Sourdough starter

[Essen1]

WOW!

A job well done.

Just stick with the feeding regimen and you'll be all set. Make sure, though, you feed it with the same flour. It looks like the yeast is going to work in full force. In regards to the color, that yellow tint will fade and turn into a nice beige and healthy color together with the smell.

What I am stoked about it is that it adds a great touch to a pizza crust. The SD starter gives the crust some really nice characteristics.

And even IF you should contaminate the starter somehow, it's always easy to make a new batch.

Have fun with it and keep us posted. Okay, back to the Sharks - Avalanche hockey game 

[Essen1]

Oh, and make sure you keep us posted and post pics of your upcoming pies!

[Jackie Tran]

Oh, and make sure you keep us posted and post pics of your upcoming pies!

Will do will do.  I'm glad you posted this starter up as I needed a new project and a different starter.  Already I can tell this starter and GotRocks Starter he sent me are behaving very differently than my original starter after feeding.  The structure of the dough with these 2 yeast cultures seem to display bigger and more varying shaped airbubbles compare to my original starter which seems to have a more uniform structure. 

It's really perfect timing as I wanted to get back into experimenting with higher % of preferment and nearlypolitan pies.

[GotRocks]

Essen,
You stated you see good browning characteristics with sourdoughs?
I recognize the opposite, I find that my sourdough breads are very difficult to get a golden brown coloring in them.

That is why I thought the dough would be perfect for a high-heat situation like a WFO running at 900+ degrees, the crust would not burn like typical bread flours burn.

[Essen1]

Essen,
You stated you see good browning characteristics with sourdoughs?
I recognize the opposite, I find that my sourdough breads are very difficult to get a golden brown coloring in them.

That is why I thought the dough would be perfect for a high-heat situation like a WFO running at 900+ degrees, the crust would not burn like typical bread flours burn.

There might be a difference when it comes to baking bread.

The observations I had in terms of pizza is that it did actually improve the crust coloration without adding a more additional sugar than the amount what I normally use. I had problems with the coloration for quite some time as I stated and tried to figure out in my NY-style project thread. At first I thought it was my oven but now with the addition of the starter things seem to improve.

Don't ask me why because I'm not a scientist 

However, I'm anxious to see if Tranman's pies will show the same thing.

EDIT: Typos

[Jackie Tran]

Mike, just wanted to confirm your findings about this particular starter and crust coloration.  I have only baked a few times with this particular starter and have noticed that it gives a deeper/darker crust coloration compared to my original starter. 
  Of course my method of baking is not consistent so that may also explain the differences.  I usually bake at a stone temp of 650-700 for 2 minutes.  I then take the pie up with the metal peel and angle an edge close to the top burner while it's running to darken the edge.  I rotate the pie and repeat until I get a golden brown color.  Often the thin walled big air bubbles on the top crust will burn.  So the inconsistency in my method is that I don't time the process of darkening the rim so realistically the time difference may be greater than I realize.  I usually darken the rim to just shy of charring if I can.  Of  course the bubbles get burnt but that is a sacrifice I'm willing to take.  So it's done by "feel" sort of speak and by visualization.
   I did note that when I did a starter challenge, both Gotrocks SD starter and your Raisen SD gave a similar and darker crust coloration compare to my own starter.  I know you've seen the pictures, but for those that haven't, they can be seen here..
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10811.0.html

Oh one more thought.  I was also surprise to get the coloration I did with GR's and the raisen starter b/c I used AP flour in the formulation for the purpose of testing crust coloration.   Using my own starter in the past, i would always get a much lighter looking crust when using AP flour b/c of the lower protein content.  I thought using AP for this test would accentuate the differences if there were any.  And that it did.

[Essen1]

TM,

From your findings it sounds like GR's starter and the SD starter perform in almost the same way. It would be interesting to see how both turn out if the baking regimen would be more consistent.

How was the taste?

[Jackie Tran]

TM,

From your findings it sounds like GR's starter and the SD starter perform in almost the same way. It would be interesting to see how both turn out if the baking regimen would be more consistent.

How was the taste?

Both tasted great.  Had nice flavor even after 1 day of ferment (8 hours room, 12 hours cold) due to the high starter amount 25%.  Both behave very similarly but had their differences.  The raisen start had a more sour taste and was just slightly breadier.  I bet if I lower the starter amount I  could get the texture I like. 

I'll redo the test this coming week with one batch of dough and then divide and add the starters. 

[GotRocks]

Any updates on the culture I sent out to you guys? how is it doing? any new statements or findings?

