Tried Glutenboy's Formula

[norma427]

I tried Glutenboy’s formula out today.  I made a 14" pizza.  I used KASL flour and made the dough on Friday, then cold-fermented the dough until today.  I really enjoyed the pizza and want to try for a longer cold ferment in the coming weeks.  The dough was mixed dough by hand.

Glutenboy, Thanks for your formula, 

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

That's a nice looking pizza. Did you bake it in your home oven or in the oven at market?

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

That's a nice looking pizza. Did you bake it in your home oven or in the oven at market?

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for saying the pizza looks nice.  I baked the pizza at market.

Norma

[Jackie Tran]

Norma,

That's a nice looking pizza.

I 2nd that.  Even more impressive that it was hand kneaded.  How did you like the texture?  Was it moist and chewy or more one or the other?

[norma427]

I 2nd that.  Even more impressive that it was hand kneaded.  How did you like the texture?  Was it moist and chewy or more one or the other?

Tranman,

Thanks for the compliment.    I liked the texture of this pie.  It had a hydration of about 61%.  I had always wanted to try Glutenboy's formula and now want to try a longer ferment to see what happens.  I also wanted to see what a dough was like without adding oil to the formula.  If I had to compare this formula with what I am currently using, I would have to say the formula I am now using it creates a moister crust.  This pie was different and I really enjoyed it.

Norma

[NY pizzastriver]

Norma! Congrats, now you have tried my dough, and I saved a trip to the market! Just kidding, but that's what I would have brought with me. Once it hits 7 days it's at its peak, and I have recently been doing a trick on larger size GB's. In discussions about larger ones not cooling fast enough to last I now place the balls in the freezer for 20 minutes before going to sleep in the fridge. On a 12" no need, on a 15" though it does the trick. Also don't forget to evoo the containers AND the dough balls before sleeping. I also recommend pinholes in Tupperware lids on this dough.

Peace!

[norma427]

NY pizzastriver,

Thanks for the congrats, and you are more than welcome at market anytime to also try my dough.  I also want to try a longer ferment on Glutenboy’s formula.  I know you have tried his formula and your pies sure did look fantastic.    I am only experimenting on one dough ball for right now, but will remember your advise about putting the dough in the freezer if I make a larger batch.

Do you have any tips for mixing by hand?

Thanks for all your tips,

Norma

[NY pizzastriver]

Norma, well 1st off how many balls you make doesn't determine needing freezer time, them being larger than say 250g's does, it's a size of pizza issue.

Secondly yes, I used to mix by hand and GB's are a great candidate as it's not too wet. My 1st piece of advice is don't try using a bowl, get a bucket like this http://www.thebarfshop.com.au/shop/images/bucket.jpg. I got a hard strong plastic one from the dollar store, less noisy than metal too. You'll also need a whisk, a strong metal spoon, and 2 hands. Mix salt and water with whisk in bucket until dissolved. Add 1/2 the sifted flour and all yeast. Whisk hard until smooth, about 3 mins is good. let it rest for 5 mins. Add a little more flour, whisk, a little more, etc, until you can't whisk anymore as it's too solid. Then add remaining flour and go to spoon. This part is tiresome, but best as you can beat the forming ball with spoon until mixed as good as you can. This is where bucket is handy, you can place it in one arm and mix with the other hand. Walk around, keep mixing, look at the blue jays and cardinals, etc. Take ball out of floured surface and do 1/4 turn stretch and fold method, palms do the kneading, not fingers. See this video, notice the 1/4 turns, stretch, fold over, and press motion.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xs2Ndb6okfY" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xs2Ndb6okfY</a>

 Do that for about 4-5 mins until dough feels smooth and elastic. If you see a few lumps fear not, the 2 hour rest in covered oiled bowl fixes that. After 2 hrs repeat hand kneading again, you'll instantly feel how soft it's become and how easy it is to knead comparatively. Divide into balls, as I assume this is at least 2 balls we are making, and knead each one a few more times. Form balls, etc etc.

Fin'

 

[hotsawce]

I tried GBs formula after about 6 days cold ferment. Unfortunately, I think I must have done something wrong...not something you want to discover after waiting anxiously for near a week!

The crust came out much firmer...almost chewier than my typical dough. There wasn't much rise or oven spring....maybe I used a little too much yeast or it wasn't active enough in the fridge?

[norma427]

NY pizzastriver

From your instructions, the mixing sounds like a real work out.  Poor little beasties. 

Thanks,

Norma

hotsawce,

This is the Glutenboy's formula I used for one dough ball and how my dough ball looked after 4 days ferment.

