secrets.

I got around the soggy problem by letting the stone cool a little and transferring the pie back on. At least the bottom was crisp.
I was very happy this time with the crust. nice and airy, not tough, and the taste was very good.

Thank you all for your help and suggestions.
Eric

PS I've been following the Mom with the autistic son thread. I think it's absolutely wonderful that all of you jumped in to help with her difficult situation. All of you deserve a big gold star! And, last I looked she had a pretty good looking pie in that box!

Offline scott r

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Re: NY Style Good but too soupy in the middle
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2010, 10:40:57 AM »
fresh mushrooms weep a massive amount of moisture if they aren't first roasted or sauteed.   I like to throw in some garlic with them and a little salt and go low and slow for about a half hour.   300 in the oven works great for me, and you can get your stone up to that temp as the mushrooms are roasting.   

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: NY Style Good but too soupy in the middle
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2010, 11:09:24 AM »
Soupy pizza is yet another issue it seems everyone starting must deal with. Some of the biggest offenders as stated above is excess water and oil in the sauce, mushrooms, and excess oils from the pepperoni.

To deal with some of these issues I sometimes will stick a rolled up paper towel into my bowl of sauce to soak up excess water.  Add just alittle oil to the sauce, not too much. Nuke the pepperonis for 15 secs prior to topping, and pre sauté mushrooms.

Also baking at higher temps can help evaporate some of that water. 

Offline Puzzolento

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Re: NY Style Good but too soupy in the middle
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2010, 11:37:31 AM »
I made a pizza using GFS Primo Gusto cheese the other day, and I ended up with a lot of water in the pie. Strange. The cheese also melted poorly.

Offline scottm

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Re: NY Style Good but too soupy in the middle
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2010, 12:14:03 PM »
I routinely use fresh mushrooms on my pizzas but i always microwave them first between 2 layers of paper towel for about 45 seconds. If I use a lot of mushrooms i sometimes need to pat the moisture off when the pizza comes out of the oven.

Offline fireman117

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Re: NY Style Good but too soupy in the middle
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2010, 12:50:03 PM »
Hi Scott X 2

We are really old school. We don't own a microwave! Do you think I could bake in a low oven between paper towels? I really think the mushrooms are a big part of the problem. I've sauteed before with good results, but I was looking for that unadulterated taste. When I make Au Jus for a steak I just use the water thats contained in the mushrooms when I cook them and about a teaspoon  of dry vermouth, and there is always enough juice.

Also I used about 3-4 oz. on the pie, If that helps.

Thanks,
Eric

Offline Glutenboy

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Re: NY Style Good but too soupy in the middle
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2010, 01:48:14 PM »
Okay, first of all, take the paper towels out of the oven.  Seriously, you don't need them for this.  Heat, either from roasting in the oven or sauteeing in a pan, will make the mushrooms weep and shrink, and you can blot them afterward if need be.  You will be surprised how much of the raw mushrooms' (or lots of other vegetables) mass and volume is just water.  When they are cooked, the water is discharged.  That can sog up your pizza unless you somehow wilt the veggies first.  Another source of sogginess could be your sauce.  Since I like my tomatoes/sauce either uncooked or barely scalded, there is no opportunity to thicken it on the stove, so I usually drain the liquid from the canned tomatoes (reserving it in case I want to thin at the end) and stick with the solids.  I get it to the desired consistency with an immersion blender.  This allows me lots of control over the water content of the tomatoes without cooking them.  I probably use a thicker tomato sauce than most, but I don't want sog and I like intense tomato flavor.  If you're using a low-moisture cheese, it might contribute grease, but I doubt much in the way of water to the pie.  My first thought is the raw vegetables since you seem to have used quite quite a few, and possibly the sauce.  Hope this helps.
Quote under my pic excludes Little Caesar's.


Offline Essen1

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Re: NY Style Good but too soupy in the middle
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2010, 06:23:40 PM »
Hi Scott X 2

We are really old school. We don't own a microwave! Do you think I could bake in a low oven between paper towels? I really think the mushrooms are a big part of the problem. I've sauteed before with good results, but I was looking for that unadulterated taste. When I make Au Jus for a steak I just use the water thats contained in the mushrooms when I cook them and about a teaspoon  of dry vermouth, and there is always enough juice.

Also I used about 3-4 oz. on the pie, If that helps.

Thanks,
Eric

Eric,

Here's what I saw not too long ago in a San Francisco Pizza shop who specializes in NY-style pies:

They slice the mushrooms very thin, probably with a mandolin, then put them in a metal container and popped them in the pizza oven for a few minutes to get the moisture to evaporate. First time I saw this done that way but I guess it works for them.

Mike

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Offline tdeane

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Re: NY Style Good but too soupy in the middle
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2010, 10:24:50 PM »
I saute my mushrooms before I put them on a pizza. Not only does it remove the moisture but you get a chance to season the sauteed mush.

Offline fireman117

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Re: NY Style Good but too soupy in the middle
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2010, 04:34:12 PM »
Thanks for all the tips. Sounds like the concensus is the raw mushrooms and possibly the sauce.

I'll try out your ideas and be back with a report in two weeks. I'm going up to the cabin for the weekend so no pizza making 'till next week.
Maybe I'll build a wood fired oven up there, we have tons stone and hardwood!

Thanks again,
Eric

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: NY Style Good but too soupy in the middle
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2010, 07:47:00 AM »
fresh mushrooms weep a massive amount of moisture if they aren't first roasted or sauteed.   

Heat, either from roasting in the oven or sauteing in a pan, will make the mushrooms weep and shrink, and you can blot them afterward if need be.  You will be surprised how much of the raw mushrooms' (or lots of other vegetables) mass and volume is just water. 

Absolutely. As soon as I read this I thought exactly what Scott and GB say above. I've even tried partially sauteed 'shrooms and they still cried like a river all over the pie. Sauteed is the way to go, some try to just put the mushrooms in dry assuming the emissions of juice is all you need to fry them. They stick to pan and the gills don't open properly. A little oil is best, even butter added. If adding butter too wait until it stops foaming before you saute, then it's ready. Garlic powder is always a plus with everything. I use it on my morning cereal, add to coffee, and it makes a great sprinkle on a chocolate ice cream cone. You get the idea. 


« Last Edit: April 16, 2010, 07:48:53 AM by NY pizzastriver »
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Offline tcarlisle

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Re: NY Style Good but too soupy in the middle
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2010, 03:20:41 AM »
Yeah, my bet is the veggies and sauce. Veggies produce a lot of moisture. When I use veggie toppings I sautee them first, and I adjust the consistency of the sauce to be much thicker (with tomato paste or simmer it to reduce and thicken).

Offline PizzaHog

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Re: NY Style Good but too soupy in the middle
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2010, 09:08:17 AM »
When I was at DiFara's last year and ordered a pie with mushrooms, Dom left them off until the very end of the bake.  Maybe playing around with something like this would get you that unadulterated taste you are looking for without releasing too much liquid. 

Offline randyjohnsonhve

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Re: NY Style Good but too soupy in the middle
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2010, 09:53:55 AM »
Good Day...I would suggest low moisture mozz (try using fresh mozz, in chunks, not grated) could leave oils in the center of your pizza...Too much or too runny of a sauce could do the same...I believe that mushrooms should be precooked (roasted or sauteed) to remove the moisture, but more importantly to caramelize for supreme taste---raw mushrooms have way too much water in them...One last thing, too cool of an oven, or undercooking could produce the undesired results...Good Pizza Making, RJ
« Last Edit: April 17, 2010, 09:56:23 AM by randyjohnsonhve »
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