I just made a batch of sourdough pancakes with my culture on Monday, they rocked!! But I also had my own home-cured and smoked bacon to go with it, and locally produced maple syrup from this years sap collection too.
it was very nice treat to have after our cold weekend with the 4 inches of snow that we got.

[Jackie Tran]

GR, i've been using your SD Culture more than my own and the raisen one. It has good leavening and a great taste.  Last weekend I used it to make some really awesome waffles.

I made a batch of dough last night and use the raisen starter for a  taste test.  I'll post some pics in a day or so.

[GotRocks]

GR, i've been using your SD Culture more than my own and the raisen one. It has good leavening and a great taste.  Last weekend I used it to make some really awesome waffles.

I made a batch of dough last night and use the raisen starter for a  taste test.  I'll post some pics in a day or so.

I am glad to hear it. How was the texture on those waffles? I bet they were a bit on the rubbery side compared to a typical waffle. Well maybe not rubbery, just not as crisp and flaky as a typical waffle. I have always loved the flavor of that culture.
There is a long history with that starter, I am glad I could share it with some people that could appreciate it.
My pizza plans are done for this year, I never did get the financing I needed to get my WFO delivered and to do my leasehold improvements so we are going with "Plan-B" right now,  That means we are operating as a BBQ place only, But maybe we will have a spectacular summer and I will be able to self-finance and go back to plan-A starting in our slow springtime up here when most other places just close for a month.

[Jackie Tran]

GR, honestly they were the best waffles I've made and had.  I think I could have done it with any of my starters but I happened to be using the "GR starter".  Not at all rubbery and crispy and very light on the inside.  The look of the crumb was different than a normal waffle.  The crumb structure looked more like sourdough bread instead of the "white" bread look where the cell structure is uniform and tight.  I'm making them again this morning and see if I can't get a picture up.

Here's last night's pie with only 5% raisen starter.  This was another "experiment" thus the low starter %.  It was baked in my experimental outdoor ceramic oven.

[widespreadpizza]

TM,  that pizza looks right,  was that a room temp ferment?  -marc

[Jackie Tran]

TM,  that pizza looks right,  was that a room temp ferment?  -marc

Thanks Marc.  What makes you suspect that it was a room temp ferment?  Any telling signs or just an overall "feeling" that you get?  Or was it the 5% starter that gave it away?

Yes it was suppose to be a 24 hour room temp ferment.  I put it into the fridge after about 18 hours at room temp of 72F.

[widespreadpizza]

TM,  just the percent of starter  looks great to me.  -marc

[DenaliPete]

Essen do you mind posting the  quantities of sugar and water you used with this method?

I am very intrigued and had two fruits in my garden to choose from to attempt a starter.  I decided to go with tomatoes instead of the strawberries, just a gut decision. 

I used two tomatoes, a cup of warm water, and 1 teaspoon of sugar. 

I'd prefer though to know what is recommended from the book you have.

Thanks,

Peter

[Essen1]

Essen do you mind posting the  quantities of sugar and water you used with this method?

I am very intrigued and had two fruits in my garden to choose from to attempt a starter.  I decided to go with tomatoes instead of the strawberries, just a gut decision. 

I used two tomatoes, a cup of warm water, and 1 teaspoon of sugar. 

I'd prefer though to know what is recommended from the book you have.

Thanks,

Peter

Peter,

I apologize for the late reply but I just saw your question...

The quantities are as follows:

3/4 cup (4oz) seedless organic raisins
2 tsp natural cane sugar
1 cup filtered water

Those are the ingredients to get the fermentation started of the raisins so you can use the liquid later on.

[buceriasdon]

I my started my raisins soaking Sunday morning at 10 AM. Picture taken at 4PM Monday. Essen, I used 1 cup water, .75 cup raisins, and 2 tsp. sugar. Right? I wonder if I should transfer to a larger bowl and add water. I looked again at your photos and it doesn't look like you used as many raisins.
Don

[Essen1]

I my started my raisins soaking Sunday morning at 10 AM. Picture taken at 4PM Monday. Essen, I used 1 cup water, .75 cup raisins, and 2 tsp. sugar. Right? I wonder if I should transfer to a larger bowl and add water. I looked again at your photos and it doesn't look like you used as many raisins.
Don

Don,

The quantities look fine with me. I'd use a bigger bowl, though, but no more water.

Mike

[buceriasdon]

Thanks Essen, Done.
Don

Don,

The quantities look fine with me. I'd use a bigger bowl, though, but no more water.

Mike