Glutenboy's pizzas 14"

KASL (100%):
Water (61.0526%):
IDY    (0.19817%):
Salt     (2.5%):
Total   (163.75077%):
   192.95 g  |  6.81 oz | 0.43 lbs
117.8 g  |  4.16 oz | 0.26 lbs
0.38 g | 0.01 oz | 0 lbs | 0.13 tsp | 0.04 tbsp
4.82 g | 0.17 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.86 tsp | 0.29 tbsp
315.96 g | 11.14 oz | 0.7 lbs | TF = N/A

Norma

[NY pizzastriver]

hotsawce,
sounds like too much yeast is likely. Make sure you follow that to the T on yeast. I made 3 15" balls yesterday and all 3 have a total of .45 tsp IDY, so .15tsp per ball, or .13tsp as Norma just said for a 14. Any more and it dies. You also have to make sure they sit out long enough to warm up, 2-3 hrs temperature pending dusted and saran covered on wood board. (Yes sitting on a plate is not as good) You can also start eating them in 4 days, that's what's so cool, you make dough and you have pizza ready to go 4-9 days from now.

Norma, lol, it's not so bad. I also liked it, and kneaded vehemently, as I was always out to prove I could mix as good by hand as with a mixer. I basically did, this dough doesn't need 10 mins in a mixer though. Now I'm happy to have the mixer but I still hand knead at the end for aeration purposes. Point is you can pace yourself and keep it slow.

EDIT Norma's above in formula readable form...


KASL (100%): 192.95 g  |  6.81 oz | 0.43 lbs
Water (61.0526%): 117.8 g  |  4.16 oz | 0.26 lbs
IDY    (0.19817%): 0.38 g | 0.01 oz | 0 lbs | 0.13 tsp | 0.04 tbsp
Salt     (2.5%): 4.82 g | 0.17 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.86 tsp | 0.29 tbsp
Total   (163.75077%): 315.96 g | 11.14 oz | 0.7 lbs | TF = N/A
 

[Jackie Tran]

Hand kneading does not have to be a workout or even a chore.  It can be extremely enjoyable, even if you have weak hands.   

Here's a good technique I use.   Mix 80-100% of flour (your choice) and all the ingredients and let autolyse for 20-30m.  This period is crucial for hand kneading as it is half of the work already done.  Gluten will develop, the flour will be hydrated and softened as you wait.   Pull out and hand knead leisurely for 4-5 min.  Just take your time here and enjoy the process.  No need to hurry or strain at this point.

I use the French kneading technique here.  Scoop up dough ball with both hands (palms up).  Pick it up into the air, and quickly invert your hands flipping them over and slapping the dough on the counter folding the end closest to you over on itself.  Repeat this process for 4-5 mins.   

At this point the dough is not done being kneaded but don't fret.  Get a bowl or some saran wrap and cover the ball.  leave it to rest for 5 mins and come back.  You'll be surprise at how the dough feels just after a 5 min rest.  Knead again for 3-5 mins and rest.  You'll want to do this about 3 cycles.  Total knead time will be somewhere around 12 min total. 

How do you know when it's done?  When you fold the dough onto itself and it doesn't tear.  It will ball up nicely and keep it's ball shape.  It won't stick to the counter or your hands.  It will have a nice satiny finish to it.   

Now if you are using a very low % of yeast here, then you'll want to let it rest at room temps for about 2 hours to activate the yeast before dividing, reballing, and going into the fridge.   If the dough is to be used the same day or next, then you can skip the rest period.  Just divide, ball, and store in fridge.

Hope that helps for those who want to hand knead or just starting out. 

[Glutenboy]

Hey Kids.  Glad to see my formula's getting some extensive road testing and that you seem happy with the results.  Norma:  Beautiful pie.  I've gotta give the KASL a try soon and see how it compares to the AT.  I've read (I think from Scott R) that KASL gives a more breadlike result.  In any case the color and crumb looked great.  Try to get to 7 days.  That's when the flavor really shines.

[norma427]

Hey Kids.  Glad to see my formula's getting some extensive road testing and that you seem happy with the results.  Norma:  Beautiful pie.  I've gotta give the KASL a try soon and see how it compares to the AT.  I've read (I think from Scott R) that KASL gives a more breadlike result.  In any case the color and crumb looked great.  Try to get to 7 days.  That's when the flavor really shines.

NY pizzastriver,

I don’t mind mixing dough by hand.  Will try again. 

Norma



Glutenboy,

Thanks for saying the pie looked beautiful.    I don’t have any AT right now, but I do have some Pillsbury Balancer.  It think it is comparable to AT.  I have something to do at market tomorrow and I will mix another dough with your formula and give it a 5 day ferment.  Hopefully in the following weeks I will get to the 7day ferment. 

Thanks again for your formula, the pie was great!

Norma

[hotsawce]

hotsawce,
sounds like too much yeast is likely. Make sure you follow that to the T on yeast. I made 3 15" balls yesterday and all 3 have a total of .45 tsp IDY, so .15tsp per ball, or .13tsp as Norma just said for a 14. Any more and it dies. You also have to make sure they sit out long enough to warm up, 2-3 hrs temperature pending dusted and saran covered on wood board. (Yes sitting on a plate is not as good) You can also start eating them in 4 days, that's what's so cool, you make dough and you have pizza ready to go 4-9 days from now.

Norma, lol, it's not so bad. I also liked it, and kneaded vehemently, as I was always out to prove I could mix as good by hand as with a mixer. I basically did, this dough doesn't need 10 mins in a mixer though. Now I'm happy to have the mixer but I still hand knead at the end for aeration purposes. Point is you can pace yourself and keep it slow.

EDIT Norma's above in formula readable form...


KASL (100%): 192.95 g  |  6.81 oz | 0.43 lbs
Water (61.0526%): 117.8 g  |  4.16 oz | 0.26 lbs
IDY    (0.19817%): 0.38 g | 0.01 oz | 0 lbs | 0.13 tsp | 0.04 tbsp
Salt     (2.5%): 4.82 g | 0.17 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.86 tsp | 0.29 tbsp
Total   (163.75077%): 315.96 g | 11.14 oz | 0.7 lbs | TF = N/A
 

Too much yeast wouldn't cause it to overrise, just die? That could be very probable. I guess-stimated the best I could, so it might have been too much.

[norma427]

Norma, well 1st off how many balls you make doesn't determine needing freezer time, them being larger than say 250g's does, it's a size of pizza issue.

Secondly yes, I used to mix by hand and GB's are a great candidate as it's not too wet. My 1st piece of advice is don't try using a bowl, get a bucket like this http://www.thebarfshop.com.au/shop/images/bucket.jpg. I got a hard strong plastic one from the dollar store, less noisy than metal too. You'll also need a whisk, a strong metal spoon, and 2 hands. Mix salt and water with whisk in bucket until dissolved. Add 1/2 the sifted flour and all yeast. Whisk hard until smooth, about 3 mins is good. let it rest for 5 mins. Add a little more flour, whisk, a little more, etc, until you can't whisk anymore as it's too solid. Then add remaining flour and go to spoon. This part is tiresome, but best as you can beat the forming ball with spoon until mixed as good as you can. This is where bucket is handy, you can place it in one arm and mix with the other hand. Walk around, keep mixing, look at the blue jays and cardinals, etc. Take ball out of floured surface and do 1/4 turn stretch and fold method, palms do the kneading, not fingers. See this video, notice the 1/4 turns, stretch, fold over, and press motion. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xs2Ndb6okfY
 Do that for about 4-5 mins until dough feels smooth and elastic. If you see a few lumps fear not, the 2 hour rest in covered oiled bowl fixes that. After 2 hrs repeat hand kneading again, you'll instantly feel how soft it's become and how easy it is to knead comparatively. Divide into balls, as I assume this is at least 2 balls we are making, and knead each one a few more times. Form balls, etc etc.

Fin'

 

NY pizzastriver,

Well..I am trying to follow your advise on mixing Glutenboy’s dough by hand.  I didn’t go out any buy any extra equipment, but used the utensils I had.  I also followed your advise while mixing the dough to go outside and look for blue jays and cardinals, but didn’t see any.  The only instructions I didn’t follow was to let the dough sit for two hours and mix again.  I did let it sit for 1 hour.  Used the poppy seed trick to see how much the dough ferments until Tuesday.  Also oiled the container and dough ball. Your instructions were great and I even developed some extra muscles. 

Gave Glutenboy’s dough the cold ferment until Tuesday. Will wait and see what happens Tuesday.

Norma

[jcamador]

lol!! great pics Norma!

[norma427]

lol!! great pics Norma!

jcamador,

Thanks for saying you like the pictures.  Women need all the muscles that can get.  Mixing dough by hand helps. 

Norma

[Ronzo]

Looks good, Norma

[Glutenboy]

You're the Popeye of pizza dough!